Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?

[ctxak98]

I never was really a fan of Avatar being placed in Animal Kingdom. I do see the potential in rides and even atmospheric displays from the movie that could be quite entertaining. However, Animal Kingdom is focused on animals, and how they relate to cultures and we as people. I do understand and even like the thought of putting fictional legend based animals in the park. These would include things like unicorns, mermaids, yetis (already there), dragons, pegasus, hydras, minotaurs, sphinx, etc. These are legendary animals that have lasted and existed for centuries.

Avatar was a BIG movie, one of the biggest of all-time, though not the biggest when figuring for inflation. Also Avatar was helped by 3D showings as well as more movie theaters now then back in the day. Though it was big, did it affect culture? Is it often quoted? Did kids dress up as the aliens for Halloween? Not that I saw. Most saw it, were visually stunned, and that was that. It came, and went. It's not even comparable to the legendary movies like Star Wars, Godfather, Gone With the Wind and wizard of Oz for example. I saw the movie and can't name a single character by name from it.

Does it have to do with conservation? Yes, but that conservation is centered on an alien world, where as Animal Kingdom is very centered around Earth. Star Wars is a much bigger franchise then Avatar, that can't even be argued, but yet the Star wars characters are ignored in all of this. Star Wars had wookies, jawas, ewoks, and dozens of other races of aliens in those movies. Why aren't they being put in Animal Kingdom? Conservation is a huge message in Animal Kingdom, and in Avatar, but Wall-E a movie completely owned by Disney is as well. I'm not sure I'd see Wall-E as a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom, but I'd see it a lot sooner then I would Avatar.

Avatar's visuals were beautiful, and it would be interesting to see what Imagineering could do with it. Animal Kingdom though I feel isn't the place.
I see Animal Kingdom as a beautiful park, and though Avatar is beautiful, it'd be like sticking the Chrysler Building in the middle of Yosemite national Park. They just don't go together.

There are thousands of different animal species on earth, many that are surprisingly absent from Animal Kingdom. We'd represent Pandora before we represent...the oceans? We'd have big blue aliens I can't even remember the names of, but we wouldn't have a single species of bear, at all? We'd go out of our way for a movie like this, when we have a movie called the Jungle Book completely ignored? There is so much life on this one blue marble, we don't need to go after life elsewhere. The aliens from rthe movie aliens are far more iconic then anything from Pandora, besides her box. As I said earlier, the super significant legendary animals of fiction are fine, but Avatar isn't even remotely in those mythic animals leagues.

This is just my opinion though, and I'm sure many will hate it. i understand the drive for e tickets, but some of the most beloved and impactful rides in Disney history were just beautifully well done entertainment for the family. The scientists who work with the animals that need our protection do a heck of a lot of research and studies to improve habitats, and learn about diseases and injuries so we can help the animals out. If that doesn't interest you, go over to Hollywood Studios and ride Rock n Roller Coaster. I'm always floored by people who walk past animal habitats rolling their eyes or bored, never realizing the significance of seeing animals. Earth is what it is partly because of them. Rather then learn about them, or even just take time out to watch how they move, they assume they've seen all that life has to offer, and go wait in a long line for 2 minutes of speed, never rembering that there isn't a rollercoaster in the world that can mimic a Peregrine Falcons Dive, or a ride in Disney World faster then a Cheetahs run.

I think you have some good thoughts here but I think avatar is much different then star wars. I think of avatars creatures more like something youd see in journey to the center of the earth vs. some weird aliens. I think of them as animals not yet known....just like unicorns or dragons(even though I know they dont exist)...I use to love the thought of Beastly Kingdom at animal kingdom but recently Avatar has grown on me and I think it actually fits better...idk just my thought too! But your right It could not fit in many peoples eyes so Im right now just curious as to what will happen but I think disney should use it atleast somewhere

 

[Lee]

Wait...when did 74 become an insider?!

Since the beginning of time...

74 has inside connections like you wouldn't believe.

This.
The Spirit haunts some extremely lofty places.

I think Lee specifically has said that he's met '74 in person...

Frequently.
Actually, several posters around here have encounted the Spirit...even if they don't realize it.:lookaroun

...and confirmed he has rather formidable knowledge on the inner workings of the company. It would not surprise me if he knew some things about Avatarland.

Let nothing he says surprise you, or come into question.
He knows many things about many things.

I don't know how he knows or what position he's in to receive such info, but i imagine it's a pretty major position. I'd like to know a little more about him myself, but i don't wish to pry or anything in case he doesn't want everyone to know about him .

Prying won't help. He is a very private Spirit.

I trust him to know his stuff because other people who know their stuff also trust him.

Trust me on this: I dream of having the connections he has.

I'll take other people's words that 74 knows more than he lets on or allows himself to speak of on here... I'm sure his connections run deep...

Deep.

~There. That much flattery should easily earn me a ride in an Audi.:drevil:~

 

[yoda_5729]

Sorry if my other post was too long, I think a problem too I have with Avatar is it practically doesn't relate to Earth at all. With Expedition Everest the entire queue is lined with stuff from searches involving the yeti, or terrible tales of the yeti etc. That is actually true in human history, even if the animal isn't. The same goes for dragons and mermaids, and minotaurs from greek myths. Avatar as far as I know, doesn't even have a comic book.

Though I understand what an above person wrote in terms of Star Wars is more alien, whereas Avatar is more animal like, the single most major animal is the blue aliens. Those I don't see at all in Animal Kingdom. if that land were introduced in that park, it would be in a way opening Pandora's Box. Because now, any alien or fictional animal that could be on par with avatar should get consideration, when in fact there are hundreds if not thousands that are as significant as Avatar has been. I hardly think of these as noteworthy animals of myth, but speaking in terms of movie based, the flying monkeys from Wizard of Oz have a longer shelf life then Avatar has. I see it as kind of disrespectful to the other mythic characters of cultures to include Avatar and not dragons or pegasus.

Could Avatar be done in Hollywood Studios, absolutely. In fact Narnia was done there, and Narnia largely uses earth-based animals. If they wanted to focus more on the environment of Pandora, like those glowing flowers I could even more clearly see Pandora being part of Future World, or Tomorrowland.

If they want to add mythic, legendary characters to Animal Kingdom, I'm fine with that. Have a ride where you ride a dragon or a 3D movie with an attacking hydra. Or if they don't, then make Australia, the Oceans, the Polar regions, The Amazon, Madagascar, or any number of other places on earth.

In terms of legendary myth, Avatar to me is an also-ran. In terms of actual life, because it's mythic, it fails that test as well. In terms of promoting conservation it does have positives, but no more then Wall-E or Pocahontas. Many I've talked to have compared Avatar with Fern Gulley. In terms of a cool environment, it does get a high grade in that regard, but so too does Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Wizard of Oz, or countless other tales, legends, or movies. Also the only real contact the aliens in Avatar have with humans is combative, and it all takes place on Pandora. Even in the movie the aliens aren't viewed as a legendary race that has been known or believed to be known to man for centuries. So to me, overall it just doesn't seem to me as a good fit or anything Disney should have devoted a huge amount of money too. What's next, in Marvel comics, the mutants are a new dominant species on Earth. Maybe we'll have Wolverine the character in the park before we have an actual wolverine.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

Then maybe we can finally get that Star Wars park they've been teasing about D:

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Thanks for the clarification Lee!

I won't pry any at all, i'll respect his privacy and his wish for anonymity. I'll take your word that '74 knows his stuff and leave it at that. You've made it crystal clear that he's got incredible knowledge on the Disney company and its insides. That's enough for me. I had guessed from his posts and threads that he's got major insider info, even without confirmation.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustInTime
Wait...when did 74 become an insider?!

Since the beginning of time...

Hey, you calling me old? ... That's OK, you're right ... I think I'll be getting some color with my hair cut.


Quote:
Originally Posted by devoy1701
74 has inside connections like you wouldn't believe.

This.
The Spirit haunts some extremely lofty places.

So true and yet he's a Spirit of the people as well ... hell, he even stayed at a Red Roof Inn ONCE in Tallahassee ... and we'll never speak of that again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinTheGoat
I think Lee specifically has said that he's met '74 in person...

Frequently.
Actually, several posters around here have encounted the Spirit...even if they don't realize it.

The Spirit slips silently through planes of existence ... but when on such planes he always prefers First Class and two Bloody Marys prior to pushback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinTheGoat
...and confirmed he has rather formidable knowledge on the inner workings of the company. It would not surprise me if he knew some things about Avatarland.

Let nothing he says surprise you, or come into question.
He knows many things about many things.

So true ... I just need ya to tell that to Mother Spirit. Boy was she getting on my nerves this week with her 'why do you want to waste your time and money going to WDW when you'll be going to DLP next month?'' ... Come to think of it, maybe I was too harsh on her ... that sorta makes sense!:lol:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinTheGoat
I don't know how he knows or what position he's in to receive such info, but i imagine it's a pretty major position. I'd like to know a little more about him myself, but i don't wish to pry or anything in case he doesn't want everyone to know about him .

Prying won't help. He is a very private Spirit.

No prying will just turn around and bite the pryee (that ain't no word even at 2:45 ... love insomnia!) He also really appreciated the special 'offers' he gets from some fanbois ... but he'd prefer checks, cash or even yes, Disney Gift Cards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinTheGoat
I trust him to know his stuff because other people who know their stuff also trust him.

Trust me on this: I dream of having the connections he has.

You gots plenty of connections ... and you most certainly will have a spot on Team SPIRIT (wondering whether to do all caps, caps just for the second word etc.), which will open your doors to so many other connections that, to be fair, could lead DD to seek a D-I-V-O-R-C-E!:ROFLOL:


Quote:
Originally Posted by dxer07002
I'll take other people's words that 74 knows more than he lets on or allows himself to speak of on here... I'm sure his connections run deep...

Deep.

~There. That much flattery should easily earn me a ride in an Audi.:drevil:~

I think you've put tears in this old Spirit's weary eyes ... perhaps you might want to place this in that PI thread where my old pal JT has turned up (like a sore in your netheregions that you don't want anyone to know about!) perhaps feeling empowered by our recent troll's visit to take some shots.

But you ... YOU ... my friend ... have earned a spot in the passenger seat of that BRAND NEW A8!!!:king: We shall have to find a time when we can go for a drive, which may be sooner if I can't get a decent rate on an O-Town lodging.

~No, Mr. Disney Can Do No Wrong, I don't consider $114 for the Pop Century a great rate ... a great raping, perhaps!~

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the clarification Lee!

I won't pry any at all, i'll respect his privacy and his wish for anonymity. I'll take your word that '74 knows his stuff and leave it at that. You've made it crystal clear that he's got incredible knowledge on the Disney company and its insides. That's enough for me. I had guessed from his posts and threads that he's got major insider info, even without confirmation.

Mr. Goat since you gots questions, I'll make you a deal. See, I've spent most of today making plans to have a new car delivered (pretty easy after a SNAFU), trip plans for Europe (very easy!) and trying to make some for WDW (not so easy ... guess the Spirit was wrong and the 99% all are loaded and are spending it on Spring Break at WDW!)

So, I've missed a great deal of this thread and don't really have the time or energy to go back, so if you can sum up everything I've missed in say the last 5-6 pages here (and I see about that many have disappeared ... must have joined that Avenger at IOA where Marvel characters belong), I'll grant you a wish ... nope, that's genie stuff ... but I will answer you one question provided it isn't too personal.

~Emerald Green~

 

[blm07]

Don't be offended when you see my latest pop monstrosity. I'm strange, weird, shocking, odd, bizarre, I'm Frankenstein, I'm Avatar!

There's nothing too embarrassing, I'll honestly do anything!

 

[hack2112]

Spirit, the Red Roof in Tally?

That IS roughing it.

~Something something something something something punch line (I guess I'm just no good at this, then)~

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Mr. Goat since you gots questions, I'll make you a deal. See, I've spent most of today making plans to have a new car delivered (pretty easy after a SNAFU), trip plans for Europe (very easy!) and trying to make some for WDW (not so easy ... guess the Spirit was wrong and the 99% all are loaded and are spending it on Spring Break at WDW!)

So, I've missed a great deal of this thread and don't really have the time or energy to go back, so if you can sum up everything I've missed in say the last 5-6 pages here (and I see about that many have disappeared ... must have joined that Avenger at IOA where Marvel characters belong), I'll grant you a wish ... nope, that's genie stuff ... but I will answer you one question provided it isn't too personal.

~Emerald Green~

I really don't wish to pry or anything. When i said i wished i knew more about you, i was just saying it sort of in passing, like "he knows a lot, would be interesting to know him". I have no desire to invade your privacy or anything though. You don't owe me any questions.

But i'd be glad to attempt to summarize the mess that went on during the past several pages. Keyword being "attempt", looks like the mods had a deletion party on some of the posts. And there was a bit of a minor flamewar going on in regards to a certain member (who may have been banned). I will try, and it won't be in any particular order-

- AvengersWDW claiming people were evil for wanting TDO members fired
- AvengersWDW saying profit is up and that's all that should matter for Disney (or any corporation)
- Argument on Disney being profit vs quality, comparison to Apple
- "trolololololo" ~AvengersWDW
- Avengers saying you can't love the parks AND criticize them
- Avengers saying Walt would have eventually destroyed the company with his plans
- Avengers claiming the company was saved by dropping Walt's quality ideals
- Everyone else: "Yup, he's a troll, no more feeding it" (insert picture of three headed troll from Maelstrom)
*mods sweep posts* (though not all his quotes ironically)
- Discussing if there was any backlash for closing Jaws (compared to Mr Toad)
- "When Universal closes something, they replace it with something better"
- "When WDW closes something, they replace it with something worse or nothing at all"
- Universal upping standards with Hogwarts Express and Gringotts E Ticket
- Pondering what WDW would do next if this expansion were canned
- Pondering whether guests really NEED something familiar (movie character or pop culture) for an attraction to be a success
- Some wishing for Beastly Kingdom to come back
- Some wondering whether Disney will try to do an attraction based on John Carter
- Posts on whether Avatar was good or not
- "Yay it's canceled, hated it anyways"
- "Boo it's canceled, they won't replace it with anything else anyways, so lose-lose scenario"
- "Fix the things that exist before expanding" (refurbs, better Future World, Yeti, etc")
- Jungle Cruise desperately needs infrastructure repairs
- Comparing Disney of the past with Apple (quality vs disregard of quality for better profit)
- Walt similar to Steve Jobs, both willing to spend money to make money, knowing customers would pay for quality
- Hopes that Cars Land is a huge success and encourages Disney to spend more money
- Hope that John Lasseter would give attention to WDW (not just pixar stuff)
- Last page or so debating whether or not you're an insider

It was a bit messy because that Avengers guy had all his posts deleted, but i tried to piece together what happened during the last bunch of pages. The mods seem to have missed the quotes of people responding to him!:lol:

If you don't wish to answer this, don't. I won't ask for any personal information. But i will ask for a personal opinion on something-

In your opinion based on your knowledge of the company, is there any hope for a brighter future at WDW like how it used to be run (before the quality dropoff)? Stuff such as maintenance, major new attractions, and general quality of show. Or do you think they'll just continue to disregard quality forever in favor of profit?

 

[TP2000]

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement...

Not a single kid came trick-or-treating at my door this year dressed as an Avatar character. Not a single one.

I live in a typical Orange County suburban neighborhood where the parents try and outdo each other over everything related to their kids; clothes, sports, hobbies, cars, vacations, etc. And Halloween in my kid-crazy neighborhood is also a competition for hip costumes and showmanship. And not a single child showed up at my door as a peaceful blue alien or mean capitalist human from Avatar. Tons of kids this year were dressed as Star Wars, Harry Potter, Phineas & Ferb, Disney Princesses, comic book superheros, etc. But no Avatar. :lookaroun

The kids don't seem to care about Avatar, and if the kids don't like it, who is going to bug the parents to spend thousands on a Disney World vacation to go to Avatarland? :veryconfu

My hunch is the post-announcement consumer research on all of this has revealed exactly what any normal American could have told Burbank execs just by looking at what the trick-or-treaters at your door every Halloween are wearing.

Avatarland was a boneheaded decision right from the start, but at least they are rethinking it and retrenching.

 

[The Duck]

While I hated the film and was skeptical about how and why "Avatarland" would fit in DAK, I tried to have an open mind about the project and was willing to wait until concept art was released before I made a final judgement. With that said, I have to agree wholeheartedly with almost everything that Yoda_5729 said in his/her previous posts. Now Spirit is suggesting that the plug may be pulled in the near future and I have to admit that I'm relieved. I think that we all realize that if Avatar goes away it may be a very long time before something else steps to the plate but why risk an investment of this size on a franchise that probably won't survive the test of time? IMHO, I think that they should focus on the animal theme of the existing park and grow from there. There are currently only 4 zoos in America with giant pandas (San Diego, Atlanta, Memphis and National Zoo in Wash. D.C.). While expensive to obtain ($10 million for a pair for a 10 year contract), and their exhibit will have to be mostly indoors and air-conditioned, the total price tag will still be less than Avatar and they would still draw a crowd not to mention a fortune in t-shirt and toy sales. As far as other attractions are concerned, maybe a Mulan themed area with a Mushu coaster.

 

[Duckberg]

Star Wars @ WDW Avatar Land @ WDW :hurl:

 

[Mickey92]

If it's cancelled, I will be quite happy because I wasn't really a fan of the idea of the land!

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

It's funny how everyone is focusing on the cancellation itself and not on the reasoning '74 gave. It doesn't disturb anyone in the least that Disney was, once again, unwilling to chime in with the proper funding for a potential project? After the mess they're fixing with DCA, WDSP, HKDL and they still can't find it in themselves to justify that it takes spending money to make some back? I think we all should reserve our "relief" (to those that are happy about it to begin with). Just look where we are if the company mentality is flushing every project down the toilet due to budgeting.

 

[misterID]

It's funny how everyone is focusing on the cancellation itself and not on the reasoning '74 gave. It doesn't disturb anyone in the least that Disney was, once again, unwilling to chime in with the proper funding for a potential project? After the mess they're fixing with DCA, WDSP, HKDL and they still can't find it in themselves to justify that it takes spending money to make some back? I think we all should reserve our "relief" (to those that are happy about it to begin with). Just look where we are if the company mentality is flushing every project down the toilet due to budgeting.

Great post. People still can't see the forest for the trees. You can hold on to your Beastly Kingdom dreams all you want. It is NEVER going to happen.

I wasn't a fan of Harry Potter, but the ride is spectacular. And people are actually cheering the fact that AK isn't going to get more than one state of the art attractions (according to James, who I believe, as he does not settle for mediocrity) because they want the land saved for something else... Or Avatar isn't Disney enough, or they don't like the movie... A great ride, is a great ride.

If you saw the list of things that were planned for WDW but were rejected by TDO it would make your head explode.

Congrats fanboys, here's to another decade of mediocrity. :brick:

 

[PirateFrank]

It's funny how everyone is focusing on the cancellation itself and not on the reasoning '74 gave. It doesn't disturb anyone in the least that Disney was, once again, unwilling to chime in with the proper funding for a potential project? After the mess they're fixing with DCA, WDSP, HKDL and they still can't find it in themselves to justify that it takes spending money to make some back? I think we all should reserve our "relief" (to those that are happy about it to begin with). Just look where we are if the company mentality is flushing every project down the toilet due to budgeting.

It's not just budget. Spirit also said this:

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement.

Also from that first initial statement, there also appears to be a creative dispute over the flagship attraction. Cameron and Disney seem to be at odds over the types of attractions in this land. Does cost factor into that? absolutely....likely significantly.

But there are other issues at play here.

Lets not ring all of the klaxons yet. I personally think that AvatarLand's cancelation is the best thing that could happen to Disney. Someone in TDO, WDI or TWDC finally said "wait, perhaps the build it and they will come philosophy isn't the right idea here"

 

[misterID]

It's not just budget. Spirit also said this:



Also from that first initial statement, there also appears to be a creative dispute over the flagship attraction. Cameron and Disney seem to be at odds over the types of attractions in this land. Does cost factor into that? absolutely....likely significantly.

But there are other issues at play here.

Lets not ring all of the klaxons yet. I personally think that AvatarLand's cancelation is the best thing that could happen to Disney. Someone in TDO, WDI or TWDC finally said "wait, perhaps the build it and they will come philosophy isn't the right idea here"

This is hilarious.

This is why you guys will never get your precious Star Wars land. Or any kind of LOTR's land. And why UNI is laughing all the way to the bank with HP, instead of Disney. Who would want to work with them?

I seem to remember people saying what a disaster HP was going to be for UNI. That the franchise was weak. The land would be lame. they hated the movie. Thank God Disney didn't get it and all that.

Anything you build is a risk. But as Potterland showed, if it's a great ride, people will want to ride it.

AvatarLand was a big investment from the start, perhaps they go in over their heads. But this is an AWFUL situation.

And if you didn't like the prospect fo an AvatarLand in Disney, here's a nice remedy.... Don't go into it.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Also from that first initial statement, there also appears to be a creative dispute over the flagship attraction. Cameron and Disney seem to be at odds over the types of attractions in this land. Does cost factor into that? absolutely....likely significantly.

Also proving my point. Disney Imagineering themselves offering something most of us expected anyway (meaning = not in the least surprising) while Cameron wanted something without precedent. That's not exactly painting Disney in a brighter light.

And about the public awareness, it seems like an afterthought to justify the lack of enthusiasm about spending money. Knowing Disney of 2012, do you really think they'd have a problem infusing a franchise into the park just because of lukewarm reception? They'd throw everything and the kitchen sink to ensure people "got" the franchise and spent loads as a result. This, to me, smells like another case of Disney going the cheap way.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I agree with this being disturbing (though not at all surprised really). I mean, i was never much of a fan of the Avatar expansion concept in the first place. HOWEVER, it was something. Something being more than what we had before or likely will have if canned (nothing). I wished for it to succeed and didn't want it to fail unless a better attraction could be made instead. In the right hands, it has tons of potential if given proper budget and thought (which Disney sadly is not likely to do in this day and age). On the assumption the expansion does indeed get canceled, i doubt Disney will try to replace it with another major new attraction. So i can't be happy about this, even if i was somewhat skeptical about it being good.

At any rate, yes i am disturbed by this. It's pretty silly that Disney would even team up with Cameron in the first place knowing that he would demand serious perfection in a theme park experience. Did they not realize that his ideas of all things would require them to spend money?:brick:

So i take one thing out of this topic and 74's statement- Either we'll get a likely disappointing and watered down Avatar experience, or we'll get nothing at all. I hope i'm wrong on either chance. But if i'm not, it's a lose-lose scenario for everyone IMO.