Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?

[anonDisney]

Like most everything else - we will never know if it gets cancelled.

I'm not sure if this is serious or a joke.

I'm pretty sure we will know it was cancelled if an Avatar land never shows up at the Animal Kingdom...

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm not sure if this is serious or a joke.

I'm pretty sure we will know it was cancelled if an Avatar land never shows up at the Animal Kingdom...

You're technically right, but what he probably meant is that Disney likely won't ever actually come out and confirm it's not going to happen. If it is canned, it will just never be built and the company heads likely won't ever speak of it (except perhaps from imagineers later down the road talking about plans and such). We'll probably know from insiders however well in advance if it's scrapped.

Granted though i'm not knowledgeable on how Disney handles cancellations of attractions on a public relations basis. I just can't see them coming out and saying something is canned (unless they think they can outdo what was originally intended or something). They wouldn't want to admit they massively screwed up and bit off more than they were willing to chew.

 

[SyracuseOrange]

Does anyone think there's a chance that Universal will scoop this concept if Disney cancels it?

 

[Choodles]

If Avatar is canceled there will be no expansion!

 

[twebber55]

Does anyone think there's a chance that Universal will scoop this concept if Disney cancels it?

this was my first thought...
im still shocked people would rather have nothing than have an Avatar/Pandora land...im disappointed and frankly so are my 11 and 13 year old kids when i told them the news last night

 

[xdan0920]

Does anyone think there's a chance that Universal will scoop this concept if Disney cancels it?

Nope.

Because....

The problem with Avatar in this regard is that there is no realistic way to actually make that environment believable in a theme park setting. Harry Potter is MADE for a theme park. Everything is doable and recognizable. They can tell their guests to expect to visit the Wizarding World of Harry Potter and that is what the guest gets. They walk into Hogsmeade and see the castle and go in the shops just like they saw in the films. They fulfill that expectation. That is practically impossible with Avatar. There are too many structural and operational realities for a convincing Pandora to be made on the scale TDO was talking about.

I may be wrong, of course, but that translation from screen to reality is a real hurdle, and because this was all an executive driven decision, with little to no creative suggestion involved, they promised something they in the end won't be able to deliver.

Besides, USO is already making progress towards expanding the WWoHP. Why do they need to get tied up in the mess that is Avatar?

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Sorry to keep on ranting but you know, I'm just not buying into this whole "it just wasn't possible" notion either. It didn't seem possible to recreate a mountain but they went and built the Matterhorn. No one thought DL could be topped and then they gave us DLP. I recall reading the submarines were too problematic to operate but they still managed to bring those back to life. Simulating space travel was far-fetched for the average joe yet they gave us Mission: Space. I thought the whole point of Disneyland was that it was "fun to do the impossible". What happened to that notion?

 

[zooey]

this was my first thought...
im still shocked people would rather have nothing than have an Avatar/Pandora land...im disappointed and frankly so are my 11 and 13 year old kids when i told them the news last night

Why did you do that? It's not a for sure thing... it's conjecture at this point.

 

[Florida_is_hot]

My 2 Cents, Avatar is a largely forgotten film.

Universal has Waterworld show and people go in and say what is Waterworld.
Avatar if it is built would be the same 5 years from now, what was Avatar.

But I think the really issue is Disney does not want to invest in their parks.

Got the Fantasyland expansion .... slowed that project to a crawl, so much for opening for the big 40th year party. Disney may not build anything big for years and why should they, Disney fans are like Apple fans they do not go a way. They give people the same thing year and year and Disney knows people will be back.

 

[zooey]

Does anyone think there's a chance that Universal will scoop this concept if Disney cancels it?

I remember hearing that Universal wasn't that interested in it beyond a single attraction. It wasn't going to get a land, or anything.

 

[Jeff456]

Obviously this is just a rumour.. but I would not be too disapointed if it was cancelled... it is nice to see AK get some expansion but so long as money is still spent I am not too fussed about Avatar... I don't think it will fit in well anyway. However I would rather have Avatar than nothing... I to am not a fan of Harry Potter at Universal and the rediculous crowds it creates, but forbidden journey is a fantastic attraction and if Disney created an attraction even half as good it would be a major boost to AK!

 

[devoy1701]

I really don't wish to pry or anything. When i said i wished i knew more about you, i was just saying it sort of in passing, like "he knows a lot, would be interesting to know him". I have no desire to invade your privacy or anything though. You don't owe me any questions.

But i'd be glad to attempt to summarize the mess that went on during the past several pages. Keyword being "attempt", looks like the mods had a deletion party on some of the posts. And there was a bit of a minor flamewar going on in regards to a certain member (who may have been banned). I will try, and it won't be in any particular order-

- AvengersWDW claiming people were evil for wanting TDO members fired
- AvengersWDW saying profit is up and that's all that should matter for Disney (or any corporation)
- Argument on Disney being profit vs quality, comparison to Apple
- "trolololololo" ~AvengersWDW
- Avengers saying you can't love the parks AND criticize them
- Avengers saying Walt would have eventually destroyed the company with his plans
- Avengers claiming the company was saved by dropping Walt's quality ideals
- Everyone else: "Yup, he's a troll, no more feeding it" (insert picture of three headed troll from Maelstrom)
*mods sweep posts* (though not all his quotes ironically)
- Discussing if there was any backlash for closing Jaws (compared to Mr Toad)
- "When Universal closes something, they replace it with something better"
- "When WDW closes something, they replace it with something worse or nothing at all"
- Universal upping standards with Hogwarts Express and Gringotts E Ticket
- Pondering what WDW would do next if this expansion were canned
- Pondering whether guests really NEED something familiar (movie character or pop culture) for an attraction to be a success
- Some wishing for Beastly Kingdom to come back
- Some wondering whether Disney will try to do an attraction based on John Carter
- Posts on whether Avatar was good or not
- "Yay it's canceled, hated it anyways"
- "Boo it's canceled, they won't replace it with anything else anyways, so lose-lose scenario"
- "Fix the things that exist before expanding" (refurbs, better Future World, Yeti, etc")
- Jungle Cruise desperately needs infrastructure repairs
- Comparing Disney of the past with Apple (quality vs disregard of quality for better profit)
- Walt similar to Steve Jobs, both willing to spend money to make money, knowing customers would pay for quality
- Hopes that Cars Land is a huge success and encourages Disney to spend more money
- Hope that John Lasseter would give attention to WDW (not just pixar stuff)
- Last page or so debating whether or not you're an insider

It was a bit messy because that Avengers guy had all his posts deleted, but i tried to piece together what happened during the last bunch of pages. The mods seem to have missed the quotes of people responding to him!:lol:

If you don't wish to answer this, don't. I won't ask for any personal information. But i will ask for a personal opinion on something-

In your opinion based on your knowledge of the company, is there any hope for a brighter future at WDW like how it used to be run (before the quality dropoff)? Stuff such as maintenance, major new attractions, and general quality of show. Or do you think they'll just continue to disregard quality forever in favor of profit?

Bolded part made me laugh out loud Merlin... Great summary. Looks like he was banned after last night.

Sorry to keep on ranting but you know, I'm just not buying into this whole "it just wasn't possible" notion either. It didn't seem possible to recreate a mountain but they went and built the Matterhorn. No one thought DL could be topped and then they gave us DLP. I recall reading the submarines were too problematic to operate but they still managed to bring those back to life. Simulating space travel was far-fetched for the average joe yet they gave us Mission: Space. I thought the whole point of Disneyland was that it was "fun to do the impossible". What happened to that notion?

I 100% agree and don't buy it as a valid excuse. I especially thought this when one poster awhile back said that Pandora wasn't possible to recreate in a Theme Park world but Harry Potter's world is perfectly acceptable to be created. I'm sure it could have been done and been done well. You have to let go of reality a bit when it comes to these themed lands. As you said with the Matterhorn, does anyone really that there is a 200ft snow capped mountain sitting in the middle of Anahiem? No, but it doesn't matter because your imagination lets you accept it's there. With Pirates are we really in the middle of a Pirate ambush on a small island town in the Spanish Main? Of course not, but they did a great job with the effects.

If the budget is right, Pandora can be created and I bet it will be great. But if Disney isn't willing to put up the budget and wants to rely on 10 year old tech to recreate the world just with screens, I would prefer that they just don't do it.

 

[lebeau]

My 2 Cents, Avatar is a largely forgotten film.

Universal has Waterworld show and people go in and say what is Waterworld.
Avatar if it is built would be the same 5 years from now, what was Avatar.

Comparing the highest grossing movie of all time to one of the most notorious flops of the 1990's is the funniest thing I have read all week. Thank you.

:ROFLOL:

 

[misterID]

Comparing the highest grossing movie of all time to one of the most notorious flops of the 1990's is the funniest thing I have read all week. Thank you.

:ROFLOL:

Hey, Waterworld did eventually make a profit.

 

[devoy1701]

Hey, Waterworld did eventually make a profit.

I enjoyed it as much as any epic, end of the world, Costner film. I'm still holding out for a GMR scene of the Postman featuring Costner and Tom Petty hanging out on the Hoover Dam. :lookaroun

 

[lebeau]

Hey, Waterworld did eventually make a profit.

Yeah, it was eventually profitable. I even debated using the word "flop". But perception is reality. Waterworld was and is viewed as a notorious flop even if the box office paints a slightly sunnier picture.

Point being that while Avatar may not currently be at the peak of its cultural relevance, comparing it to Waterworld (or just about any other movie that was not at one point the most popular movie in history) is silly.

 

[Rasvar]

It's funny how everyone is focusing on the cancellation itself and not on the reasoning '74 gave. It doesn't disturb anyone in the least that Disney was, once again, unwilling to chime in with the proper funding for a potential project? After the mess they're fixing with DCA, WDSP, HKDL and they still can't find it in themselves to justify that it takes spending money to make some back? I think we all should reserve our "relief" (to those that are happy about it to begin with). Just look where we are if the company mentality is flushing every project down the toilet due to budgeting.

I agree completely with this. Euro Disney's shadow still hangs over the company. After such a magnificent flop (Disney really failed geography in this case. It should have been built in Germany), they gutted the creative class within the company. Every project is now play it safe. You can't afford a "spectacular failure". If it is going to fail, it has to fail on a tight budget. Screw taking the risk of a spectacular success.

 

[Lee]

Does anyone think there's a chance that Universal will scoop this concept if Disney cancels it?

Nope. Nary a chance at all of that happening.

If Avatar is canceled there will be no expansion!

Quite possibly true, at least in the short term.

Why did you do that? It's not a for sure thing... it's conjecture at this point.

True. It is the hot water-cooler talk around the themed entertainment community at the moment, and certainly at Disney.
But....it could all be nothing. Maybe it's just an intentional leak to cause a problem. Maybe it's a power-play from one side to gain an advantage over the other.
Many possibilities to consider at this point.

If it is going to fail, it has to fail on a tight budget. Screw taking the risk of a spectacular success.

Yep.
As one of my frustrated WDI friends likes to say, "Universal swings for the fence and Disney bunts."

 

[twebber55]

"Universal swings for the fence and Disney bunts."

just my opinion but when you re the big dog you can afford to bunt and when you re trying to play catch up you have to swing for the fences maybe thats whats going on right now

 

[lebeau]

"Universal swings for the fence and Disney bunts."

just my opinion but when you re the big dog you can afford to bunt and when you re trying to play catch up you have to swing for the fences maybe thats whats going on right now

Well, yeah. But no one likes the all-star player who constantly bunts. The fans cheer for the scrappy underdog swinging for the fences.