Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
74 is the only one to come in here and give any sort of inkling that this project is on life support... I'm guessing Lee doesn't have solid information, that is why he hasn't posted...
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Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?
- Thread starter pheneix
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74 is the only one to come in here and give any sort of inkling that this project is on life support... I'm guessing Lee doesn't have solid information, that is why he hasn't posted...
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
Wait...when did 74 become an insider?!
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
74 has inside connections like you wouldn't believe.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I think Lee specifically has said that he's met '74 in person and confirmed he has rather formidable knowledge on the inner workings of the company. It would not surprise me if he knew some things about Avatarland.
I don't know how he knows or what position he's in to receive such info, but i imagine it's a pretty major position. I'd like to know a little more about him myself, but i don't wish to pry or anything in case he doesn't want everyone to know about him. I trust him to know his stuff because other people who know their stuff also trust him.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Well, he did mention before anyone else that Jaws was going bye bye... And he has mentioned a few other things, I can't recall... I'll take other people's words that 74 knows more than he lets on or allows himself to speak of on here... I'm sure his connections run deep...
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
I have been a member for a while and I never knew him to be an "insider". This is the first I have noticed. I guess I better start paying attention.
zooey
Well-Known Member
I didn't mean for AK. I just meant that a significant land or attraction could be centered around the property elsewhere.
AvengersWDW
Banned
Oh I don't know; he appears to be a spectre of his former self now....
Yeah because anyone who likes WDW is somehow a banned member...got to love the logic of the people here
CaptJapan
Member
Then wishing on a star, really works!
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
I understand why they won't, but I wish Disney would just officially announce if it's canceled or not. This is kinda driving me nuts...:hammer:
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Actually, Apple really has no divisions. They look at whether Apple as a whole is making money. This is how Walt Disney World was run. Now every square foot is analyzed to make sure it is in of itself making profit. This we get a "cinema" on Main Street, USA, guest space at Future World turned into special events space. Acres sold off here and there. All of those little things that actually create magic.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
If there is a thought that Walt was not a businessman, there is a person who has not read some of the unauthorized biographies. He was very similar to Steve Jobs, a risk taker and innovator with a keen eye for what will make money while insisting on quality. His plan for Florida was never a bunch of theme parks and hotels as much as it was suppose to be an a heart of American industry and research. It was going to be a huge gamble that, yes, could have bankrupted the company if it failed. Society changed a lot from the time it was announced, though to the early 70's. I suspect he would have seen the societal shift from trusting industry to being wary of it and maybe have gone in a different direction. Steve Jobs himself went through many changes in the way he did things. Where Walt would not have been happy is how quality of the experience and standards have dropped. There are very few visionaries who have both business sense and the ability to innovate on a regular basis. As far as Apple goes, I would not be surprised to see them experience what happened to Disney in the 70's. Jobs will not be easy to replace.
Companies are in the business of making profits but times have also changed that stockholders only care about maximizing the numbers . Walt never really had to deal with stockholders. He would have had problems with current corporate structure. Let's not forget that Roy did a heck of a job holding things together at times.
Now beyond the old WWWD stuff. One of the only people high up in Disney I have confidence in right now is John Lasseter. Until he starts to get involved with WDW (and I am not talking about just bringing in Pixar because I think he is capable of moving beyond that), I don't feel there a large amount of creativity at the top. But, as long as the profits are moving in, there is going to be no pressure to change that. DL has become my preferred Disney experience since it has recovered from Cynthia Harris and her reign of destruction. Ten years ago, DL was becoming a dump and WDW was the star. Now it is flipped. Granted, WDW is not nearly as desolate as DL was by a mile. I shudder to think it could ever get there. But WDW management needs a major flush. Frank Wells loss followed by the strong decline in Richard Nunis's (can't use his common name because it gets filtered) influence in the '90s until he retired created a vacuum that was filled by Cynthia Harris types. And this is a long way around to say that there is a complete lack of vision at the top of the company that would never allow a collaboration like the one that would be needed with Cameron on Avatar to come to a successful fruition since they lack the vision and ability to take risks that can not be calculated on a spreadsheet by an MBA fresh out of college.
PS: Sorry this is so long. I am an academic by trade so I tend to be a windbag.
Companies are in the business of making profits but times have also changed that stockholders only care about maximizing the numbers . Walt never really had to deal with stockholders. He would have had problems with current corporate structure. Let's not forget that Roy did a heck of a job holding things together at times.
Now beyond the old WWWD stuff. One of the only people high up in Disney I have confidence in right now is John Lasseter. Until he starts to get involved with WDW (and I am not talking about just bringing in Pixar because I think he is capable of moving beyond that), I don't feel there a large amount of creativity at the top. But, as long as the profits are moving in, there is going to be no pressure to change that. DL has become my preferred Disney experience since it has recovered from Cynthia Harris and her reign of destruction. Ten years ago, DL was becoming a dump and WDW was the star. Now it is flipped. Granted, WDW is not nearly as desolate as DL was by a mile. I shudder to think it could ever get there. But WDW management needs a major flush. Frank Wells loss followed by the strong decline in Richard Nunis's (can't use his common name because it gets filtered) influence in the '90s until he retired created a vacuum that was filled by Cynthia Harris types. And this is a long way around to say that there is a complete lack of vision at the top of the company that would never allow a collaboration like the one that would be needed with Cameron on Avatar to come to a successful fruition since they lack the vision and ability to take risks that can not be calculated on a spreadsheet by an MBA fresh out of college.
PS: Sorry this is so long. I am an academic by trade so I tend to be a windbag.
asianway
Well-Known Member
I'm still waiting for the Crime Stoppers announcement-it may be a while
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
Looks like I will be doing some reading tomorrow to get a deeper understanding. What I simply meant though was regardless of the company structure, projects do still need to get greenlit and funded and individuals do have responsibilities to certain areas or products/offerings. Apple focuses on the end result though as you say here, and by making sure they offer the best possible customer experience they can.
Chasing profit isn't a bad thing either. No one here is demonizing that. But there are many ways to get to those results.
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
If there is a thought that Walt was not a businessman, there is a person who has not read some of the unauthorized biographies. He was very similar to Steve Jobs, a risk taker and innovator with a keen eye for what will make money while insisting on quality. His plan for Florida was never a bunch of theme parks and hotels as much as it was suppose to be an a heart of American industry and research. It was going to be a huge gamble that, yes, could have bankrupted the company if it failed. Society changed a lot from the time it was announced, though to the early 70's. I suspect he would have seen the societal shift from trusting industry to being wary of it and maybe have gone in a different direction. Steve Jobs himself went through many changes in the way he did things. Where Walt would not have been happy is how quality of the experience and standards have dropped. There are very few visionaries who have both business sense and the ability to innovate on a regular basis. As far as Apple goes, I would not be surprised to see them experience what happened to Disney in the 70's. Jobs will not be easy to replace.
Companies are in the business of making profits but times have also changed that stockholders only care about maximizing the numbers . Walt never really had to deal with stockholders. He would have had problems with current corporate structure. Let's not forget that Roy did a heck of a job holding things together at times.
Now beyond the old WWWD stuff. One of the only people high up in Disney I have confidence in right now is John Lasseter. Until he starts to get involved with WDW (and I am not talking about just bringing in Pixar because I think he is capable of moving beyond that), I don't feel there a large amount of creativity at the top. But, as long as the profits are moving in, there is going to be no pressure to change that. DL has become my preferred Disney experience since it has recovered from Cynthia Harris and her reign of destruction. Ten years ago, DL was becoming a dump and WDW was the star. Now it is flipped. Granted, WDW is not nearly as desolate as DL was by a mile. I shudder to think it could ever get there. But WDW management needs a major flush. Frank Wells loss followed by the strong decline in Richard Nunis's (can't use his common name because it gets filtered) influence in the '90s until he retired created a vacuum that was filled by Cynthia Harris types. And this is a long way around to say that there is a complete lack of vision at the top of the company that would never allow a collaboration like the one that would be needed with Cameron on Avatar to come to a successful fruition since they lack the vision and ability to take risks that can not be calculated on a spreadsheet by an MBA fresh out of college.
PS: Sorry this is so long. I am an academic by trade so I tend to be a windbag.
Great post, no apologies necessary! :wave:
AvengersWDW
Banned
If there is a thought that Walt was not a businessman, there is a person who has not read some of the unauthorized biographies. He was very similar to Steve Jobs, a risk taker and innovator with a keen eye for what will make money while insisting on quality. His plan for Florida was never a bunch of theme parks and hotels as much as it was suppose to be an a heart of American industry and research. It was going to be a huge gamble that, yes, could have bankrupted the company if it failed. Society changed a lot from the time it was announced, though to the early 70's. I suspect he would have seen the societal shift from trusting industry to being wary of it and maybe have gone in a different direction. Steve Jobs himself went through many changes in the way he did things. Where Walt would not have been happy is how quality of the experience and standards have dropped. There are very few visionaries who have both business sense and the ability to innovate on a regular basis. As far as Apple goes, I would not be surprised to see them experience what happened to Disney in the 70's. Jobs will not be easy to replace.
Companies are in the business of making profits but times have also changed that stockholders only care about maximizing the numbers . Walt never really had to deal with stockholders. He would have had problems with current corporate structure. Let's not forget that Roy did a heck of a job holding things together at times.
Now beyond the old WWWD stuff. One of the only people high up in Disney I have confidence in right now is John Lasseter. Until he starts to get involved with WDW (and I am not talking about just bringing in Pixar because I think he is capable of moving beyond that), I don't feel there a large amount of creativity at the top. But, as long as the profits are moving in, there is going to be no pressure to change that. DL has become my preferred Disney experience since it has recovered from Cynthia Harris and her reign of destruction. Ten years ago, DL was becoming a dump and WDW was the star. Now it is flipped. Granted, WDW is not nearly as desolate as DL was by a mile. I shudder to think it could ever get there. But WDW management needs a major flush. Frank Wells loss followed by the strong decline in Richard Nunis's (can't use his common name because it gets filtered) influence in the '90s until he retired created a vacuum that was filled by Cynthia Harris types. And this is a long way around to say that there is a complete lack of vision at the top of the company that would never allow a collaboration like the one that would be needed with Cameron on Avatar to come to a successful fruition since they lack the vision and ability to take risks that can not be calculated on a spreadsheet by an MBA fresh out of college.
PS: Sorry this is so long. I am an academic by trade so I tend to be a windbag.
I am curious how Walt would of dealt with stockholders...
The fact is, both Walt and Jobs were never afraid of spending money to make money. They realized that customers will pay for quality, and that sometimes spending more can actually ADD value. I could go out and buy a $199 tablet, but I'm completely wasting my money if it doesn't do what I need it to do - or - I can buy an iPad for $499 and have it literally be an extension of my being.
I don't know that it's possible to have that mentality anymore in business due to the shareholders wanting their profits at any cost. I firmly believe Avatar was the final straw that led Iger heading for the door. From reading between the lines, there was a major chasm developing between his philosophy and the interests of the shareholders and, if he hadn't left, he would have been shown the door sooner rather than later. While I didn't like the amount he was throwing at Avatar, we don't know what else he might have added if the shareholders would have just gotten out of his way. Avatar might have been just the tip of the iceberg. After all, this is the guy who greenlit CarsLand, the CA renewal, the FLE and Shanghai (not to mention buying Pixar). Say what you will about him, but the guy has shown time and time again that he knows you have to spend money to make money.
My only hope is that CarsLand is a monstrous success and will show the bean counters how much money they could be making if they'd loosen up the wallets and let imagineering do what they're good at. Unfortunately, with Cars 2 somewhat of a dud, Radiator Springs being minimized in the movie and Potter opening at Uni Ca in a couple of years, it may not be the success it could have been.
I don't know that it's possible to have that mentality anymore in business due to the shareholders wanting their profits at any cost. I firmly believe Avatar was the final straw that led Iger heading for the door. From reading between the lines, there was a major chasm developing between his philosophy and the interests of the shareholders and, if he hadn't left, he would have been shown the door sooner rather than later. While I didn't like the amount he was throwing at Avatar, we don't know what else he might have added if the shareholders would have just gotten out of his way. Avatar might have been just the tip of the iceberg. After all, this is the guy who greenlit CarsLand, the CA renewal, the FLE and Shanghai (not to mention buying Pixar). Say what you will about him, but the guy has shown time and time again that he knows you have to spend money to make money.
My only hope is that CarsLand is a monstrous success and will show the bean counters how much money they could be making if they'd loosen up the wallets and let imagineering do what they're good at. Unfortunately, with Cars 2 somewhat of a dud, Radiator Springs being minimized in the movie and Potter opening at Uni Ca in a couple of years, it may not be the success it could have been.
ctxak98
Well-Known Member
I think losing this opportunity is going to be bad just because if Disney doesnt do atleast something with it(AND IM PRAYING THEY DO) (I know...im one of the few excited) That universal will step in and take it now that they are on a High eneergy train attacking other theme parks. Then they will have POTTER and AVATAR....To me that won't look good for disney. Im not saying that will forsure happen but I can see that happening.:lookaroun
yoda_5729
Well-Known Member
I never was really a fan of Avatar being placed in Animal Kingdom. I do see the potential in rides and even atmospheric displays from the movie that could be quite entertaining. However, Animal Kingdom is focused on animals, and how they relate to cultures and we as people. I do understand and even like the thought of putting fictional legend based animals in the park. These would include things like unicorns, mermaids, yetis (already there), dragons, pegasus, hydras, minotaurs, sphinx, etc. These are legendary animals that have lasted and existed for centuries.
Avatar was a BIG movie, one of the biggest of all-time, though not the biggest when figuring for inflation. Also Avatar was helped by 3D showings as well as more movie theaters now then back in the day. Though it was big, did it affect culture? Is it often quoted? Did kids dress up as the aliens for Halloween? Not that I saw. Most saw it, were visually stunned, and that was that. It came, and went. It's not even comparable to the legendary movies like Star Wars, Godfather, Gone With the Wind and wizard of Oz for example. I saw the movie and can't name a single character by name from it.
Does it have to do with conservation? Yes, but that conservation is centered on an alien world, where as Animal Kingdom is very centered around Earth. Star Wars is a much bigger franchise then Avatar, that can't even be argued, but yet the Star wars characters are ignored in all of this. Star Wars had wookies, jawas, ewoks, and dozens of other races of aliens in those movies. Why aren't they being put in Animal Kingdom? Conservation is a huge message in Animal Kingdom, and in Avatar, but Wall-E a movie completely owned by Disney is as well. I'm not sure I'd see Wall-E as a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom, but I'd see it a lot sooner then I would Avatar.
Avatar's visuals were beautiful, and it would be interesting to see what Imagineering could do with it. Animal Kingdom though I feel isn't the place.
I see Animal Kingdom as a beautiful park, and though Avatar is beautiful, it'd be like sticking the Chrysler Building in the middle of Yosemite national Park. They just don't go together.
There are thousands of different animal species on earth, many that are surprisingly absent from Animal Kingdom. We'd represent Pandora before we represent...the oceans? We'd have big blue aliens I can't even remember the names of, but we wouldn't have a single species of bear, at all? We'd go out of our way for a movie like this, when we have a movie called the Jungle Book completely ignored? There is so much life on this one blue marble, we don't need to go after life elsewhere. The aliens from rthe movie aliens are far more iconic then anything from Pandora, besides her box. As I said earlier, the super significant legendary animals of fiction are fine, but Avatar isn't even remotely in those mythic animals leagues.
This is just my opinion though, and I'm sure many will hate it. i understand the drive for e tickets, but some of the most beloved and impactful rides in Disney history were just beautifully well done entertainment for the family. The scientists who work with the animals that need our protection do a heck of a lot of research and studies to improve habitats, and learn about diseases and injuries so we can help the animals out. If that doesn't interest you, go over to Hollywood Studios and ride Rock n Roller Coaster. I'm always floored by people who walk past animal habitats rolling their eyes or bored, never realizing the significance of seeing animals. Earth is what it is partly because of them. Rather then learn about them, or even just take time out to watch how they move, they assume they've seen all that life has to offer, and go wait in a long line for 2 minutes of speed, never rembering that there isn't a rollercoaster in the world that can mimic a Peregrine Falcons Dive, or a ride in Disney World faster then a Cheetahs run.
Avatar was a BIG movie, one of the biggest of all-time, though not the biggest when figuring for inflation. Also Avatar was helped by 3D showings as well as more movie theaters now then back in the day. Though it was big, did it affect culture? Is it often quoted? Did kids dress up as the aliens for Halloween? Not that I saw. Most saw it, were visually stunned, and that was that. It came, and went. It's not even comparable to the legendary movies like Star Wars, Godfather, Gone With the Wind and wizard of Oz for example. I saw the movie and can't name a single character by name from it.
Does it have to do with conservation? Yes, but that conservation is centered on an alien world, where as Animal Kingdom is very centered around Earth. Star Wars is a much bigger franchise then Avatar, that can't even be argued, but yet the Star wars characters are ignored in all of this. Star Wars had wookies, jawas, ewoks, and dozens of other races of aliens in those movies. Why aren't they being put in Animal Kingdom? Conservation is a huge message in Animal Kingdom, and in Avatar, but Wall-E a movie completely owned by Disney is as well. I'm not sure I'd see Wall-E as a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom, but I'd see it a lot sooner then I would Avatar.
Avatar's visuals were beautiful, and it would be interesting to see what Imagineering could do with it. Animal Kingdom though I feel isn't the place.
I see Animal Kingdom as a beautiful park, and though Avatar is beautiful, it'd be like sticking the Chrysler Building in the middle of Yosemite national Park. They just don't go together.
There are thousands of different animal species on earth, many that are surprisingly absent from Animal Kingdom. We'd represent Pandora before we represent...the oceans? We'd have big blue aliens I can't even remember the names of, but we wouldn't have a single species of bear, at all? We'd go out of our way for a movie like this, when we have a movie called the Jungle Book completely ignored? There is so much life on this one blue marble, we don't need to go after life elsewhere. The aliens from rthe movie aliens are far more iconic then anything from Pandora, besides her box. As I said earlier, the super significant legendary animals of fiction are fine, but Avatar isn't even remotely in those mythic animals leagues.
This is just my opinion though, and I'm sure many will hate it. i understand the drive for e tickets, but some of the most beloved and impactful rides in Disney history were just beautifully well done entertainment for the family. The scientists who work with the animals that need our protection do a heck of a lot of research and studies to improve habitats, and learn about diseases and injuries so we can help the animals out. If that doesn't interest you, go over to Hollywood Studios and ride Rock n Roller Coaster. I'm always floored by people who walk past animal habitats rolling their eyes or bored, never realizing the significance of seeing animals. Earth is what it is partly because of them. Rather then learn about them, or even just take time out to watch how they move, they assume they've seen all that life has to offer, and go wait in a long line for 2 minutes of speed, never rembering that there isn't a rollercoaster in the world that can mimic a Peregrine Falcons Dive, or a ride in Disney World faster then a Cheetahs run.