Safe to panic now (Seas Holes!)

[planet7]

Inside, the "Seasons" carpets add a bit of whimsy while sticking with a theme...The overall asthetics are more modern, for example the seats. It gives the whole area a more "posh" feel which matches well with the classier food choices to be found in Seasons....The seat backs also have the Soarin' swoosh thingy in theme. Again, a nice reuse of an idea to keep cohesion between the elements. Overall i feel the more subtle color scheme helps to make the destinations really pop....Overall, i feel a connection between the areas and elements.

Thanks, Mousemef, for the proper reply. I don't agree with all your conclusions, but it's nice to see somoene at least think through them.

As I said in a previous post, I think the new entrance area is indeed an improvement. It's the interior that I think sorely lacks imagination. I can see your point that it has a bit more "upscale" feel (I wouldn't go so far as to say "posh"), yet it's done in very generic way. Interstingly too, while the lower level has gotten more "upscale", the restaurant upstairs (whatever it's called these days) has deteriorated to a "revolving Denny's". I don't know if you remember its days as The Good Turn and subseqeuntly The Land Grille Room, but it was much, much more upscale--even "posh", by theme park standards, with a rich, inviting atmosphere.

As to the connection between the elements, what do you feel connects the Living with the Land and Cirlce of Life to the rest of the pavilion? And what does Soarin' have to do with The Land? And I'm afraid that I don't get the connection between the carpet and the boat ride. Can you elaborate?

Have you eaten at the new food court? The offering sound more "upscale", but I didn't find the food that special, myself. I miss the Handwich and the Kraft cheese bread, among other things.

G7

 

[wannab@dis]

Gotcha. Everything is black-and-white, absolutely nothing in between, and whatever side you're on is the one and only right one.




Wow, you got all that from one post? You're good!

If you say it, it's good enough for me. Disney can do no wrong. Thanks for setting me straight! Gee, if I hadn't gotten on this board and had you feed me your opinions as "fact", I might have stumbled through life actually--gasp!--thinking for myself! You've saved me a great deal of work. From now on, I'll come to you for answers on everything. It may become a bit tiresome for you, but hey, that's the price of being an oracle, isn't it?

Reasoned disagreements, spirited discussion, debate--it's all good. But such utter nonsense and bile as you've spewed here is not. Too many people are scared off from posting valid ideas and insights, becuase of narrow-minded bullies such as yourself. I'm not one of them. As long as I see something worthy of responding to, I will.

Did you even read what I wrote? Or just launch right into "rant mode"? Apparently you're not programmed to respond in areas that don't fit with your black-and-white view of the world (or at least of Disney).

G7

If you want to post bile, the responses will contain bile also. You jump in and post how every change is for the worse, then my response that everything is not bad change is much less black and while than your stand. The interesting point is that you totally blew off the addition of Soarin and the popularity of The Land. Whether you get it or not or whether you see the theme or not isn't the issue. Maybe you will figure it out sometime, but it's not ALL about YOU.

The comparison of The Land now and prior to the addition of Soarin and the rehab is black and white. A DEAD pavilion now has life. I'm sorry that you don't want to see Epcot improve and regain the popularity it had prior to the being stuck in the 80's, but many of us are VERY happy to see the improvements. I know it's tough on so many purists to see the lackluster of yesterday ripped off, but thankfully you're not the voice of reason that is listened to. The majority of guests want improved, up-to-date and a better experience.

Now... back to that black and white thing that you keep tossing around...

The reality--and what has so many people up in arms--is that the disasters in the last 10 years have been more frequent, more serious, and rarely rectified. Walt (usually) learned from his mistakes. His successors largely haven't. It's very safe to say, for example, that we wouldn't have Imagination in its current state under Walt's leadership.

I guess black and white only applies to everyone else. Oh, no, you're the only person that's been around to see the "good, bad and ugly."

Absolutely every post you made in this thread has contained negativity and complaints. If you think the last 10 years have been so horrible... don't go. If you don't like the new AND improved The Land... vote your displeasure by not visiting. If you don't like the new food court in the Land DON'T walk in. One less person I'll have to stand behind in the VERY crowded and popular pavilion. Of course, I'm sure you could care less if it's popular and crowded with guests. You'd rather have the empty pavilion... with 'symbiosis'.

 

[planet7]

If you want to post bile, the responses will contain bile also. You jump in and post how every change is for the worse, then my response that everything is

I'll continue to participate in this forum as long as it interests me, but I'm not going to waste any more time responding to your irrational outbursts. Your responses have no bearing whatsoever on what I've actually said. Instead, you've bent over backwards to lump me among "people opposed to any and all change", supporting your convictions with outrageous and unfounded statements on what I think--as though you have any clue, beyond what I've posted (and you've summarily ignored). Go ahead, knock yourself out, rant like an idiot all you want. I'll respond only to those who can behave rationally, not get sucked into your bizarre and self-serving dramas.

G7

 

[mhead]

I'll continue to participate in this forum as long as it interests me, but I'm not going to waste any more time responding to your irrational outbursts. Your responses have no bearing whatsoever on what I've actually said. Instead, you've bent over backwards to lump me among "people opposed to any and all change", supporting your convictions with outrageous and unfounded statements on what I think--as though you have any clue, beyond what I've posted (and you've summarily ignored). Go ahead, knock yourself out, rant like an idiot all you want. I'll respond only to those who can behave rationally, not get sucked into your bizarre and self-serving dramas.

G7

AMEN and WELL SAID!:sohappy:

 

[wannab@dis]

I'll continue to participate in this forum as long as it interests me, but I'm not going to waste any more time responding to your irrational outbursts. Your responses have no bearing whatsoever on what I've actually said. Instead, you've bent over backwards to lump me among "people opposed to any and all change", supporting your convictions with outrageous and unfounded statements on what I think--as though you have any clue, beyond what I've posted (and you've summarily ignored). Go ahead, knock yourself out, rant like an idiot all you want. I'll respond only to those who can behave rationally, not get sucked into your bizarre and self-serving dramas.

G7

Read what you post.... you're style is all and more than you accuse me of. The problem is that you don't agree with me and claim attack mode. If you can't acknowledge the simple fact that The Land is BETTER now... then it's easy to see who is the irrational one. My reply to you met each of your claims, even the 'black and white' garbage. The problem is that you (and others) can't stand when someone shows that you don't have any basis in factual information to back your claims. Then you will then resort to playing the 'don't attack me' card. It's time for that mess to end.

There's a bigger picture at work here. Thankfully WDI understands that and is looking to bring Epcot back from the dead. I'm sorry that your nostalgic ideals can't understand progress, but don't whine when others embrace that progress and applaud it.

 

[wannab@dis]

AMEN and WELL SAID!:sohappy:

Informative and enlightening post! :wave:

What was well said? The part where they can't back up their claims? The part where they fail to address the improvements of The Land? Or the parts where their post embodies everything they accuse others of? Please tell me.

 

[marni1971]

If you can't acknowledge the simple fact that The Land is BETTER now...

But THAT`S purely your (and many others) opinion. It dosn`t make it right. I`m not saying I agree or disagree, but an opinion is purely a personal observation / belief. Not gospel truth.

 

[wannab@dis]

But THAT`S purely your (and many others) opinion. It dosn`t make it right.

Which would you consider the majority? Because in this instance, the majority is right since they are buying the tickets.

Also... you're one to always talk about the lines at JII vs JIYI. So, if it's good for Imag, be honest and tell us how the Land compare before and after. Any other comparison is a moot point. If you think it was themed better prior to the rehab, that's fine. However, the success is apparent and that's good for Disney and for the masses that now actually walk into the pavilion.

 

[wannab@dis]

But THAT`S purely your (and many others) opinion. It dosn`t make it right. I`m not saying I agree or disagree, but an opinion is purely a personal observation / belief. Not gospel truth.

You added to your post...

You're correct... it is my personal observation and that of MANY others.

There is no gospel truth in this matter. Each person that walks in sees it differently. However, surely you can admit that MANY more people walk in today. The Kidcot area was packed on my last visit. The first time I've ever seen that many kids. LWTL had a longer wait than I had seen in years. The food court was packed. All that spells success.

Everything else written in this thread is personal observation. The problem is that some DO NOT admit that the pavilion is better off now than prior to the rehab. I could care less whether they (or I for that matter) like the changes. It's not only about them. It's about the success of the pavilion.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Looks promising!
Death to the 80's EPCOT! :sohappy:

nothing worse then the WoL in terms of 80's........ ive made that very clear with my Richard Simmons analogy.



evolve or die in this world.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I visited the Land pavilion last year for the first time since the early 90's... Why was it so long between visits? Because the pavilion did not appeal to me.. I remember the pavilion having a dark feel to it.... With the opening of Soarin, I went back to the Land last year.. Yes, because of Soarin.. After seeing the new, updated, refurbed Land pavilion, I was amazed... Regardless if it is a generic refurb... The pavilion seem brighter.. Would I visit the Land again? Sure would... and not just for Soarin... I would go just to get out of the heat, maybe grab a snack, sit down and relax....

Opinions are neither right or wrong... We all have one, and we all are entitled to state it.... No one should be attacked for disagreeing....

 

[mhead]

Informative and enlightening post! :wave:

What was well said? The part where they can't back up their claims? The part where they fail to address the improvements of The Land? Or the parts where their post embodies everything they accuse others of? Please tell me.

Your response here just cements many of the things that have been said - by not contibuting to the discussion in a positive manner - but by giving a sarcastic intro to your point. To you the pavilion may be better - to me I think the Land has benefitted from the addition of Soarin' and that is the only thing that might have caused an increase in traffic- I do not have numbers to "back up" any claims - BUT NEITHER DO YOU! The bottom line is that it really does not matter, I personally like the changes, but I don't think they are making any big difference - again with the exception of Soarin'. Of course if you do have references for your claims, please cite them and if they are credible then so be it, I will acknowledge them, but it won't change my OPINION.Nor will it change yours which you seem to think is the only one that should exist and that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot and should be talked down to (unfortunately this seems to be a trend). As most of us were taught by good parents, it is not always what you say but the way you say it!

 

[wannab@dis]

Your response here just cements many of the things that have been said - by not contibuting to the discussion in a positive manner - but by giving a sarcastic intro to your point. To you the pavilion may be better - to me I think the Land has benefitted from the addition of Soarin' and that is the only thing that might have caused an increase in traffic- I do not have numbers to "back up" any claims - BUT NEITHER DO YOU! The bottom line is that it really does not matter, I personally like the changes, but I don't think they are making any big difference - again with the exception of Soarin'. Of course if you do have references for your claims, please cite them and if they are credible then so be it, I will acknowledge them, but it won't change my OPINION.Nor will it change yours which you seem to think is the only one that should exist and that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot and should be talked down to (unfortunately this seems to be a trend). As most of us were taught by good parents, it is not always what you say but the way you say it!

This is the first post you have made in this thread that actually had any substance other than complaining about posters. (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/search.php?searchid=769540 - quick check "backs up" my claim)

Walking into the pavilion, reading posts here and listening to the people in the pavilion will back up my claims that the pavilion is better now. Soarin is a pull, but people now hang out in the pavilion because it's inviting, clean, bright and fresh. It's the entire package that made the rehab a success.

 

[marni1971]

Which would you consider the majority? Because in this instance, the majority is right since they are buying the tickets.

Also... you're one to always talk about the lines at JII vs JIYI. So, if it's good for Imag, be honest and tell us how the Land compare before and after. Any other comparison is a moot point. If you think it was themed better prior to the rehab, that's fine. However, the success is apparent and that's good for Disney and for the masses that now actually walk into the pavilion.

There is no denying the themeing needed updating (the 94 rehab was barely cosmetic), and you have pointed out in the past, I havn`t experienced firsthand the current theming. It does, however, look good. We are talking about the Land arn`t we? I don`t quite understand your reference to Imagination with regards to The Land.

You added to your post... .

Indeed I did. I didn`t want to be misunderstood. For the record (sit down, Wannabe!) from what I understand about the new ride for The Living Seas it`s looking like it`ll be a superb addition to Futureworld West too. The Land is more than holding it`s own too, due to the points raised earlier in this thread. With the Imagination rehab hovering near a green lit status (another topic, but Dreamfinder wouldn`t be the be all and end all, purely a small part of a much larger makeover) and Siemens looking to invest in SSE and Earthstation / Global Neighborhood the big cloud is Futureworld North east. Mission: Space seems to have been accepted for what it is, let`s just hope WoL and UoE with whatever happens to them reach the same goals now apparent in todays TWDC.

 

[wannab@dis]

There is no denying the themeing needed updating (the 94 rehab was barely cosmetic), and you have pointed out in the past, I havn`t experienced firsthand the current theming. It does, however, look good. We are talking about the Land arn`t we? I don`t quite understand your reference to Imagination with regards to The Land.

You've made reference to the lines of people at JII compared to JIYI as the 'proof' that JIYI is not as popular and therefore not as good. Just carrying your point over to the Land.

Indeed I did. I didn`t want to be misunderstood. For the record (sit down, Wannabe!) from what I understand about the new ride for The Living Seas it`s looking like it`ll be a superb addition to Futureworld West too. The Land is more than holding it`s own too, due to the points raised earlier in this thread. With the Imagination rehab hovering near a green lit status (another topic, but Dreamfinder wouldn`t be the be all and end all, purely a small part of a much larger makeover) and Siemens looking to invest in SSE and Earthstation / Global Neighborhood the big cloud is Futureworld North east. Mission: Space seems to have been accepted for what it is, let`s just hope WoL and UoE with whatever happens to them reach the same goals now apparent in todays TWDC.

I'm really looking forward to the updates of TLS and also Imag. I'm wondering if WoL would better benefit from a bulldozer, tho. :lol: UoE needs updating, but it seems to be the best of the lot as far as status quo.

 

[wdwishes2005]

Your response here just cements many of the things that have been said - by not contibuting to the discussion in a positive manner - but by giving a sarcastic intro to your point. To you the pavilion may be better - to me I think the Land has benefitted from the addition of Soarin' and that is the only thing that might have caused an increase in traffic- I do not have numbers to "back up" any claims - BUT NEITHER DO YOU! The bottom line is that it really does not matter, I personally like the changes, but I don't think they are making any big difference - again with the exception of Soarin'. Of course if you do have references for your claims, please cite them and if they are credible then so be it, I will acknowledge them, but it won't change my OPINION.Nor will it change yours which you seem to think is the only one that should exist and that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot and should be talked down to (unfortunately this seems to be a trend). As most of us were taught by good parents, it is not always what you say but the way you say it!

Exactly. I would love for MI and TTLS to look great and fit. IMHO it wont. I am sick of being talked down to by wannab@dis..... Every thread I post in wannab has something nasty to say to me.

 

[wannab@dis]

Exactly. I would love for MI and TTLS to look great and fit. IMHO it wont. I am sick of being talked down to by wannab@dis..... Every thread I post in wannab has something nasty to say to me.

Every thread you post in has something negative and complaining. :wave:

If trying to point out that the attraction isn't even built yet and to give it a chance is a problem, sorry, but I will continue to post with an optimistic viewpoint. I'm not just going to agree with you so you will be happy.

 

[wdwishes2005]

I don't expect/want to shange your mind. I want you to stop talking down to me and acting like you are somebody so vastly superior to me....

 

[marni1971]

You've made reference to the lines of people at JII compared to JIYI as the 'proof' that JIYI is not as popular and therefore not as good. Just carrying your point over to the Land.
I'm really looking forward to the updates of TLS and also Imag. I'm wondering if WoL would better benefit from a bulldozer, tho. :lol: UoE needs updating, but it seems to be the best of the lot as far as status quo.

I see

I have to say I never personally saw lines outside of The Land pre 1994. I did however queue for ages to be served at Farmers Market, saw the entire fixed Listen to the Land queue area used, with the rope extention queue area also packed, and went in Kitchen Kabaret with a full house (Food Rocks was never full the times I saw it)

Seeing lines outside the current pavilion points to a few possibilities; screwed up traffic patterns, a popular new attraction, or the massive hype Soarin` has. I`d guess the latter two. Maybe in 5 or so years we`ll have to revisit the topic.

Using the same formula as yourself, JII was very popular, as I`ve said before with lines outside in the rope corral, this must prove it`s popularity. Not the same for JIYI or JIIWF. Not to mention JII`s internal fixed queue area was a lot larger than versions 2 and 3.

I`d hate to see WoL bulldozed for the sake of bulldozing it. It`s a prominent building, and some great architecture. The scale of what could be installed inside the dome is huge; the berm out front could always be removed to allow ground level access since it`s purely decorative - a complaint here a while ago was it hides the pavilion and impedes traffic flow uphill. From an architectural point of view (a niche view I admit, but one covered with interest bt agreat many guests and publications) I`d hate to see a warehouse box with a fancy facade take its place, like Mission: Space did with Horizons. I`m not talking about the contents of the buildings, just the buildings themselves. Upto M:S Futureworlds buildings were great to look at from any angle - a ride on Test Track shows the lack of theming of M:S where as Horizons even had a themed backside. Heck, Journeys in Space was an amazingly themed concept on the outside - even a smaller version would have been suitable to house M:S with a similar entrance to that finally built.

 

[wdwishes2005]

Every thread you post in has something negative and complaining. :wave:

If trying to point out that the attraction isn't even built yet and to give it a chance is a problem, sorry, but I will continue to post with an optimistic viewpoint. I'm not just going to agree with you so you will be happy.

And i'll stay firmly in realism..... I believe earlier in the thread you said

You can try to 'imagine' but then again, most of what you wrote was just imagination since it has no basis in fact.

A quick look back shows that I have indeed NOT posted ALL negative posts. Get the facts straight.