Rumors. Musings. Casual.

CJR

Well-Known Member
100 plus degrees June-Sept ? No thanks but I’ve lived in Houston for a short time. There are two major food groups - BBQ and Tacos.

To be fair, lots of places are 100 plus degrees June-Sept. Some places hit that and still get blizzards in November; both extremes. To be fair, didn't Houston get snow a year or so ago? It was so weird. The elephants at the zoo loved it though.

I'd say though, it's weird for Houston to have really cold temperatures and that's the point, some places get both extremes, with weather over 100 and then weather consistently in the negatives in the winter (cough, Joplin, MO, cough). For what its worth Dallas is worse than Houston (IMHO) in terms of being hot and that's where Universal is building their park.

BBQ and Tacos are definitely in Disney's crowd. They even found a way to get people to fork over big cash for BBQ at DHS and pay $8 for one taco at Food & Wine while still telling others about how great they are.
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
While I definitely don't agree with all of his takes, I do think there may be some truth to what Jim says in that tweet, though if it is what he meant it was not particularly well expressed.

View attachment 766236

^Who is this guy? If you'd never seen him before, you could still probably guess he's a Pirate. Given the name of the ride, you could almost certainly guess it by the time you get to him. Pirate is a pretty common word and looks similar in different languages, but also has iconography like the skull and crossbones that communicate beyond language. But those things aside, his look affirms it pretty clearly on its own - this guy's a Pirate. Given that he's got a speaking role and is placed highly and prominently in the scene, probably one of the more important ones.

What kind of Pirate is he? Well, what is he doing? He's running an auction - even if you don't speak the language of his dialogue, the layout and action of the scene around him support that story and communicate it with speed. Which is good, because in 12 seconds we'll be taking in the next scene, so this one has to register pretty quick so we can maximize enjoyment of the time we do get with it, and with him.

What's his name? What's his backstory? I don't know - and it doesn't matter. Disney doesn't provide you with that information and you aren't expected to know it. What you are expected to have is also pretty reasonable to expect from the guests - foreknowledge of Pirates, of auctions, and, failing the above, the ability to register well-organized visual information. And, they hope, the ability and desire to laugh at the gag of the scene once it registers.

View attachment 766237

^Who's this guy? If you'd never seen him before, it's harder to tell. He's humanoid, but clearly not human. Is he an alien? Given the context of Star Wars that seems likely, but do Aliens dress like that? Maybe, but the information is conflicting rather than clarifying. His costume doesn't really offer any clues, let alone ones that read at a glance. What's the name of the ride? Millennium Falcon: Smuggler's Run. The Millennium Falcon is famous, so those words do offer a pretty good clue to what to expect from the ride. Does this guy support the expectations you have from something called Millennium Falcon? Not immediately - he's not Han, he's not Chewie, and while there are good in-world reasons for them not to be present (Chewie appears briefly onscreen, at least) having this "new" guy appear in that queue once again confuses the information rather than clarifies it. It defies the guest expectation but only improves on it if you 1) Happen to know Hondo already, and 2) Think it's cool that he's making an appearance, despite seemingly coming at the expense of the more important and popular characters you might have expected.

Who is this guy and what does he have to do with the Millennium Falcon? You look to the space around him for clues, but there aren't many - it's him alone on a platform with a small control panel, a random droid below, and the rest is general Star Wars-y visual noise. Hard to deduce what he's doing. So at this point we have a lot to look at but little sense of what's happening - that is, unless you happen to know him already, which is not actually a reasonable assumption. Despite being part of something as popular as Star Wars, this character's a pretty deep cut.

Now what if you don't know what the Millennium Falcon is already? Those words alone don't tell you much, especially if you speak a language other than english. The word Smuggler might make some suggestions to english speakers, but it does not translate so literally across all languages. There is no real iconography that denotes what a smuggler is, that they're around, what you should think about that, or that you're technically about to be one of them. It's pretty language-dependent and that's not always the best tool for experiential communication. By this point you're through the queue having been given not much in the way of clues to what's happening beyond the Millennium Falcon out front. Which, again, is popular and iconic, but is also to some people just a spaceship. Having left it behind you some while back, by the time you reach Hondo it's reasonable to expect some clarity about what's coming and how this whole thing's gonna go. So far nothing about this experience has been particularly intuitive.

Hondo tries to tell you his name and what he does, but he's being somewhat decietful. That makes sense if you know the nature of the character and what he does, but to anyone who doesn't those things really haven't been communicated yet by this experience, so instead it's just more conflicting information that points away from why you're there rather than towards it. The character actually fills a trope that could serve as shorthand, but they obscure that in the name of being "authentic" - he is, in essence, also a Pirate, but the sneaky kind who gets away with it, so that's permitted to go over guests' heads instead of being explicitly stated. Imagine if everything in that room told you "This guy's a Space Pirate". But almost nothing does.

They spend some time making Hondo say things that justify the in-world reasons he's there, but it's hard for that to matter if you're still wondering if you're in the right place for the spaceship ride. When he tells you what he needs from you there's a lot of jargon and flowery talking that buries the lede of confirming what you're actually there for, which is to fly the spaceship. He does say it, but you'd better be paying damn close attention, sift through the exposition, understand english, and be able to remember the important parts of what he said once you're ushered into the next room. That's a pretty tall order for guests on vacation, taller if you only entered his preshow room after he started talking, which isn't unusual. As Eddie Sotto said in that Twitter thread, dialogue is usually lost on the audience. With exceptions of course, but no one remembers the Haunted Mansion Stretching Room spiel after hearing it the first time. And you don't need to - you're more likely to remember how words made you feel than what they were, and in the Mansion's case that's sufficient.

So, we've been told his name, we haven't really been told his backstory - should that matter? He pops up again on screen before you enter the cockpit, so it sure seems like it might matter. But by this point do you remember his name? Many guests probably don't, which actually is fine, but information overload can make guests feel like they're missing something, and we've been fed a lot already. Unfortunately a lot of the concepts that have played out up to that point don't speak clearly - your foreknowledge of aliens, smugglers, spaceships, and possibly Star Wars have all been tested, but if the math isn't adding up yet just looking around won't help you because the visual information has not been especially well-organized. Guests have to be pretty iniated to really get what's happening in the Smuggler's Run queue and preshows. And some are, but many aren't. It's fine to reward people who are initiated, but doing so at the expense of the uninitiated effectively punishes guests for wanting to have a good time without doing previous research. The queue itself should have been enough to get everyone up to speed, but despite being big, cool looking, and expensive, it fails at several levels of design that should be communicating clearly.

Follow that up with a ride experience like Smuggler's Run which is difficult to control, keeps plying you with dialogue from the mysterious man, is absent of many general Star Wars expectations, requires teamwork from strangers (often children), and what should have been a simple, home-run, dream-fulfilling ride turns into the unsatisfying, even frustrating attraction experience it has proven to be for many. The ride itself is almost beside the particular point we're talking about here, but with clearer setup that tells guests quickly and clearly what's important and sets expectations perhaps the actual ride might feel less overwhelming.

Point being, I obviously don't think existing IP is necessary for good storytelling - in fact, the IP stands in the way of the storytelling in Smuggler's Run - but in a fast-paced medium like theme park attractions visual economy is paramount, and a useful method for achieving that is playing on what guests know already. The Haunted Mansion creates a hundred new characters for guests to discover, but they all play on subjects the guests can be counted on to know something about. Even if you don't know about Mummies or Opera or Ballroom Dancing, you probably know enough about Ghosts in general to get what's happening. And if any of the characters or gags fall flat there are 20 more right behind that give you another shot at connecting with something. Meanwhile Hondo is one character, sparsely staged, densely scripted, and witholding by nature. If you miss the boat on him you may well miss the boat on the ride. Meanwhile, boiled down to its elements, going on a "Space Pirate adventure" sounds like a TON of fun. Had the ride been designed to fully play up that concept, comminicate it clearly, and then used Star Wars elements as the setting for that kind of experience, a character like Hondo could have stood alone as one who creates meaning even for guests who've never heard of him specifically.

EDITED To correct 2 different misspellings of Chewie 😅
I would just assume that he's a smuggler.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
San Antonio may be a better choice than Houston or Dallas. It’s drier/less humid, less impacted by tornadoes than Dallas and less impacted by hurricanes than Houston. And it’s already pretty touristy as is. Smack dab in the middle of DL and WDW.

This is pure fun speculation. Third American park is never getting built.

I still hope that the next generation of leaders will "get it", but I would not bet against it never happening.

San Antonio is the best spot in Texas, I mentioned Houston because it has no parks while San Antonio has Fiesta Texas and SeaWorld. Not that Disney would see either as a big threat. Austin isn't too far away either, you could get both San Antonio's crowd and Houston's. We've personally driven round trip to Six Flags from Houston and it was kind of like going from Daytona Beach to Tampa, long, but not unreasonable.

While it is unlikely that Disney specifically will do anything big in this three city market, I think it highlights how valuable it is for a theme park company looking for a big opportunity. For the size, it could certainly have something bigger than Fiesta Texas (which is pretty fantastic for Six Flags standards, if you've never been) and SeaWorld. They're both great, but suffer from the companies who run them. I could only imagine how a park would do if it was more "guest experience" focused.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I still hope that the next generation of leaders will "get it", but I would not bet against it never happening.

San Antonio is the best spot in Texas, I mentioned Houston because it has no parks while San Antonio has Fiesta Texas and SeaWorld. Not that Disney would see either as a big threat. Austin isn't too far away either, you could get both San Antonio's crowd and Houston's. We've personally driven round trip to Six Flags from Houston and it was kind of like going from Daytona Beach to Tampa, long, but not unreasonable.

While it is unlikely that Disney specifically will do anything big in this three city market, I think it highlights how valuable it is for a theme park company looking for a big opportunity. For the size, it could certainly have something bigger than Fiesta Texas (which is pretty fantastic for Six Flags standards, if you've never been) and SeaWorld. They're both great, but suffer from the companies who run them. I could only imagine how a park would do if it was more "guest experience" focused.
San Antonio has the dubious honor of being named the foot amputation capital from Dr Sobolesky of the Texas Institute because of the sky high diabetes rate. Lots of delish foods in the city but moderation and exercise is key. Good times and delicious Mexican food is in San Antonio.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
San Antonio has the dubious honor of being named the foot amputation capital from Dr Sobolesky of the Texas Institute because of the sky high diabetes rate. Lots of delish foods in the city but moderation and exercise is key. Good times and delicious Mexican food is in San Antonio.

Soo... what you're saying is that getting exercise in a large theme park could do some people good? 🤣

I joke, but Disney would probably love the scooter upsells.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
*Looks at poster name*

That's a name I have not seen in a long time. Long time.

You and everyone else can get in line behind me and there was another poster that have been beating the 3rd North American Resort drum for years now. People coming to Orlando for Disney aren't skipping the MK. The only way to relieve the pressure is for them not to come to Orlando.

This is a good point which brings up the question of how much you can actually scale Magic Kingdom? Adding more rides, shops and restaurants is one thing, but how much can things like parking, transportation, the main entrance, fireworks and parade viewing be scaled?
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Soo... what you're saying is that getting exercise in a large theme park could do some people good? 🤣

I joke, but Disney would probably love the scooter upsells.
We actually eat less when in the parks during the summer time. Walking like a wet sponge from the oppressive heat and humidity , walking miles , hydrating frequently and eating small meals.
 

castlecake2.0

Well-Known Member
This is a good point which brings up the question of how much you can actually scale Magic Kingdom? Adding more rides, shops and restaurants is one thing, but how much can things like parking, transportation, the main entrance, fireworks and parade viewing be scaled?
I feel a lot of their transportation problems could be fixed with the parade/firework/parade/projection show sandwich. That would help stagger people leaving and allow transportation to keep up.
 
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SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
This is a good point which brings up the question of how much you can actually scale Magic Kingdom? Adding more rides, shops and restaurants is one thing, but how much can things like parking, transportation, the main entrance, fireworks and parade viewing be scaled?
That’s my concern as well.

Why doesn’t MK do a virtual queue for the night show, similar to DLR?
 

bryanfze55

Well-Known Member
San Antonio has the dubious honor of being named the foot amputation capital from Dr Sobolesky of the Texas Institute because of the sky high diabetes rate. Lots of delish foods in the city but moderation and exercise is key. Good times and delicious Mexican food is in San Antonio.
Disney will just need to invest in a lot of motorized scooters.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Here’s what’s not gonna happen: more Disneylands

Here’s the real problem: even the diehard fans are obsessed with parades and fireworks…which are nothing. 15 minutes a day.

Here’s what SHOULD happen: about 5 new attractions of varying types in DAK, MGM and Eppy…each. It’s the only way to stablize the balance.

None of these problems get better under ego Bob. He just can’t accept that his ideas aren’t working. Been a long time coming…his head will explode like in scanners
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member

This is a good point which brings up the question of how much you can actually scale Magic Kingdom? Adding more rides, shops and restaurants is one thing, but how much can things like parking, transportation, the main entrance, fireworks and parade viewing be scaled?
How much extra capacity could be added with 3 extra hours instead of an after hours event.

Which one is more profitable and less expensive to run?

How much capacity can be added by bringing back an evening parade?

I would bet the scale is tilted to minimize all operational costs and that’s why we don’t see these things come to fruition.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
This is a good point which brings up the question of how much you can actually scale Magic Kingdom? Adding more rides, shops and restaurants is one thing, but how much can things like parking, transportation, the main entrance, fireworks and parade viewing be scaled?
Magic Kingdom needs multiple entrances and exits. The bus loop should empty into a new entrance that uses the current service road and parking area that was planned for the Main Street theatre.

An additional entrance could be added along the grand Floridian walkway that emptied into Adventureland but that would be a bit more complex. But resort boats and even monorail traffic could be redirected to that area.

Disneylands solution to the crowding at night was Fantasmic - MK could easily build a new night time show to pull people from the fireworks viewing and of course the night time parades helped with that issue too.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
They need a 2nd fireworks viewing location people *want* to be, instead of in front of the Castle. Casita Madrigal in the theorized Beyond Big Thunder expansion could provide a decent platform for this. But knowing Disney, they will probably have to empty the whole area during fireworks.
 

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