Rumor- WDW to get new monorail trains in near future

[Timon]

For those of you who want to know what's going on in the real world of monorails here is some "drool" pictures of Bombardiers' Sao Paulo Brazil project and the INNOVIA 300.

Bombardier just started testing the first of over 50 trains for this Monorail Line. Other shots show various construction and the train.

7 Cars, 1000 passengers vs WDW Mark VI 360 passengers and DL Mark VII 120 passengers

Fully automated, walk through cars, the nose opens to reveal a train to train auto-coupler.

Train in the station

Walk-thru, wide open design.

That's a big train. Wouldn't this be great for a East-Line DTD to AK.
Hope you enjoyed this.

 

[Voxel]

For those of you who want to know what's going on in the real world of monorails here is some "drool" pictures of Bombardiers' Sao Paulo Brazil project and the INNOVIA 300.

Bombardier just started testing the first of over 50 trains for this Monorail Line. Other shots show various construction and the train.

7 Cars, 1000 passengers vs WDW Mark VI 360 passengers and DL Mark VII 120 passengers

Fully automated, walk through cars, the nose opens to reveal a train to train auto-coupler.

Train in the station

Walk-thru, wide open design.

That's a big train. Wouldn't this be great for a East-Line DTD to AK.
Hope you enjoyed this.

Thank you for posting those are beautiful machines.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

"So you're telling me there's a chance!"

This is pure speculation, so don't beat me up for not having insider information. I have not even talked with a bus driver.

WDW is very cost conscious, and seems to be relying more on busses and water craft for travel to and from the MK and parking lot. The TTC seems to be a pretty useless place, and is not very useful as a monorail hub.

So imagine this for a moment...

1) The outer loop at Magic Kingdom is direct connected to the EPCOT loop. There are two stations (and maybe two-three trains?) on this direct loop.

2) The inner loop stays the resort loop with typically two trains and four stops (MK, Contemp, Poly, and Grand Flor)

3) The monorail stations at TTC are removed and it becomes strictly a bus and watercraft transfer point.

That means you can handle all of the WDW needs with 6 new trains (one spare), and have monorail barn space for eventual expansion of the system to the Studios. In fact in the very near term you could just buy three new trains for the MK-EPCOT loop.

Also keep in mind that the new trains would have larger capacity if they are the modern "flat floor" design.

 

[Rinx]

It's like playing the lottery. You enjoy and have fun thinking what you're going to do with all that money but you really know that it's never going to happen.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Also keep in mind that the new trains would have larger capacity if they are the modern "flat floor" design.

You'd have to rebuild everything for such trains with the Contemporary being a particularly large job.

 

[deix15x8]

Those new monorail trains in Brazil look just like the ones used for Tokyo Disney.

 

[asianway]

This is pure speculation, so don't beat me up for not having insider information. I have not even talked with a bus driver.

WDW is very cost conscious, and seems to be relying more on busses and water craft for travel to and from the MK and parking lot. The TTC seems to be a pretty useless place, and is not very useful as a monorail hub.

So imagine this for a moment...

1) The outer loop at Magic Kingdom is direct connected to the EPCOT loop. There are two stations (and maybe two-three trains?) on this direct loop.

2) The inner loop stays the resort loop with typically two trains and four stops (MK, Contemp, Poly, and Grand Flor)

3) The monorail stations at TTC are removed and it becomes strictly a bus and watercraft transfer point.

That means you can handle all of the WDW needs with 6 new trains (one spare), and have monorail barn space for eventual expansion of the system to the Studios. In fact in the very near term you could just buy three new trains for the MK-EPCOT loop.

Also keep in mind that the new trains would have larger capacity if they are the modern "flat floor" design.

Resort has run 4 trains on a typical day for the last 30 years. Are you suggesting half those trains are people transferring from TTC parking?

 

[CDavid]

This is pure speculation, so don't beat me up for not having insider information. I have not even talked with a bus driver.

WDW is very cost conscious, and seems to be relying more on busses and water craft for travel to and from the MK and parking lot. The TTC seems to be a pretty useless place, and is not very useful as a monorail hub.

So imagine this for a moment...

1) The outer loop at Magic Kingdom is direct connected to the EPCOT loop. There are two stations (and maybe two-three trains?) on this direct loop.

2) The inner loop stays the resort loop with typically two trains and four stops (MK, Contemp, Poly, and Grand Flor)

3) The monorail stations at TTC are removed and it becomes strictly a bus and watercraft transfer point.

That means you can handle all of the WDW needs with 6 new trains (one spare), and have monorail barn space for eventual expansion of the system to the Studios. In fact in the very near term you could just buy three new trains for the MK-EPCOT loop.

Also keep in mind that the new trains would have larger capacity if they are the modern "flat floor" design.

If Disney wanted to (sharply) reduce reliance on the Transportation & Ticket Center to Magic Kingdom express monorail, they would have rebuilt the loop for the parking trams at the MK rather than quite so many bus stops. Running direct from Mk parking has been done before, and there is no need to artificially create a capacity crunch at the TTC by passengers needlessly changing from trams to buses.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Resort has run 4 trains on a typical day for the last 30 years. Are you suggesting half those trains are people transferring from TTC parking?

Well, a current train has a capacity of 380 people, and the Bombardier INNOVIA 300 can carry as many at 750 in a 6-car train.

A modern system is inevitable just because the operational costs will come down.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, a current train has a capacity of 380 people, and the Bombardier INNOVIA 300 can carry as many at 750 in a 6-car train.

A modern system is inevitable just because the operational costs will come down.

How do the operational costs overcome the costs of rebuilding the entire system?

 

[DisneyGentleman]

How do the operational costs overcome the costs of rebuilding the entire system?

Obviously they won't rebuild the entire system. When the new monorails were prepared for Disneyland, they had to adjust the platforms. The difference in cross section would either be accommodated by such adjustments, or the trains would be customized (probably a mix of the two).

Rapid transit systems around the world do this all the time. In Boston, they have 4 lines with three completely different trains to accommodate track systems. Also keep in mind that Las Vegas used to run old WDW monorails and now they have upgraded. I don't believe they tore out the old system when they expanded.

A good example is airlines. The startup airlines tend to make more money because they have new planes that are more reliable and require far less maintenance. Operation costs are always a killer.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Obviously they won't rebuild the entire system. When the new monorails were prepared for Disneyland, they had to adjust the platforms. The difference in cross section would either be accommodated by such adjustments, or the trains would be customized (probably a mix of the two).

Rapid transit systems around the world do this all the time. In Boston, they have 4 lines with three completely different trains to accommodate track systems. Also keep in mind that Las Vegas used to run old WDW monorails and now they have upgraded. I don't believe they tore out the old system when they expanded.

A good example is airlines. The startup airlines tend to make more money because they have new planes that are more reliable and require far less maintenance. Operation costs are always a killer.

The Mark VIIs at Disneyland reused the Mark V bodies and chassis. There were no modifications made to the stations. The Walt Disney World stations were modified for the Mark VIs which pushed the clearances to their limits. Disney would have to radically shrink the propulsion systems in order to have cars like the INNOVIA 300.

Las Vegas upgraded from Mark IVs to M-VIs (INNOVIA 200) much like Walt Disney World. That though is far different than the radical jump that would occur with upgrading to something more like the INNOVIA 300s.

 

[BalooChicago]

The 300 uses a different size beamway.

http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/TPBeams.html

 

[lazyboy97o]

The 300 uses a different size beamway.

http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/TPBeams.html

The beam way size differences can probably be overcome easily. It is the beam-to-floor and beam-to-roof heights that would be the serious obstacles.

 

[marni1971]

As would be the storm doors of the Contemporary. Amongst other things.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

As would be the storm doors of the Contemporary. Amongst other things.

It's an optimization problem and we can argue forever. The beam width issue is a minor issue. Doors can be replaced and stations can be adjusted. However, Las Vegas went with the Innovia 200, which is a Mark VI compatible design and that is possibly a more likely answer.

The real question is what is most cost effective - fewer high capacity trains, or more lower capacity trains. Who knows? An engineer will answer that question. But keep in mind they are also building new bus stations to accommodate high capacity articulated busses, and that is new sunk cost.

My point remains that operational costs trump infrastructure costs, and maintaining an aging fleet is expensive.

 

[marni1971]

Well, this thread is a year old today.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's an optimization problem and we can argue forever. The beam width issue is a minor issue. Doors can be replaced and stations can be adjusted. However, Las Vegas went with the Innovia 200, which is a Mark VI compatible design and that is possibly a more likely answer.

The INNOVIA 200 is not just Mark VI compatible, it pretty much is the Mark VI. The efficiencies Las Vegas has over Walt Disney World are automation, interior design and level entry. All of those can be done without new trains.

 

[danlb_2000]

Well, this thread is a year old today.

"Near future" is Disney time is 10 to 20 years.

 

[asianway]

As would be the storm doors of the Contemporary. Amongst other things.

Complete non sequitur - got any pics of those babies closed?