Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
^^^If they REALLY wanted to, they'd custom order them. That's what they did when they updated Disneyland's monorails.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Rumor- WDW to get new monorail trains in near future
- Thread starter baylaketower
- Start date
- Status
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Alright guys, after looking, the Innovia 200 will not work, even if there was another nose style put on, and I'll show you why. I dug up some research (basic searches) and got these measurements, which I'm sure will prove to be difficult in many places.
------------------------------Mark VI Monorail--------------------Innovia 200 Monorail
End Cars (with Cabs)-----40 Feet 5 Inches--------------------38.05 Feet
Regular Inner Cars--------28 Feet 2 Inches--------------------28.16 Feet
Train Width----------------8 Feet 4.5 Inches-------------------8 Feet 8 Inches
Skirt to Roof Height------10 Feet 5.5 Inches------------------11 Feet 2.5 Inches
Floor to Roof Height------5 Feet 10.75 Inches----------------7 Feet 1 Inch
Top Beam to Roof---------7 Feet 5 Inches---------------------7 Feet 10 Inches
These are just a few random measurements, that seem to be the most noticable... The Innovia 200s are a bit bigger... They may not be MUCH bigger, but they're larger, and I think that would prove to be problematic in areas.
If they were to get new trains, they'd have to be custom and fit the size they have now... I think in stations and the Contemporary the Innovias would NOT fit at all. The Mark VIs have like 4-6 inches under the floor platform above... Width I think serves a problem too at the Contemporary...
Long Story Short, GET TO DESIGNING DISNEY!! YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO USE INNOVIA 200s!!!
I know the Innovia trains would be a serious issue for the Contemporary, but are you sure about the bolded measurement? If that's the interior measurement, I know that's not right, because I'm about 6'2" and I can stand straight up with about 6 inches to spare in the monorails.
thehowiet
Wilson King of Prussia
I agree. The WDW Mark VI was also a custom order through Bombardier. They might be able to use the Bombardier Innovia 200 chassis, if they decided to go that route, but throw a custom fiberglass body on it that had a slightly lower height and smaller width.
However, as other posters have mentioned, Bombardier is quite busy right now so I wonder if such a small order would be of interest to them at this time, regardless of if it was a custom design and build from scratch, or using the Innovia 200 chassis with a custom body. Perhaps after they wrap-up a few of the big contracts they are working on. I don't really know how Bombardier operates or handles these types of things so this is all speculation on my part.
When I was in Vegas this past May I was able to speak with a couple of Bombardier employees that were observing operations at the Harrah's/Imperial Palace station. They said from what they have heard, the WDW trains were past their expected lifespan and that the Vegas MVI trains they are running now have an expected lifespan of 17 years based on their studies. Now these guys might have been the equivalent of the WDW bus driver as far as having good information, so I take what they said with a grain of salt.
Mickey1984
Active Member
I prefer the ones at WDW, but then thats what I have grown up with, so they will always have a special place in my heart. DLC are ok, but for me they are not "my" classic.
Also not a fan of the naming/theming, and the way they talk about riding inside them - lol
Also not a fan of the naming/theming, and the way they talk about riding inside them - lol
NormC
Well-Known Member
Alright guys, after looking, the Innovia 200 will not work, even if there was another nose style put on, and I'll show you why. I dug up some research (basic searches) and got these measurements, which I'm sure will prove to be difficult in many places.
------------------------------Mark VI Monorail--------------------Innovia 200 Monorail
End Cars (with Cabs)-----40 Feet 5 Inches--------------------38.05 Feet
Regular Inner Cars--------28 Feet 2 Inches--------------------28.16 Feet
Train Width----------------8 Feet 4.5 Inches-------------------8 Feet 8 Inches
Skirt to Roof Height------10 Feet 5.5 Inches------------------11 Feet 2.5 Inches
Floor to Roof Height------5 Feet 10.75 Inches----------------7 Feet 1 Inch
Top Beam to Roof---------7 Feet 5 Inches---------------------7 Feet 10 Inches
These are just a few random measurements, that seem to be the most noticable... The Innovia 200s are a bit bigger... They may not be MUCH bigger, but they're larger, and I think that would prove to be problematic in areas.
If they were to get new trains, they'd have to be custom and fit the size they have now... I think in stations and the Contemporary the Innovias would NOT fit at all. The Mark VIs have like 4-6 inches under the floor platform above... Width I think serves a problem too at the Contemporary...
Long Story Short, GET TO DESIGNING DISNEY!! YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO USE INNOVIA 200s!!!
I beg to differ. The one critical dimension is Top of Beam to Roof and that is only 5 inches taller on the 200s so they would fit in the contempo. It would be close but there is more than 5 inches there now. The 3.5 inches of extra width would not be a problem either as that is only 1.75 inches per side and the current gap is bigger than that. Why do you think it would not work? Some adjustments may be needed but it is not major rework. Even if they had to shave a couple inches off of the balcony in the contempo it would not be that difficult.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
I agree there should be enough clearance at the Contemporary. It is also not like Bombardier can't make a new cone. They made two new ones for Peach. My original understanding was that the VI's had an operational life span of about 25-30 years. That also assumes they were being properly maintained. We can guess the result on that. They probably lost five to ten years of life skimping on maintenance (plus I always take five years off of predicted life span for untested marketing). My only question on the Innovia's would be power and control systems needed. however, with the newer technology available, they may be able to use less power than the VI's. I think it is going to take a few more major monorail failures at critical times before anyone green lights the expenditure. DLR's had to practically fall apart before they were authorized.
Eeyore13
Member
Agreed, I am 6 foot and there is plenty of room to spare above my head
nace888
Well-Known Member
Guys, the measurements were from diagrams, I am not COMPLETELY positive on the source, but I'd imagine the Mark VIs have the room. The nose cones for Peach were in fact (if I'm correct) were not made by Bombardier, but by Disney themselves... My understanding is that Disney purchased the molds for the new nose cones, hence some of the length before Peach's debut. That being said, the width may not be a problem so much, but we're looking at a lot of custom work that could be done. To be honest, I think an Innovia chassis would work well, but new shells would have to be made.
While some would say that they could reuse the current shells, I think ALL NEW TRAINS may be the best way to go. Some trains have noticable dings and dents. I know Red has a little bit of a misshaped nose from the accident with the tractor. I think one of the trains (Silver) sits lower than the rest of the fleet, and I think one or two have noticable dents along the cars... MAYBE THOUGH, with NEW trains, they might be painted correctly! OMG Maybe they'll go back to the ORIGINAL deltas for the delta team, and give Peach one as well. Ahh the ideas...
While some would say that they could reuse the current shells, I think ALL NEW TRAINS may be the best way to go. Some trains have noticable dings and dents. I know Red has a little bit of a misshaped nose from the accident with the tractor. I think one of the trains (Silver) sits lower than the rest of the fleet, and I think one or two have noticable dents along the cars... MAYBE THOUGH, with NEW trains, they might be painted correctly! OMG Maybe they'll go back to the ORIGINAL deltas for the delta team, and give Peach one as well. Ahh the ideas...
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
It was actually my understanding that the cones (not just the mold but the car) were made by Bombardier since the others were too damaged to be rebuilt. It was much more than the molds. There was extensive modifications of wiring too. I may be wrong on that. I have never gotten a clear answer on this. With as much that Disney outsources, I really can't see Disney building them on their own.
With as significant a purchase as a new fleet of monorails would be, I'm sure Disney would put it out for bids with specifications. I could easily see Bombardier having the advantage considering that the Disney base system has been used for many of their designs. It is really everything that you can't see that is wearing. I suppose it is possible they could go for a full strip and build process. Not sure if Peach has an extended life cycle over the original fleet. The cones likely get the most stress. Maybe rebuilding/replacing the cones while stripping and rebuilding the systems in the cars could get another 15 years or so if done right. I just think that lessons learned in the Mark VI's could lead to a much more efficient and reliable vehicle.
nace888
Well-Known Member
I may be wrong, but I was under the impression the cars did NOT need to be rebuilt. They were checked over for damage, but all of Purple (minus the rear cab-car) were used for Teal. Same with Peach, all of Pink (but the front and rear cabs) became Peach. The cones are new.
Timon
Well-Known Member
Just a thought -
If a East-West monorail line was built it could use INNOVIA 300 trains, exclusively. Since the 300's are bigger and use a different size track they could never mix 200's and 300's. Any expansion would have required an additional monorail shop so why not go with the best vs building on updated 40 year old designs.
If a East-West monorail line was built it could use INNOVIA 300 trains, exclusively. Since the 300's are bigger and use a different size track they could never mix 200's and 300's. Any expansion would have required an additional monorail shop so why not go with the best vs building on updated 40 year old designs.
Monorail_Red
Well-Known Member
No, they did not. Teal is mostly Pink and Peach is mostly Purple. This is how they got Teal out so fast. The "guts" of the trains are within cars 2-5, and cars 1 & 6 are pretty much just trailers that are pushed/pulled. So for Teal they swapped car 6 and repainted the train, which means that Teal is made up of cars 1-5 of Pink and car 6 of Purple. Peach consists of cars 1-5 of Purple, and car 6 of Pink plus the rebuilt cabs.
Hedwig's Keeper
Active Member
"So you're telling me there's a chance!"
I think this needs some clearing up, the concept of useful life span is more a measure of fiscal accounting of a fixed asset asset rather than measurement of when the asset will stop working. Any large capital fixed asset, like a monorail is continually tracked. Factors like depreciation, fixed and variable costs (maintenance, upgrades, usage, etc) are continually tracked given their tax implications. When the use cost exceeds the replacement cost you can bet you'll get replacement trains.
Setting aside any non-financial reason, someone has made a conclusion that the MVI is still and continues to be a viable platform. Look at the recent upgrades of the train control systems and replacement of of all wiring harness as an example of this. Everything else (tires, traction motors, contacters, brushes, etc)is just a consumable that is replaced/repaired on a maintenance schedule.
Remember the DL monorails are still using the same chasis and beamway from the 50's
Setting aside any non-financial reason, someone has made a conclusion that the MVI is still and continues to be a viable platform. Look at the recent upgrades of the train control systems and replacement of of all wiring harness as an example of this. Everything else (tires, traction motors, contacters, brushes, etc)is just a consumable that is replaced/repaired on a maintenance schedule.
Remember the DL monorails are still using the same chasis and beamway from the 50's
DonaldDude23
Member
I think that they should start with the interior of the Monorails first,and then worry about the outside and a new exterior look. Although, a new monorail design couldn't hurt. I just want them to keep it "Disney World Style"
lunchbox1175
Well-Known Member
I don't know so I am asking, but doesn't Tokyo Disney have a monorail that is supposedly really nice? Is that a possible option?
James122
Well-Known Member
Personally, I dislike the exterior look of the Tokyo Disney monorails - I think they look way too boxy, as opposed to the sleek look of the WDW and DL monorails. However the interiors are a lot nicer than anything stateside, and you can also walk from one car to another.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Something that big wouldnt fit on the track or through the Contemporary. It is very nice, and I suspect survive long after DL and WDW remove theirs.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Completely different system and because of the size of the Toyko trains - could not be used on the WDW system without rebuilding everything.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
From a Bus Driver I presume?
- Status