News Roger E. Broggie overhaul

Captain Barbossa

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I am a bit surprised they did it this way too, considering with the daily shop tours and the confidentiality agreement, there's nowhere left to hide Roger since Walter is taking up the sideshop area. I'd imagine they'd wait til once Walter is on the truck and out of the shop before they start the teardown out of public view.
I think you’re more than right.

But my guess would be that while the RR is closed, even if Strasburg can get some preliminary inspections done before the teardown begins, it's worth sending early it to get it back earlier than if they waited to send it.
Here’s my take on the situation. Ok, let’s say that this rumor isn’t true, which is how I’m currently treating it at the moment due to the lack of enough information and other evidence to support the claim, and they’ve already started work on Roger, then I understand the reason for sending him in June and would have to say that it was a smart move. Especially since Walter will be back before the WDWRR reopens. Even though the picture from the other day looks as if work has yet to begin, that might not be the case. Like you said, they could be doing inspections or some sort of preparation before stripping Roger down. Heck, for all we know they might be working on the tender. One possibility that I think is believable is that they’re working inside the cab, like disassembling the controls, gauges, and other interior stuff.

Now, if this rumor is true, which it could be, than I really don’t understand why they went ahead and sent Roger. Why would they go ahead and send him to Strasburg knowing that he will be sitting there for at least 5 months before they start working on him. And with the whole confidentiality/privacy agreement, you’d think that Disney would rather have Roger remain in WDW for the time being instead of having him exposed in the Strasburg shops where everyone can see him. Also, I can tell you that the WDWRR crew would rather be giving tours right now with either Roger or Roy instead of Lilly.

Anyways, those are my opinions/arguments for both sides of this rumor.

Hopefully this is after I take their shop tour at the end of September!
I will be expecting photos of both locomotives! ;) (Walter will be a tough one though)
 

Horizons78

Grade "A" Funny...
Forwarded to me by a friend on the tour from earlier today:

11CEED08-FD6A-41CC-AFDC-A2768BF54D15.jpeg


3F7BED9B-04A1-4D9A-A2E2-9B2A6A15829F.jpeg


A603BD2F-2D28-4F92-8DFA-FD6A8099C116.jpeg


8FD6BF05-68FC-413B-852E-152384082E1D.jpeg
 

NormC

Well-Known Member
Is there really a confidentiality agreement? I think it is fair to say that most steam rail-fans know where the engines go to get rebuilt and most visitors to Strasburg recognize those trains. The other place is Tweetsie for narrow gauge trains.
 

Captain Barbossa

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Forwarded to me by a friend on the tour from earlier today:

11CEED08-FD6A-41CC-AFDC-A2768BF54D15.jpeg


3F7BED9B-04A1-4D9A-A2E2-9B2A6A15829F.jpeg


A603BD2F-2D28-4F92-8DFA-FD6A8099C116.jpeg


8FD6BF05-68FC-413B-852E-152384082E1D.jpeg
Thanks for the pictures. They really give a much better idea of where Roger is exactly located inside of the shop. I noticed that his smokestack has been thrown on top of his tender. Looks like they’ve started to remove some of the glass from the window frames in the cab.

The photo of the new wheels and trucks attached to the shop crane are for the tender. The new tender wheels actually came from WDW. There’s always a vast supply of them sitting around the roundhouse. They were more than likely loaded up on the truck that hauled the tender.

why would they rather give tours with Roger or Roy as opposed to Lily?
Most of it has to do with the computerized safety system and electric igniter, which Lilly is equipped with. (soon Walter, Roger, and Roy)
In terms of the computerized safety system, it is a pain in the butt to start up and the slightest mistake will set all of Lilly’s alarms off and the system will shut down and the process will have to be restarted. In can be a very frustrating and time consuming process.

Also, the computerized safety system is now in charge of sensing the amount of pressure in the boiler. In other words, they no longer use the pop-off valves. The only times that they use the pop-off valves on Lilly is whenever they’re testing them back at the roundhouse or during the tour as a demonstration. Other than that, Lilly’s pop-off valves are turned off before going on stage. Whenever Lilly is fired up, they have to test the boiler sensor to ensure that it’s functioning properly. So what they have to do is let enough pressure build up in the boiler to set off the sensor. Whenever the sensor detects that the pressure in the boiler is at a level that would normally trigger the pop-off valves, an alarm will go off and the system will extinguish the fire completely. Once that is done, they have to refire the locomotive. So testing the boiler sensor can also be time consuming.

Now, we come to the electric igniter. The electric igniter is not as easy as some make it sound like. It’s nowhere at all as simple as pushing a button like on a gas grill. It’s another complicated and time consuming process, and just like starting up the computerized safety system, if something is done slightly incorrect, then the whole process will have to be restarted. Basically there’s an igniter inside of the firebox that produces a spark. The igniter is retractable and can be lowered down to the burners via controls that are located in the tender. In order to fire up Lilly, the brakes must be on. If the sensors do not detect that the brakes have been applied during the ignition sequence, then an alarm will go off and the computer will shut off the fuel line and a fire cannot be lit. Obviously, to apply the brakes, you have to have enough air in the compressor. The atomizer and the blower, which must be on when firing any oil-fired steam locomotive, are also ran by air. Now, if Lilly is still warm in the morning, she might have enough air pressure to run all 3, but if she’s starting up cold, then an external air hose must be hooked up to her until she’s built up enough pressure herself. (This also applies to Walter, Roger, and Roy) Also, there are times when the igniter will malfunction and not produce a spark, and then there are times when the igniter will produce a spark but it won’t catch, which usually means that the fuel level is low.

Ok, so you might’ve read this and are now asking the question, “How does all of that relate to the tour?”. Well, whenever the tour arrives backstage for the roundhouse portion and cab tour, the locomotives are “shut off” for safety purposes. They are not left running. So, when it’s time to leave the roundhouse and head back on stage, the locomotives must be started up again. As you now know, starting Lilly isn’t the easiest thing. If something were to go slightly wrong with the start-up process, whether it’s with the computerized safety system or the electric igniter, it could take some time to resolve the issue, on top of alarms blaring, which would be “bad show”. That’s one reason for the crew preferring Roger or Roy for tours. The other reason is they would like to be able to show guests the “old” way of firing up the locomotives by lighting the ball of fabric on fire and throwing it into the firebox, which can no longer be done with Lilly. Anyways, the crew went through extensive training on how to give tours with Lilly since they’d never used her for tours since she came back from Strasburg.

Sorry for the lengthy response, but I figured that I might as well go a little more in-depth since these changes are coming to Walter, Roger, and Roy.

Is there really a confidentiality agreement?
Yes, and I think it’s silly if you ask me. All WDWRR railfans know that the locomotives are overhauled at Strasburg. If Disney is that concerned about the privacy of the whereabouts of the locomotives when they’re not on property, then maybe the crew and other CMs should quit telling guests that the locomotives are overhauled at a “reputable railroad museum in eastern Pennsylvania”. They can’t say “Strasburg” but they sure as heck won’t deny it. I just think it’s funny how stupid Disney pays Strasburg to act when guests ask questions about the locomotives.
 
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trainplane3

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the lengthy response, but I figured that I might as well go a little more in-depth since these changes are coming to Walter, Roger, and Roy.


Yes, and I think it’s silly if you ask me. All WDWRR railfans know that the locomotives are overhauled at Strasburg. If Disney is that concerned about the privacy of the whereabouts of the locomotives when they’re not on property, then maybe the crew and other CMs should quit telling guests that the locomotives are overhauled at a “reputable railroad museum in eastern Pennsylvania”. They can’t say “Strasburg” but they sure as heck won’t deny it. I just think it’s funny how stupid Disney pays Strasburg to act when guests ask questions about the locomotives.
Yeah, don't be. This is a spectrum that none of the other insiders here go into so it's super interesting. It's a shame the trains are "harder" to get going but I'd still prefer it over going for a diesel/electric conversion. And it's nice the trains get this much love in the first place.

Also, that's funny. Literally google "eastern Pennsylvania train museum" and Strasburg pops up as the first result. But hey, if it keeps the museum and it's restorations alive then it's worth it to play the game.
 

Horizons78

Grade "A" Funny...
Thanks for the pictures. They really give a much better idea of where Roger is exactly located inside of the shop. I noticed that his smokestack has been thrown on top of his tender. Looks like they’ve started to remove some of the glass from the window frames in the cab.

The photo of the new wheels and trucks attached to the shop crane are for the tender. The new tender wheels actually came from WDW. There’s always a vast supply of them sitting around the roundhouse. They were more than likely loaded up on the truck that hauled the tender.


Most of it has to do with the computerized safety system and electric igniter, which Lilly is equipped with. (soon Walter, Roger, and Roy)
In terms of the computerized safety system, it is a pain in the butt to start up and the slightest mistake will set all of Lilly’s alarms off and the system will shut down and the process will have to be restarted. In can be a very frustrating and time consuming process.

Also, the computerized safety system is now in charge of sensing the amount of pressure in the boiler. In other words, they no longer use the pop-off valves. The only times that they use the pop-off valves on Lilly is whenever they’re testing them back at the roundhouse or during the tour as a demonstration. Other than that, Lilly’s pop-off valves are turned off before going on stage. Whenever Lilly is fired up, they have to test the boiler sensor to ensure that it’s functioning properly. So what they have to do is let enough pressure build up in the boiler to set off the sensor. Whenever the sensor detects that the pressure in the boiler is at a level that would normally trigger the pop-off valves, an alarm will go off and the system will extinguish the fire completely. Once that is done, they have to refire the locomotive. So testing the boiler sensor can also be time consuming.

Now, we come to the electric igniter. The electric igniter is not as easy as some make it sound like. It’s nowhere at all as simple as pushing a button like on a gas grill. It’s another complicated and time consuming process, and just like starting up the computerized safety system, if something is done slightly incorrect, then the whole process will have to be restarted. Basically there’s an igniter inside of the firebox that produces a spark. The igniter is retractable and can be lowered down to the burners via controls that are located in the tender. In order to fire up Lilly, the brakes must be on. If the sensors do not detect that the brakes have been applied during the ignition sequence, than an alarm will go off and the computer will shut off the fuel line and a fire cannot be lit. Obviously, to apply the brakes, you have to have enough air in the compressor. The atomizer and the blower, which must be on when firing any oil-fired steam locomotive, are also ran by air. Now, if Lilly is still warm in the morning, she might have enough air pressure to run all 3, but if she’s starting up cold, then an external air hose must be hooked up to her until she’s built up enough pressure herself. (This also applies to Walter, Roger, and Roy) Also, there are times when the igniter will malfunction and not produce a spark, and then there are times when the igniter will produce a spark but it won’t catch, which usually means that the fuel level is low.

Ok, so you might’ve read this and are now asking the question, “How does all of that relate to the tour?”. Well, whenever the tour arrives backstage for the roundhouse portion and cab tour, the locomotives are “shut off” for safety purposes. They are not left running. So, when it’s time to leave the roundhouse and head back on stage, the locomotives must be started up again. As you now know, starting Lilly isn’t the easiest thing. If something were to go slightly wrong with the start-up process, whether it’s with the computerized safety system or the electric igniter, it could take some time to resolve the issue, on top of alarms blaring, which would be “bad show”. That’s one reason for the crew preferring Roger or Roy for tours. The other reason is they would like to be able to show guests the “old” way of firing up the locomotives by lighting the ball of fabric on fire and throwing it into the firebox, which can no longer be done with Lilly. Anyways, the crew went through extensive training on how to give tours with Lilly since they’d never used her for tours since she came back from Strasburg.

Sorry for the lengthy response, but I figured that I might as well go a little more in-depth since these changes are coming to Walter, Roger, and Roy.


Yes, and I think it’s silly if you ask me. All WDWRR railfans know that the locomotives are overhauled at Strasburg. If Disney is that concerned about the privacy of the whereabouts of the locomotives when they’re not on property, then maybe the crew and other CMs should quit telling guests that the locomotives are overhauled at a “reputable railroad museum in eastern Pennsylvania”. They can’t say “Strasburg” but they sure as heck won’t deny it. I just think it’s funny how stupid Disney pays Strasburg to act when guests ask questions about the locomotives.

Holy conniption fit on the safety and startup. I defer to my friend Mr. Scott for his take on the matter:
 

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
I can see ditching the steam generators for batteries, as it has to be easier and more reliable long term, even though I wish they would leave them as they were. That being said, why convert to the new ignition system, computerized safety system, and boiler pressure system? They automated the Monorails due to accidents and safety concerns, but were there ever any accidents on the RR due to the old way? Did they see them as inherently dangerous in some way? Seems like a step back in usability and change for the sake of change.
 

Captain Barbossa

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I can see ditching the steam generators for batteries, as it has to be easier and more reliable long term, even though I wish they would leave them as they were
Oh I would have loved it if they kept the steam generators too. Unfortunately with the computerized safety system and the electric igniter, all of that has to be on before starting Lilly, so obviously none of it could be powered by the steam generators. They considered keeping the steam generators so they could remain as the power source for the lights in the cab and the headlamp, along with the lights and the audio/sound system on the coaches, but they realized that it wasn’t necessary to have both the steam generators and the batteries, nor was there enough room for both.

but were there ever any accidents on the RR due to the old way?
Nope.

That being said, why convert to the new ignition system, computerized safety system
Did they see them as inherently dangerous in some way?
Here’s what I was able to infer from crew members.

All of this has to do with insurance. More than likely, someone on Disney’s law team or someone very high up in management realized that these locomotives are/were approaching 100 years old and didn’t expect them to still be operating for such a long time. In order to keep these locomotives running in a “insurable” and a “safe” way, Disney felt that it was necessary to make these changes.

Like everyone else, I don’t like the changes, but if it means that the locomotives remain steam powered, then I will most definitely put up with it. I look at it this way, it’s just enhanced safety features. For the most part, the locomotives still operate like they always have.

What aggravates me the most is that Disney isn’t showing any indications that they intend to make these changes on the locomotives on the DLRR. That’s not fair if you ask me. If they’re gonna do it to the WDWRR locomotives then they better do it to the DLRR locomotives. If they don’t, then it’s going to make them look stupid since they would be going against their reasons for the changes to the WDWRR locomotives. Heck, the DLRR locomotives are just as old as the WDWRR locomotives. In fact, two of them are even older. The Fred Gurley was built in 1894 and the Ward Kimball was built in 1902.
 
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trainplane3

Well-Known Member
All of this has to do with insurance.
Before you posted this, I was going to make the same exact guess. Legal/internal safety probably has a "what if" board when it comes to various things on property (probably includes the boats/steamboat) and decided this is needed so if something were to go wrong then they can turn around and say "we did XYZ to prevent this".
 

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
Interesting. Not surprised it has to do with “legal/what if” reasons, but I also find it ridiculous that it’s not happening with the DLR locos. If it’s necessary at one location, it should be at all locations, or it really isn’t necessary.
 

DisAl

Well-Known Member
Do you know what you have if you have 10,000 lawyers buried up to their necks in sand?
Not enough sand. :rolleyes:
(My apologies to the few good decent lawyers I know.)
Lawyers is another reason they won't allow anybody to ride in the cabs, not even a non-WDWRR cast member. Not even if you offer to sign a liability release form (which I did). I have worked in much more hazardous environments than a steam locomotive but that doesn't matter.
In all fairness though, it may have something to do with federal regs that don't allow anyone in the cab of a passenger train.
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
Interesting. Not surprised it has to do with “legal/what if” reasons, but I also find it ridiculous that it’s not happening with the DLR locos. If it’s necessary at one location, it should be at all locations, or it really isn’t necessary.
And considering how CA is much more uptight with safety related things, I'm surprised.

*I'm not a law "know it all" so I'm only going off of what I seem to always hear about the state*
 

Captain Barbossa

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
but I also find it ridiculous that it’s not happening with the DLR locos. If it’s necessary at one location, it should be at all locations, or it really isn’t necessary.
Exactly! Couldn’t agree with you more.

Do you know what you have if you have 10,000 lawyers buried up to their necks in sand?
Not enough sand. :rolleyes:
This is so true.

they won't allow anybody to ride in the cabs,
But that’s what I don’t understand because they allow cab rides on the DLRR. But any chance of them doing cab rides on the WDWRR is out of the question now since the tenders will no longer have the benches like they used to. They have to get rid of them when they rebuild the tenders in order to make room for the controls for the computerized safety system and the electric igniter, which is located behind the doors on Lilly’s tender where the bench used to be. Walter’s tender will be like that, and Roger’s, and eventually Roy’s.

In all fairness though, it may have something to do with federal regs that don't allow anyone in the cab of a passenger train.
Federal regulations have nothing to do with it. The WDWRR isn’t a “public passenger train service” it’s a “theme park attraction” so they don’t have to comply with the FRA.

And considering how CA is much more uptight with safety related things, I'm surprised.
That’s a good point.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
Oh I would have loved it if they kept the steam generators too. Unfortunately with the computerized safety system and the electric igniter, all of that has to be on before starting Lilly, so obviously none of it could be powered by the steam generators. They considered keeping the steam generators so they could remain as the power source for the lights in the cab and headlamp, along with the lights and the audio/sound system on the coaches, but they realized that it wasn’t necessary to have both the steam generators and the batteries, nor was there enough room for both.


Nope.



Here’s what I was able to infer from crew members.

All of this has to do with insurance. More than likely, someone on Disney’s law team or someone very high up in management realized that these locomotives are/were approaching 100 years old and didn’t expect them to still be operating for such a long time. In order to keep these locomotives running in a “insurable” and a “safe” way, Disney felt that it was necessary to make these changes.

Like everyone else, I don’t like the changes, but if it means that the locomotives remain steam powered, then I will most definitely put up with it. I look at it this way, it’s just enhanced safety features. For the most part, the locomotives still operate like they always have.

What aggravates me the most is that Disney isn’t showing any indications that they intend to make these changes on the locomotives on the DLRR. That’s not fair if you ask me. If they’re gonna do it to the WDWRR locomotives then they better do it to the DLRR locomotives. If they don’t, then it’s going to make them look stupid since they would be going against their reasons for the changes to the WDWRR locomotives. Heck, the DLRR locomotives are just as old as the WDWRR locomotives. In fact, two of them are even older. The Fred Gurley was built in 1894 and the Ward Kimball was built in 1902.
But while the same guage, the WDWRR locomotives are bigger and more powerful. They are also run by attractions at WDW while DL not run by the attractions tram, they are run by a branch of maintenance, the exact name of which escapes me at the moment.
 

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