Reservation expansion

Chi84

Premium Member
This isn't a trial for a new drug to cure a disease, its not waiting for a transplant (although there are requirements for that), it's not getting in line for a food bank....it's a vacation. It's okay to put your wants (not needs, you don't need a vacation!)
There isn’t a family in existence that starts planning their WDW vacation by saying, “What choices can we make that will result in the best experience for people who aren’t us.”

It’s up to Disney to decide on what system will give customers a chance at the best experience. That doesn’t mean making everyone equally upset at having to stand in long lines (fast or slow-moving) when there are so many other things to do. The lottery would be most fair if the proceeds were evenly distributed to all who played, but no one would play because it wouldn’t be worth it.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
So what was the proportion say 3 years ago I wonder. They didn’t ROFR anything IIRC between the park closure and sometime last summer.

I do know they made an attempt to get 2042 OKW points, but the offer was so derisory they seemed to realise it was getting them nowhere. That was obviously an attempt to sort out the legal mess they’ve created there.
Years ago they started out very small (they’d take a handful of large, cheap contracts) then grew that slowly and settled into around 10-15%. So it’s on average just about doubled since pre-closure.
 

nickys

Premium Member
Years ago they started out very small (they’d take a handful of large, cheap contracts) then grew that slowly and settled into around 10-15%. So it’s on average just about doubled since pre-closure.
Let’s see what happens over the next year or so. If it’s double what is was but they stopped altogether for 15 months or so then they might just be trying to redress the balance somewhat.

Another possibility is that they are trying to shore up the resale price just as they’re going to have Poly hit the market too. They won’t want rock bottom prices on 2 or 3 older resorts just when they have another wave of points to sell.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
Let’s see what happens over the next year or so. If it’s double what is was but they stopped altogether for 15 months or so then they might just be trying to redress the balance somewhat.

Another possibility is that they are trying to shore up the resale price just as they’re going to have Poly hit the market too. They won’t want rock bottom prices on 2 or 3 older resorts just when they have another wave of points to sell.
There would be no issue if they just used the number one tool at their disposal: direct benefits. They are their own worst enemy. But as you said, we’ll see. Maybe they do have some plans in the works.
 
My thought is that they are loading up on points and will offer them in rotation at near “active” sales prices to gauge how much people care about a 50 year term. I think one way to spread out the 2042 properties is to offer different lengths. The fact people still pay a premium for resorts with only 20 years left may have them wondering if they could get away with a 25, 30 or 40 year term, at the same price. Disney wins because they sell the points that much faster next time. If the data is there, it could be worked in for Poly2 or DLT.

Or maybe I’m way off base!
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
I agree that they are both selling more points and ROFRing more contracts. These are necessarily related items right now. They have successfully blown up the resale cost of older hotels to the point where you're looking at paying similar money for a resort with 20-35 years on the life of the contract as you would with ones that come closer to 45. One guarantees you current UY points and one is likely stripped but listed high anyway.

And the high rate of ROFR reminds people that they might go through all that to save $10 a point and have it stolen from under their noses.

I think that this is very sustainable with huge travel demand as they can still rent off those rooms at a premium to broker rentals which more than pay the per-year costs themselves, but if we hit a huge downturn in travel things will get ugly fast.
 

nickys

Premium Member
There would be no issue if they just used the number one tool at their disposal: direct benefits. They are their own worst enemy. But as you said, we’ll see. Maybe they do have some plans in the works.
DVC have obviously struck a deal with Disney over Top of the World Lounge, so they can use it as a bait for direct buyers. The running costs will presumably now be coming out of the DVC marketing budget, and they can mix both free access to “eligible” Members with paid-for events to make back some of the costs.

I think we might see more of this kind of perk being introduced. Although they need to remember the failure of the WL experiment that didn’t take off at all. In-park perks would make the most sense if they can swing it.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
DVC have obviously struck a deal with Disney over Top of the World Lounge, so they can use it as a bait for direct buyers. The running costs will presumably now be coming out of the DVC marketing budget, and they can mix both free access to “eligible” Members with paid-for events to make back some of the costs.

I think we might see more of this kind of perk being introduced. Although they need to remember the failure of the WL experiment that didn’t take off at all. In-park perks would make the most sense if they can swing it.

Unfortunately, in-park perks cost DVC money, and I'm guessing Bob/Josh are wanting a high price for any in-park benefits right now. I'm guessing this is exactly why we have seen many removed.
 

nickys

Premium Member
Unfortunately, in-park perks cost DVC money, and I'm guessing Bob/Josh are wanting a high price for any in-park benefits right now. I'm guessing this is exactly why we have seen many removed.
But if there was an empty space somewhere (<cough> Stich’s great escape <cough>) that wasn’t getting used, then maybe DVC could come to an arrangement like they did in Epcot.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
But if there was an empty space somewhere (<cough> Stich’s great escape <cough>) that wasn’t getting used, then maybe DVC could come to an arrangement like they did in Epcot.
That's a great idea. The perplexing thing to me is that there are a lot of people on both the AP and DVC side that really contain untapped revenue in terms of premium offerings/memberships. Club 33 is a spit in the bucket and a fringe group. There should be a program available for their most loyal guests.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
For any system like this to work, there must be losers for there to be winners unless the park is slow enough to give everyone a reasonable wait time.

You say it doesn't negatively impact anyone and then quickly go back to your "everyone has a choice" argument so which is it?

You can't put everyone at the front of that line, right?

Given your feelings about what is fair and what isn't, why wouldn't you be on board with a more exclusive $1,000 lighting lane option?

What's the problem?
No there doesn't. The Fact someone wants to pay more, or put in more work/effort to cut a line, doesn't make them a winner any more than someone who wants to stay off property or wants to take a spur of the moment trip to take advantage of rate discounts on travel, lodging, ect is a loser. Its a choice.

You can't put everyone in box seats for the Sox for the playoffs. Not everyone is going to get the same view, that doesn't mean the season ticket holders who get first choice at buying playoff tickets are winners while people who are sitting in the bleachers are losers.

There is no one line to put everyone in front of. There are multiple lines, with people entering and exiting them at all different times throughout the day. Both the FP system and Genie+ allowed everyone to got to the front of some of the lines. If I got a FP for PotC on Monday at 1PM, and guest B couldn't get that exact ride/time FP, but got 7DM at that time, or got PotC on Tuesday instead, it makes our selections different. One isn't a winner and one isn't a looser.

As for your $1,000 option (a little steep but I get your point, make it more expense and more exclusive) it would be good for me personally as I would pay and it would benefit me and my family maybe even more than either FP or the current genie plus model. But that doesn't mean I think WDW should do it, or that it is in WDW best interest. I think they would take a huge PR hit, being viewed as elitest and favoring the rich (I can see DeSantis making it a direct mailing campaign now) and I don't think it would be profitable. Marketing to a larger consumer base with smaller individual transactions has been shown to create more revenue, especially when paired with online ap based purchasing. Its why many online games have moved to micro-transaction type models instead of larger up front game fees. WDW wants everyone purchasing its line skip. Many customers wouldn't lay out $1000 per family member when purchasing a trip. But they will pay 15 bucks on Monday, and then 10 for the LL, and then 15 on Tuesday because "I have already spent X, what's $15 more...and then $12 more...ect.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
I never liked this argument when it came to vacations.

Some people who "play the game" will benefit more than others who don't. That's the way it is.
Some people who pay more will benefit more than others who don't. That's the way it is.
Some people will just get lucky every time with getting a boarding group, others won't. That's the way it is.

This isn't a trial for a new drug to cure a disease, its not waiting for a transplant (although there are requirements for that), it's not getting in line for a food bank....it's a vacation. It's okay to put your wants (not needs, you don't need a vacation!) first.
I've benefited from some of the things Disney has done and others have benefited instead of me at times. (obviously I don't mean by wants, go stand in front of a small child at a parade or something like that... :D )

If something works for someone, it's taken away and now what's in it's place isn't as good, of course that person would be annoyed.

And if they want to offer a lightening lane option for people willing to pay $1000, then so be it. Someone would pay it and I wouldn't begrudge them.

Don't hate the player. Hate the game all the way.

Nobody optimizing their usage of any of these systems created the game.

But when someone spends thousands of dollars on their vacation and they have to both plan and roll the dice on certain aspects of it like they're headed to a black Friday sale (in store or online), it feels like there is a problem there, to me.

To each their own.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
No there doesn't. The Fact someone wants to pay more, or put in more work/effort to cut a line, doesn't make them a winner any more than someone who wants to stay off property or wants to take a spur of the moment trip to take advantage of rate discounts on travel, lodging, ect is a loser. Its a choice.

You can't put everyone in box seats for the Sox for the playoffs. Not everyone is going to get the same view, that doesn't mean the season ticket holders who get first choice at buying playoff tickets are winners while people who are sitting in the bleachers are losers.

There is no one line to put everyone in front of. There are multiple lines, with people entering and exiting them at all different times throughout the day. Both the FP system and Genie+ allowed everyone to got to the front of some of the lines. If I got a FP for PotC on Monday at 1PM, and guest B couldn't get that exact ride/time FP, but got 7DM at that time, or got PotC on Tuesday instead, it makes our selections different. One isn't a winner and one isn't a looser.

As for your $1,000 option (a little steep but I get your point, make it more expense and more exclusive) it would be good for me personally as I would pay and it would benefit me and my family maybe even more than either FP or the current genie plus model. But that doesn't mean I think WDW should do it, or that it is in WDW best interest. I think they would take a huge PR hit, being viewed as elitest and favoring the rich (I can see DeSantis making it a direct mailing campaign now) and I don't think it would be profitable. Marketing to a larger consumer base with smaller individual transactions has been shown to create more revenue, especially when paired with online ap based purchasing. Its why many online games have moved to micro-transaction type models instead of larger up front game fees. WDW wants everyone purchasing its line skip. Many customers wouldn't lay out $1000 per family member when purchasing a trip. But they will pay 15 bucks on Monday, and then 10 for the LL, and then 15 on Tuesday because "I have already spent X, what's $15 more...and then $12 more...ect.
Genie+ shows going that route doesn't work. Revenue wise it's good but guest wise it's been awful due to lack of availability. As many people have said it's not working due to the amount of people buying it.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Genie+ shows going that route doesn't work. Revenue wise it's good but guest wise it's been awful due to lack of availability. As many people have said it's not working due to the amount of people buying it.
Maybe. I don’t trust or value complaining in surveys or message boards/blogs. That’s why before I said Disney needed to wait at least some significant sample size to see how system is being used, are your getting repeat purchasers, ect.

I will be honest I have seen more people complaining about Genie+ as a concept, but who have never used it and haven’t been at parks since it’s inception, than I have from people who are using it. Our subjective experience with it has been very good over 3 trips, including Peak time at MK on the forth of July.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Maybe. I don’t trust or value complaining in surveys or message boards/blogs. That’s why before I said Disney needed to wait at least some significant sample size to see how system is being used, are your getting repeat purchasers, ect.

I will be honest I have seen more people complaining about Genie+ as a concept, but who have never used it and haven’t been at parks since it’s inception, than I have from people who are using it. Our subjective experience with it has been very good over 3 trips, including Peak time at MK on the forth of July.
From what's been said the optimal number for Genie+ to work well is 10% of guests using it each day.

For my family if I'm paying for a skip the line system I expect more then 2-3 rides a day.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
No there doesn't. The Fact someone wants to pay more, or put in more work/effort to cut a line, doesn't make them a winner any more than someone who wants to stay off property or wants to take a spur of the moment trip to take advantage of rate discounts on travel, lodging, ect is a loser. Its a choice.

You can't put everyone in box seats for the Sox for the playoffs. Not everyone is going to get the same view, that doesn't mean the season ticket holders who get first choice at buying playoff tickets are winners while people who are sitting in the bleachers are losers.

True, you can't put everyone in box seats for the Sox playoffs. You also can't put 2/3 plus of people in the box seats, either.

Also, those people being in the box seats don't suddenly make any other seat in the stadium any worse. Those seats were always going to be what they were and anyone picking seats on the chart would have known exactly what they were getting the moment they forked over their card.

There is no one line to put everyone in front of. There are multiple lines, with people entering and exiting them at all different times throughout the day. Both the FP system and Genie+ allowed everyone to got to the front of some of the lines. If I got a FP for PotC on Monday at 1PM, and guest B couldn't get that exact ride/time FP, but got 7DM at that time, or got PotC on Tuesday instead, it makes our selections different. One isn't a winner and one isn't a looser.

You can act like all FP are created equal - that a FP for Pirates is on par with a FP for 7DM - we both know that's not true.

I know you're not stupid so why are you using that kind of argument?

As for your $1,000 option (a little steep but I get your point, make it more expense and more exclusive) it would be good for me personally as I would pay and it would benefit me and my family maybe even more than either FP or the current genie plus model. But that doesn't mean I think WDW should do it, or that it is in WDW best interest. I think they would take a huge PR hit, being viewed as elitest and favoring the rich (I can see DeSantis making it a direct mailing campaign now) and I don't think it would be profitable. Marketing to a larger consumer base with smaller individual transactions has been shown to create more revenue, especially when paired with online ap based purchasing. Its why many online games have moved to micro-transaction type models instead of larger up front game fees. WDW wants everyone purchasing its line skip. Many customers wouldn't lay out $1000 per family member when purchasing a trip. But they will pay 15 bucks on Monday, and then 10 for the LL, and then 15 on Tuesday because "I have already spent X, what's $15 more...and then $12 more...ect.

If you think $1000 is too much, how about $700? $500?

Universal can be as much as $300 but they're looking to buff the value of their higher end resorts more than they're looking to sell $300 express passes so it's sort of a different thing, there.

As for the PR hit, why would Disney care at this point? With Geni+ they're already being called elitists.

Are news articles going to start calling them extra elitists?

People are already saying they're favoring the rich. In your previous post where you are talking about choices, you pretty much agree they already are and that's their right, isn't it?

Speaking a little acerbically, maybe a move like this would help shake off some of the wheat from the chaff - get those people who were never going to spend the way Disney wanted them to to give up on their vacations before even starting them while also having the benefit of actually making a system where someone isn't supposed to feel good about being able to snag that FP or LL for Philharmagic.

Or, they could build out capacity by creating a lot more new desirable attractions so a system like the one they had and the one they have could work a little better.

Since that costs money they obviously don't want to spend, it feels like the restricted higher priced lighting lane option would be their best bet to me. I don't know what they'd have to price it to generate revenue close to what they're getting now from Genie+ but $1000 a day would make it a guest ratio of about 66:1 to what they are currently getting and that alone would have a HUGE impact on standby lines without them opening a single new attraction. No?

The irony is that many of the same people here who love to trot out their list of reasons why the old system was perfectly good (when what they couldn't bring themselves to say is "good for them") would of course, be very unhappy with this new system, I'm sure because many would be finding themselves priced out of that option but those people are far from the majority of park goers - otherwise, Disney would have found a way to monetize the old system instead of scrapping it and rolling out something most of those people hate today.

The mental gymnasctis of these people trying to express moral outrage at a system like this because it doesn't benefit them specifically the way the old system did would be entertaining.

... Plus, it would make standby lines faster.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom