Reservation expansion

[MrPromey]

We spend less when we are at Universal.

1.Food costs less at US. It comes down to choices, and of course there is variability. But apples to apples, food costs a little less at US, and if you really want to pinch pennies, they have Burger King and Panda Express. If you eat at Universal in the table service range, TS costs less than WDW options. The WDW buffet pricing is now somewhat absurd, and a significant portion of WDW's TS are buffets. It is hard to avoid them at WDW.

2. Another way to get around Universal's pricing is - generally - to buy one of their annual Passes. they come in different perk levels/prices. Generally though, they cost less than WDW AP's and come with better perks.

3. Transportation also costs a little less, though it again comes down to choices. It is easier to get around within US compared to WDW. While WDW has free transportation, getting around is often VERY slow. So there is just about zero need to pay for a taxi to get around. US is also closer to MCO, if someone is paying for transportation for the airport, US probably costs a little less.

I'm sure someone could refute these points on some level, but this has been my experience. Except right now US hotel pricing is historically high.

Just to add to that, while Universal does the refillable mug thing in the resorts, they also do it in the parks. It's a second mug but the price per mug drops as you buy additional in your party, they can be reactivated each day, and they're for Coke Freestyle machines with a whole slew of choices.

I know not everyone is crazy about Freestyle but to me it's better than the Coke, Diet Coke, Sprite or bottle of Blue Poweraid, bottle of Red Poweraid, bottle of water that is mostly all you get at Disney.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

So if you’re talking of APs are you saying you visit Universal a couple of times a year or more? Or staying for a week and reaching the break even point sooner than for WDW?

But you claimed to spend many times less than at WDW for the same amount of time.

Granted if food is a little cheaper that’s a bonus. We don’t use a taxi around WDW, we use the buses. Even if we rent a car to go offsite like to Kennedy, we never drive on site. That was a selling point to us. But again, a few taxi rides.

So maybe half the food costs and a couple of taxis a day? That isn’t “many times less”. I was assuming you meant your vacation would cost like 25% or maybe 50%. Travel from your home state / country, accommodation, food, spending.

I don't know I'm claiming much of anything. I didn't say many times less, just less per day for roughly equivalent. I don't tend to stay a full week at Universal, typically...well my visits vary.

I'd sorta say it this way: if I want to take a budget trip to Orlando, I can more easily manage to do it if I opt to visit Universal.

I'd say we save about $4-5 per person per QS meal at US.

'Ohana buffet is now $55 plus tax and tip = about $70 per adult. Cowfish = entrees$20 + soft drinks $4.50. Maybe $5 on a sweet from the Emporium =$37ish. We get a great TS for about half the price.

The Universal AP perk includes 10% off pretty much everything at US. The AP hotel discount also quickly add up, because they have typically save $100 or more per night if I stay onsite. But I don't always stay onsite at WDW or US, nor do i always have an AP. Soemone else might say having an AP saved them $.

When WDW deluxe hotels have run $700+/night, the US ones often run more like $325.


With a lot of qualifiers, it is possible someone staying at US could save quite a bit compared to doing roughly the same at Universal.

What I'm not saying is you personally (or anyone else) would save that much. If someone eats only delivered groceries, for example, then their food would cost the same no matter where they stay. The Fairfield hotels close to WDW also cost roughly the same as the Fairfield hotels that are close to US. That is why I put heavy qualifiers on my earlier reply.

 

[nickys]

I don't know I'm claiming much of anything. I didn't say many times less, just less per day for roughly equivalent. I don't tend to stay a full week at Universal, typically...well my visits vary.

I'd sorta say it this way: if I want to take a budget trip to Orlando, I can more easily manage to do it if I opt to visit Universal.

I'd say we save about $4-5 per person per QS meal at US.

'Ohana buffet is now $55 plus tax and tip = about $70 per adult. Cowfish = entrees$20 + soft drinks $4.50. Maybe $5 on a sweet from the Emporium =$37ish. We get a great TS for about half the price.

The Universal AP perk includes 10% off pretty much everything at US. The AP hotel discount also quickly add up, because they have typically save $100 or more per night if I stay onsite. But I don't always stay onsite at WDW or US, nor do i always have an AP. Soemone else might say having an AP saved them $.

When WDW deluxe hotels have run $700+/night, the US ones often run more like $325.


With a lot of qualifiers, it is possible someone staying at US could save quite a bit compared to doing roughly the same at Universal.

What I'm not saying is you personally (or anyone else) would save that much. If someone eats only delivered groceries, for example, then their food would cost the same no matter where they stay. The Fairfield hotels close to WDW also cost roughly the same as the Fairfield hotels that are close to US. That is why I put heavy qualifiers on my earlier reply.

I don’t think you were the person who I originally replied to! Because they did say it was costing them many times less. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying about the savings all adding up.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Just to add to that, while universal does the refillable mug thing in the resorts, they also do it in the parks. It's a second mug but the price per mug drops as you buy additional in your party, they can be reactivated each day, and they're for Coke Freestyle machines with a whole slew of choices.

I know not everyone is crazy about Freestyle but to me it's better than the Coke, Diet Coke, Sprite or bottle of Blue Poweraid, bottle of Red Poweraid, bottle of water that is mostly all you get at Disney.

In the parks, we actually tend to drink water much of the time. The Freestyle machines are fun though, so sometimes I get a soft drink. I love all the options they offer.

At WDW, you can get paper cups of water at the QS, but they take time, and often the cups are small. We end up buying a case of bottled water someplace outside the parks. Partly we lug around water, partly we ask for water. Once in a while I get a soft drink. I'm weird though because I prefer watered down juice or lemonade over soda. If I'm ever at a QS that lets me fill my own cup, mine is usually half water.

While at Universal, I love that the Coke machines allow me to get unlimited ice water.

One more way Universal makes touring easy, while WDW goes out of their way to make a simple task overly complicated.

It is dumb. WDW says they want to be PC and green and all, but it is just lip service if they aren't providing easy ice water all over WDW to everyone for free.

 

[MrPromey]

You're missing the point. If there's no more line skip, then you either have to wait 45 minutes or you don't go. The number of people moving through a queue doesn't change that much. The actual number of people in line gets longer.

If there's 1000 people in a standby line with line skip, and 1000 people who go through line skip while those 1000 people are waiting on average, then you take away line skip and those 1000 people have to go somewhere. Now, a portion of them won't wait in line - maybe 20%. But now you have a standby line with 1800 people in it, not 1000. So it ends up being a physically longer line. But, since they aren't stopping to allow line skippers through, it moves physically faster. You're moving more often. But since there's now more people in that single line, the actual wait time doesn't change all that much. Maybe 10-20% shorter (some lines actually get longer during peak times, because line skip helps distribute people to less crowded times like later in the day).

And this isn't my opinion, this is backed by the data of pre-LL vs post-LL. Wait times climbed, but not by a whole lot. Take July 14, 2021, which was a CL-5 day, with no line skip: Average standby wait time for a number of attractions:

• HM: 56 minutes
• SM: 66 minutes
• PotC: 54 minutes
• Splash: 66 minutes
• BtmR: 42 minutes

Now lets take another CL5 day from this year, July 8, 2022, with Genie+, same rides:

• HM: 45 minutes
• SM: 54 minutes
• PotC: 40 minutes
• Splash: 66 minutes
• BtmR: 35 minutes

Roughly equivalent. In fact, the Genie+ times were actually better than the non-Genie+ times. FP+ did inflate wait times more - a similar day in 2019 (7/6/2019)

• HM: 51
• SM: 81
• PotC: 38
• Splash: 75
• BtmR: 40

But at the end of the day, wait times for most attractions were close, even with FP+. With the exception of FP+ and Space Mountain, the average wait time always fell within 10-15 minutes of each other, and were sometimes even higher without line skip.

What was the source for your numbers? I'd be interested in seeing how those numbers play out across all attractions in all four parks, what the comparable hours were for the days in question, etc. We know that in the no FP+ and no LL days of 2021, there was less staffing which affected capacity in various areas and options were different in the parks than especially they were in 2019 but also this month in 2022 so even with that, you're overlooking variables that would likely hurt your examples.

I feel it's a safe assumption that certain attractions have had a higher FP+ allotment and higher LL allotment than others based on overall capacity and demand.

Basic math would suggest that for something with an all day line, and a starting wait of 50 minutes when you direct people to a line skipping program (assuming those people end up waiting about 10 minutes in their shorter line) that you should see around a 10 minute increase in wait times for every 20% you direct that way.

Real world is more complicated of course but again, using TSMM as my example since we know they have two tracks dedicated just to FP/LL vs. one that isn't which at least during FP+ also got some of those people, we have an idea of what the percentage is for that one attraction. We can only guess at things like 7DMT and FOP but one would have to assume, it was at least as many, right?

 

[MrPromey]

... I'm weird though because I prefer watered down juice or lemonade over soda. If I'm ever at a QS that lets me fill my own cup, mine is usually half water...

I'm with you on the watered down juice.

For freestyle, I consider their vitamin water selection kind of an (artificial) alternative.

Ugg... the lugging around bottles of water. I've spent a decent chunk of my life as that pack-mule. While I no longer have to worry about carrying that overstuffed backpack all day AND having a kid on my shoulders for half of it, I've reached a point where I'd rather buy a bottle of something they're charging more for than a gallon of gas if it means not having to deal with that all day, now.*

As for the free water at WDW, it feels overly difficult and embarrassing the way you have to get it to me. They may not have set it up that way on purpose but clearly, they have zero incentive to make it any easier or more convenient, do they?


*and I don't mean that in a "I'm too good to be bothered with that now" or "I don't miss the money as much as I used to" kind of thing. I mean it more as a "fine, I'll play your game - I'm tired" kind of thing. That's generally how I felt about a lot of my WDW trips over the last few years leading up to the covid lockdown - everything felt expensive and like more trouble than it was worth. It's why I have passes now for Universal instead and honestly, my son at his current age loves everything HP there far more than he did anything at WDW so.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm with you on the watered down juice.

For freestyle, I consider their vitamin water selection kind of an (artificial) alternative.

Ugg... the lugging around bottles of water. I've spent a decent chunk of my life as that pack-mule. While I no longer have to worry about carrying that overstuffed backpack all day AND having a kid on my shoulders for half of it, I've reached a point where I'd rather buy a bottle of something they're charging more for than a gallon of gas if it means not having to deal with that all day, now.*

As for the free water at WDW, it feels overly difficult and embarrassing the way you have to get it for me. They may not have set it up that way on purpose but clearly, they have zero incentive to make it any easier or more convenient, do they?


*and I don't mean that in a "I'm too good to be bothered with that now" or "I don't miss the money as much as I used to" kind of thing. I mean it more as a "fine, I'll play your game - I'm tired" kind of thing. That's generally how I felt about a lot of my WDW trips over the last few years leading up to the covid lockdown - everything felt expensive and like more trouble than it was worth. It's why I have passes now for Universal instead and honestly, my son at his current age loves everything HP there far more than he did anything at WDW so.

I agree with everything that you said. This may come off rude.

IMO why many Disney guests don't give it a chance is they aren't enamoured with Universal IP. It's the same reason many don't do regional parks. A lot of Disney guests aren't ride people.

 

[Chi84]

A lot of Disney guests aren't ride people.

This is absolutely true. It's one big reason Disney is having such a hard time evaluating what its guests will pay for a skip the line system.

 

[bhg469]

I agree with everything that you said. This may come off rude.

IMO why many Disney guests don't give it a chance is they aren't enamoured with Universal IP. It's the same reason many don't do regional parks. A lot of Disney guests aren't ride people.

Which to me is funny because I'm not a Pandora person and I think flight of passage is super overrated yet I love Pandora. Same thing with the potter sections. The lands are worth seeing just to experience theme park perfection.

 

[MrPromey]

I agree with everything that you said. This may come off rude.

IMO why many Disney guests don't give it a chance is they aren't enamoured with Universal IP. It's the same reason many don't do regional parks. A lot of Disney guests aren't ride people.

Personally, I'm an everything person but my son at his age prefers rides over shows. He'd sit through Nemo but he would not be excited to be there. He'd go to LOTLK and have a good time but he'd grumble about it until things really got started.

I love Impressions de France but I have to admit, making a kid sit through that knowing half of it doesn't look like that anymore and that most of the people shown were likely dead of old age before he was born makes me feel guilty about even trying to push something like that.

As for the IP, my boy loves Disney and Marvel movies. He also loves Harry Potter, and Jurassic World (yuck) and while he hasn't seen MIB yet, he prefers the ride to Space Rangers Spin, etc... When he was younger, there simply wasn't much he could do at Uni but now that he's tall enough and emotionally old enough to deal with everything but the big coasters it is proving to be a better fit.

As for Marvel, it's funny because Universal has Spiderman - a slightly different one but he LOVES it and while he may be able to handle Guardians, I'm nervous, based on the reports about how our stomachs would do.

 

[Jrb1979]

Personally, I'm an everything person but my son at his age prefers rides over shows. He'd sit through Nemo but he would not be excited to be there. He'd go to LOTLK and have a good time but he'd grumble about it until things really got started.

I love Impressions de France but I have to admit, making a kid sit through that knowing half of it doesn't look like that anymore and that most of the people shown were likely dead of old age before he was born makes me feel guilty about even trying to push something like that.

As for the IP. My kid loves Disney and Marvel movies. He also loves Harry Potter, and Jurassic World (yuck) and while he hasn't seen MIB yet, he prefers the ride to Space Rangers Spin, etc... When he was younger, there simply wasn't much he could do at Uni but now that he's tall enough and emotionally old enough to deal with everything but the big coasters.

As for Marvel, it's funny because Universal has Spiderman - a slightly different one but he LOVES it and while he may be able to handle Guardians, I'm nervous, based on the reports about how our stomachs would do.

For us the big coasters are the draw. Right now since my body can handle them we travel the country visiting new parks for new credits. Also cause my kid is only 2 she only is interested in Peppa pig

 

[Touchdown]

I spend a week at Universal, I may cheat for a day by going to Sea World or BGT but I can and have done the full week ever since VB. Once Epic opens, I’m pretty sure I’ll stop cheating.

 

[zombiebbq]

Serious question…. How many times less?

Presumably the cost of travelling to Universal is the same as travelling to WDW. So it comes down to the cost of the tickets &/or hotel.

From what I can see the cost of tickets is comparable between the two parks. Both front load the cost, so the first few days cost more than adding days.

Which leaves the hotel. And you could stay offsite and spend the same amount.

So whilst I can absolutely see that planning a Universal vacation is a heck of a lot easier than planning a WDW one, I can’t really see this “many times less cost” argument, unless you stay onsite at the respective resorts. What’s the secret?

The hotel is costing us about half of what I was seeing from Disney for a comparable property (and we are not doing top tier). And we won't be paying for their version of line skipping, because I really don't think we'd need it. Couldn't say that for Disney. I also know we will be spending less on food, but that is more due to what we prefer to eat in Disney vs. what I'm planning for us to try in Universal. It was just a great deal all around.

 

[MrPromey]

For us the big coasters are the draw. Right now since my body can handle them we travel the country visiting new parks for new credits. Also cause my kid is only 2 she only is interested in Peppa pig

So a trip to Legoland Florida is in your future!

Seriously, the Peppa Pig park isn't all that big but there are a surprising number of rides and experience crammed in there for what it is.

She'll be in hog heaven!*


*pun totally intended

 

[MrPromey]

The hotel is costing us about half of what I was seeing from Disney for a comparable property (and we are not doing top tier). And we won't be paying for their version of line skipping, because I really don't think we'd need it. Couldn't say that for Disney. I also know we will be spending less on food, but that is more due to what we prefer to eat in Disney vs. what I'm planning for us to try in Universal. It was just a great deal all around.

Modern Universal feels like a clear case of "We're #2 so we try harder".

On top of everything else, I see reports on here about how Disney can't get enough front-line cast, how some of them seem stressed out and rude, etc.

Having been to Universal a few times in the last few months, I have to say that I've yet to encounter anyone working there that wasn't enthusiastic which is actually quite shocking because I remember things being very much the opposite the last time we were there years ago.

In terms of the level of staffing, I don't know if it was supervisor level management on their feet or they really had that many people out working but on all three trips, there were people standing around in pathways waving and telling people they were happy to have us there and asking passers-by if they needed help finding anything.

It felt a whole lot like I remember Disney being at one time but not how I remember Disney being the last few years we went (pre-pandemic) and certainly not the way people who've been recently talk about it.

As someone who ten years ago, would have argued until they were blue in the face about which was better in regards to cleanliness and courtesy from staff (not Universal), it's surreal to witness.

 

[Hawg G]

Serious question…. How many times less?

Presumably the cost of travelling to Universal is the same as travelling to WDW. So it comes down to the cost of the tickets &/or hotel.

From what I can see the cost of tickets is comparable between the two parks. Both front load the cost, so the first few days cost more than adding days.

Which leaves the hotel. And you could stay offsite and spend the same amount.

So whilst I can absolutely see that planning a Universal vacation is a heck of a lot easier than planning a WDW one, I can’t really see this “many times less cost” argument, unless you stay onsite at the respective resorts. What’s the secret?

Have you never really looked at Universal tickets? At about day 3 of Disney tickets, you can have an annual pass, yeah they still sell them, at Universal.

 

[Amidala]

Have you never really looked at Universal tickets? At about day 3 of Disney tickets, you can have an annual pass, yeah they still sell them, at Universal.

Yeah, as a FL resident I pay a little more than $15 a month for my Universal AP. I don’t go often but it’s so cheap the cost is basically negligible. The blockouts on the lowest tier are extremely reasonable (usually all of Dec., a few weeks for Spring break and all of July) compared with the more expensive monthly fee for my Pixie Dust Pass which blocks you out every weekend and all holidays.

That being said, in my exp. park hoppers at Universal are often even more expensive than Disney, especially for guests traveling out of state…and that’s for two parks rather than four, so I guess there are a lot of factors.

 

[nickys]

Have you never really looked at Universal tickets? At about day 3 of Disney tickets, you can have an annual pass, yeah they still sell them, at Universal.

Since we only have 7 or 14 day tickets for Disney then visiting Universal is always an extra expense for us.

From what I could tell, the ticket prices were about the same between Disney and Universal. But if you can really get an annual pass that’s cheaper than a 4-day ticket at Universal then that’s amazing. It would also get you AP discounts on the hotel rooms.

 

[MrPromey]

Since we only have 7 or 14 day tickets for Disney then visiting Universal is always an extra expense for us.

From what I could tell, the ticket prices were about the same between Disney and Universal. But if you can really get an annual pass that’s cheaper than a 4-day ticket at Universal then that’s amazing. It would also get you AP discounts on the hotel rooms.

That discount applies to food and merch as well and unlike Disney there don't appear to be carve-out exceptions.

So far, it's worked for me everywhere - even food carts and drink carts which to my recollection were always no bueno at Disney as well as the HP land where I expected to be told it didn't apply due to licensing on wands or butter beer or whatever.

I assume when you get 10% off a Lard Lad doughnut in Simpson's land, Disney gets their whole licensing fee and Universal takes the 10% out of their cut.

 

[Ayla]

again as a resort guest as this was a perk to book early i dk how it was a negative experience & disney should be concerned 1st and foremost about those customers & again the initial reason given was people didnt like it bc if the advanced planning now its switched to a system that didnt work... so i ask again which one are we going with today? No system will be perfect , Genie is awful & honestly the only thing worse they can do is create a system that prices most families out and go full standby for everyone else bc the parks CANT hold the capacity....

You have been very clear about how you use the DAS system. That basically makes any other arguments you make irrelevant.