Reservation expansion

[MrPromey]

AP discounts was used as a selling tool for direct among other perks. They don't have to keep them, but with prices at $200 a point they seem to want to offer perks. In fact more perks now I notice than when I bought in ages ago. Though I know initially the park tickets for half the occupancy was around at the beginning too. I'd be okay with that if they brought that back again

So they did hook people into half century contracts using benefits and perks (financial ones) they were able to strip away any time they wanted.

Again, I can see nobody looking for that kind of stuff written into the contract because, well, it was Disney and their reputation was almost beyond reproach but here we are today and a DVC reservation alone doesn't even guarantee you you'll be able to buy entry to the parks on your visit during a normal trip.

 

[Anteater]

So they did hook people into half century contracts using benefits and perks (financial ones) they were able to strip away any time they wanted.

Again, I can see nobody looking for that kind of stuff written into the contract because, well, it was Disney and their reputation was almost beyond reproach but here we are today and a DVC reservation alone doesn't even guarantee you you'll be able to buy entry to the parks on your visit during a normal trip.

I don't really follow DVC... Are people selling their contracts due to this? If not, that's part of the problem...

 

[Vacationeer]

So they did hook people into half century contracts using benefits and perks (financial ones) they were able to strip away any time they wanted.

It’s funny… the current wording for perks is ‘3 years or less’. Basically zero commitment. Might be 3 years, or 3 seconds.

 

[crazy4disney]

It worked for you, and I'd guess 98%+ of the participants of this forum. But plenty of guests either didn't know how or even that they could modify FP+ and get 4, 5, 6 ... attractions in a day. Or which attractions to skip on FP+ and get in the standby (Mad Tea while waiting 25min for Space, for example). That may not be Disney's problem, directly, but the lowering GS scores were/are. Surely they've seen recent vlogs and read pages like these where guests are less than thrilled with G+, park hopping as is, and to a likely lesser extent, park reservations. If afternoon AP entries and some modifications to hopping hours or logistics are next steps, then I hope they make sense and start trying to right some of the recent wrongs. We'd love to return, but things are a mess right now from 1,600 miles away and we aren't quite ready to bite the bullet.

so because people are lazy or incompetent or did absolutely zero hw or paid attention its suppose to be other peoples fault? think about what you/they are saying if this is remotely true.... they literally send emails and tell you when you book... a TA will do the same heck some even book for you... so now we have this mess... to me ALL excuses to charge for something which was perfectly fine as almost ALL parks do that already

 

[crazy4disney]

From Disney's perspective (at least what used to be their perspective) though, every minute that you are in a line is a minute that you are not spending money. They have a clear financial incentive to make sure standby lines are as short as possible. When major headliners (I'm looking at you 7 dwarves and Flight of Passage), have 3 hour plus waits on standby, you had to know FP+ days were numbered. Heck the "new" system is almost identical to the old fastpass tickets, except everything is virtual. Wouldn't it be great if they re-installed the ticket dispensers in front of the rides and had you pay to access (I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just trying to point out the FP+ was awful).

& ill argue till im blue in the face FP+ was NOT awful... it was great for a resort guest & even better for anyone who had a clue how to use it and use it properly.

 

[Tha Realest]

But back in the day... say 20 years ago, at the start of the contracts many now have, were these stripped benefits touted as selling points to get you in the door?

I feel for the DVC'ers. The takeaway of DME adds easily another $200-250 per trip for a family of 4/5. For those expecting to take multiple trips a year, that really adds up quickly.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

The DVC market is under tremendous stress, yes. The volume of resale contracts has increased significantly and Disney has been forced to purchase obscene numbers of them via Right of First Refusal to keep the resale market from imploding. They are holding a significant number of direct points on their books at all sold out resorts. I don't know how much longer they can keep their finger in the dam.

As for selling DVC under marketed benefits, those benefits were always subject to modification and/or removal. That's not really the issue. The issue is I have no idea how they plan to move all of these direct points they've accumulated via ROFR on top of points still in inventory at Aulani and Riviera and on top of even more points coming at the Poly and GF all without adding benefits back. They have to do something.

 

[MrPromey]

the old lines will be moving constantly debate.... im sorry 60 minutes is still 60 minutes & if i understand you are admitting that no time will be saved vs FP where you had 3 skip the line rides quality onbes and ability to add during day.... yet somehow removing FP was a good thing? im extremely baffled w this one

60 minutes is 60 minutes - you're exactly right but the length of a line and the time you wait in it are two entirely different things.

The same amount of space it takes to hold a slow moving line for 60 minutes can be used to hold a fast moving line for 20.

Is the line just as long? Yes. Do the people in it get to the attraction faster? Also yes.

With a line cutting system, a minority in that line will benefit while the majority will suffer as a result. Without the line cutting benefit, the majority in the line will benefit.

On a person-by-person basis, will it be as much of an improvement as the people who were cutting the line got?

Of course not - we're just changing how the same number of people get on the same attraction with limited capacity.

This is the part I think you are missing. Imagine for a second that you were ALWAYS the person in line - EVERY SINGLE SPOT, you were the one who had to wait, ALWAYS.

Can you see how this would improve things for you?

Now imagine that instead of being the person who ALWAYS has to wait, you're just the person who ALWAYS has to wait for the top tier attractions. Can you see how these people might prefer a more level system?

I get it, you want to keep cutting. You never want to be one of the losers in that long line - nobody does - but for those sorry sad suckers, do you understand how this would be seen as an improvement?

 

[MrPromey]

It’s funny… the current wording for perks is ‘3 years or less’. Basically zero commitment. Might be 3 years, or 3 seconds.

Again, old Disney, I'd never think twice about this.

"Of course they're going to take care of me."

New Disney feels like a cross between a car sales man (sorry to all car sales people) and someone offering to pay you cash for a kidney in a hotel room with a tub full of ice waiting for you.

 

[correcaminos]

So they did hook people into half century contracts using benefits and perks (financial ones) they were able to strip away any time they wanted.

Again, I can see nobody looking for that kind of stuff written into the contract because, well, it was Disney and their reputation was almost beyond reproach but here we are today and a DVC reservation alone doesn't even guarantee you you'll be able to buy entry to the parks on your visit during a normal trip.

Not entirely. When they started selling the admission for half occupancy was flat out stated when it would end. Then no meaningful perks for years. Now AP access to one of the FL resident levels. Better discounts and the lounges. A few others as well.

 

[matt9112]

Focus on the other parks, but don’t look forward to Carowinds. We went last summer while visiting family in Charlotte and it was underwhelming at best. Revisit a better Cedar Fair park in Ohio unless you’re trying to tick all of them off your list.

Carowinds still has what is probably the best roller coaster in North America. Sure park is very six flags but the coasters are legit.

 

[MrPromey]

so because people are lazy or incompetent or did absolutely zero hw or paid attention its suppose to be other peoples fault? think about what you/they are saying if this is remotely true.... they literally send emails and tell you when you book... a TA will do the same heck some even book for you... so now we have this mess... to me ALL excuses to charge for something which was perfectly fine as almost ALL parks do that already

You are missing the point.

There were limited spots available to reserve. (do to the capacity problems we agree on)

You're calling people lazy or incompetent because they got in there to book it after YOU, specifically.

What would you call yourself if those same people had managed to get in ahead of you and shut you out of it?

It's not like everyone had an equal or fair chance at nabbing this stuff - it wasn't even equal for resort guests since your window for booking was based on your total length of stay.

I get it - it worked FOR YOU.

Do you at least admit that for as much of a benefit this system was for you, the only reason it worked for you is because it had to negatively impact a lot of other people's trips?

Again, it's the same number of spaces on the same number of attractions either way. When demand is 100% all day, the only way for one person to get on faster is for someone else to wait longer and not all fastpasses were even close to equal - you understand this, right?

 

[matt9112]

You’re suggesting they spend hundreds of millions (if not billions) just to alleviate the current attendance levels without adding any additional revenue?

Adding capacity costs money. When companies spend money they need to make more money. Making more money means more guests. This is not the simple problem you believe it is.

Sometimes you have to capx things…without a direct ROI.

 

[MrPromey]

Not entirely. When they started selling the admission for half occupancy was flat out stated when it would end. Then no meaningful perks for years. Now AP access to one of the FL resident levels. Better discounts and the lounges. A few others as well.

Except they aren't offering the AP access at all (for DVC), are they?

I guess if people have never let their passes lapse, it might not seem that way?

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Sometimes you have to capx things…without a direct ROI.

I don't disagree with that, they just won't do it. The simplest way to do this though would be entertainment, but we know how that's going lately.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

So they did hook people into half century contracts using benefits and perks (financial ones) they were able to strip away any time they wanted.

Again, I can see nobody looking for that kind of stuff written into the contract because, well, it was Disney and their reputation was almost beyond reproach but here we are today and a DVC reservation alone doesn't even guarantee you you'll be able to buy entry to the parks on your visit during a normal trip.

When my wife and I bought, the DVC rep was very straightforward in telling us that we should buy for the rooms and not for any specific perk because they can change or disappear. However, I think there will always be some perks available unless Disney decides to stop selling points directly (which I don't see happening). Buying direct still gets you discounts on shopping and dining at certain places, Moonlight Magic events, no restrictions on which resorts you can book (aside from the 11-month/7-month restrictions for home resorts vs any other resort) while Riviera is limited to direct sales and grandfathered resale owners only (and resale Riviera owners can't use their points anywhere else), plus there are the occasional cash room discounts available that are separate from the discounts available to everyone else. I would LOVE the AP discount again. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy that they ended it, but I don't feel duped or tricked over it.

 

[correcaminos]

Except they aren't offering the AP access at all (for DVC), are they?

I guess if people have never let their passes lapse, it might not seem that way?

They suspended all AP new sales. As a renewal I still have access. I think it they removed it from just DVC it'd be one thing. Considering it is still a newer perk it's not a bait and switch feel.

 

[MrPromey]

They suspended all AP new sales. As a renewal I still have access. I think it they removed it from just DVC it'd be one thing. Considering it is still a newer perk it's not a bait and switch feel.

Fair enough.

 

[crazy4disney]

60 minutes is 60 minutes - you're exactly right but the length of a line and the time you wait in it are two entirely different things.

The same amount of space it takes to hold a slow moving line for 60 minutes can be used to hold a fast moving line for 20.

Is the line just as long? Yes. Do the people in it get to the attraction faster? Also yes.

With a line cutting system, a minority in that line will benefit while the majority will suffer as a result. Without the line cutting benefit, the majority in the line will benefit.

On a person-by-person basis, will it be as much of an improvement as the people who were cutting the line got?

Of course not - we're just changing how the same number of people get on the same attraction with limited capacity.

This is the part I think you are missing. Imagine for a second that you were ALWAYS the person in line - EVERY SINGLE SPOT, you were the one who had to wait, ALWAYS.

Can you see how this would improve things for you?

Now imagine that instead of being the person who ALWAYS has to wait, you're just the person who ALWAYS has to wait for the tip tier attractions. Can you see how these people might prefer a more level system?

I get it, you want to keep cutting. You never want to be one of the losers in that long line but for those sorry sad suckers, do you understand how this would be seen as an improvement?

not sure how to respond to this but ill keep it short and sweet... if you were always stuck in long lines w FP no system will help you

 

[zombiebbq]

Most of my trips were pre-Chapek era P&R. I've been there a few times since. The difference? I saw this coming. And I know what they used to be capable of doing, and what their philosophies were about guests vs. the current management trend of calling them consumers and treating them like walking ATM's. I have standards and I'm not apologizing for them.

As to how attached I am? Outside of a trip planned to meet non-US friends later this year, I have zero plans and less than zero desire to return for the foreseeable future. I have a problem with a company thinking it needs its hand in my wallet on a constant basis, or thinking that charging people more for a lessened experience is somehow good business, or "pay for shorter lines" is a valid park strategy. I also have a general disdain for those who reward that company's line of thinking by continually giving that company their vacation dollars. Your choices matter, despite what you may believe. Every time you give them your credit card information, you reinforce their pay-more strategy.

Vote with your wallet.

Bingo! And it's sad to see people bending over backwards to defend this nonsense. Disney is exorbitantly expensive, and for the amount of money shelled out to visit, they should be doing everything they can to make their guests' vacations easier. Instead they actively work to do the opposite . I actually laughed to myself when I started researching for our Uni trip, because it's been 15 years since I've been there, and I quickly realized I don't need to pull my hair out pre-vacation. Oh and it's costing us many times less than a Disney vacation. Thanks Universal!