Reservation expansion

[Jrb1979]

Agreed on both fronts but if they stop providing line cuts in mass (whatever they want to call it) those long lines will move faster.

Will it be as fast as the line cutting? Obviously not but for everyone in the long line being cut, it'll be a better experience.

Agreed and it's why skip the line passes are limited at every other park

 

[bhg469]

Agreed and it's why skip the line passes are limited at every other park

And much more expensive!

 

[crazy4disney]

No but it's like that at every park. I'm sorry but Disney guests have been spoiled by being able to skip lines for top attractions for so long.

& thats a bad thing why? unless you rather spend your vacation on long standby lines... ill say this why would someone really want to come back to ride the same thing over and over again from a company who has let rides rot etc knowing that lines will be long waits etc... i dont know any kids now that actually would find that fun and amusing and say daddy daddy i cant wait to go back....

 

[MrPromey]

Exactly. It's really just a sleazy move at this point. During the paused AP sales time period, they could've offered a temporary day ticket discount to DVC members.

I am not a DVC member but this whole experience reinforces my "get it in writing" mindset.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like the availability of discounted APs is something that was used as a selling tool for DVC but because Disney was not contractually bound to keep providing that "perk" they were able to cut it off for everyone.

Is that about right?

To which I mean, the part about them talking about a benifit on a long-term sale that they weren't obligated to maintain for the life of the sale?

A part of me always wants to say "sucker!" when people fall for this stuff but there was a time I could not have fathomed Disney stooping to the level of pulling this kind of crap on anyone - be it their best long-term customers or some dude off the street with a day ticket.

This used to be the company known for bending over backwards to make things right for their guests.

I might have the wrong idea about all of this but having heard so much anger from so many DVC members over this issue, I have to think it was presented as a perk up front to encourage sales at some point and not just something members found out about in their welcome package after signing the contract.

 

[sullyinMT]

No but it's like that at every park. I'm sorry but Disney guests have been spoiled by being able to skip lines for top attractions for so long.

Agreed on both fronts but if they stop providing line cuts in mass (whatever they want to call it) those long lines will move faster.

Will it be as fast as the line cutting? Obviously not but for everyone in the long line being cut, it'll be a better experience.

I agree with both of you. It's part of why Genie+ doesn't seem to work too well (I haven't visited since it's inception). While there were ways to make FP+ work for the individual with a penchant for planning, it's universal application to all guests cut the experience to relatively pointless.

What makes Universal's Express Pass work is relative exclusivity. A small number of hotel guests and people willing to shell the cost of their ticket or more, plus a relative handful of high-tier AP after 4pm.

I'm not DVC and I've never stayed club level or villa, but I've also never understood the relative lack of tangible in-park benefits for those guests. Deluxe resorts in all rooms might water down line cutting too much still in a crowded and capacity lacking WDW park (any of the 4), but the top level of top tier and those most loyal guests that "own" a piece of the pie should get something more than petit fours and lounges.

 

[crazy4disney]

Agreed on both fronts but if they stop providing line cuts in mass (whatever they want to call it) those long lines will move faster.

Will it be as fast as the line cutting? Obviously not but for everyone in the long line being cut, it'll be a better experience.

an hour is still an hour 90 minutes is still 90 minutes will lines be reduced possibly but people act like all of a sudden lines are gonna magically be reduced to 15 min waits and headliners be way shorter... i dont see it simple as that....

 

[MrPromey]

Every corporate decision and prerogative makes sense if you envision each guest that walks through a turnstile with a floating $$ amount over their head. That number is composed of the following:

-How much it cost them to enter the park
-how much, if any, they paid to stay there (Deluxe Rack room rate priority, then moderates, then DVC, then off-site
-how much they’re expected to spend on upcharge events (dessert parties, etc)
-how much they’re expected to spend on merch
-how much they’re expected to spend on food and drink

They want that number as high as possible. APs and others with discounts are already a lower amount, which is why they value day guests higher than those who come more regularly and frequently.

Oh hell! Bob's been running a copy of this on an old Windows 98 laptop in his bedroom, hasn't he?!:



I bet he's working out a way to put more food options in front of Guardian's of the Galaxy and add paid restrooms at the end to boost profits just like I used to do when I played.

 

[crazy4disney]

anyone willing to give an estimate or predictions if they basically do a Uni type system? im curious what everyone thinks lines will be reduced to... bc again my experience w FP i had NO issues getting any ride i wanted as a resort guest and day of offered plenty of available rides quality ones to choose from....

 

[Chi84]

No but it's like that at every park. I'm sorry but Disney guests have been spoiled by being able to skip lines for top attractions for so long.

I think it’s been very well-established that people who go to WDW don’t want to wait in long lines anymore. Doesn’t matter whether you call them spoiled, practical, smart, etc.

FastPasses have been at WDW for over 20 years and people have taken advantage of them. I would probably say they are used to it. Spoiled sounds a bit judgmental and rude.

 

[MrPromey]

an hour is still an hour 90 minutes is still 90 minutes will lines be reduced possibly but people act like all of a sudden lines are gonna magically be reduced to 15 min waits and headliners be way shorter... i dont see it simple as that....

Me neither.

They got into this mess by a combo of introducing these new systems and then using them as an excuse to not reinvest in the upgrades necessary to keep up with capacity problems.

Getting rid of the "affordable" line cutting option isn't suddenly going to make Pirates and Haunted Mansion go back to the near walk-ons they were for decades but it'll help move those lines faster.

To do that, they need to add a ton more high-ish capacity attractions across property and then they need to continue adding them per-park at least once every five years after that point which for the speed at which Disney works (something reminiscent of an old Heinz commercial) means they basically need to buy their own construction equipment and pretty much have a crane doing something in all four parks at all times.

None of which I can imagine them actually doing which is why I let my passes for Disney lapse right before the pandemic and why every other player in central Florida has been getting my money ever since.

 

[Jrb1979]

anyone willing to give an estimate or predictions if they basically do a Uni type system? im curious what everyone thinks lines will be reduced to... bc again my experience w FP i had NO issues getting any ride i wanted as a resort guest and day of offered plenty of available rides quality ones to choose from....

The lines won't be reduced much at all with a Uni type system but they will be moving constantly.

 

[crazy4disney]

Me neither.

They got into this mess by a combo of introducing these new systems and then using them as an excuse to not reinvest in the upgrades necessary to keep up with capacity problems.

Getting rid of the "affordable" line cutting option isn't suddenly going to make Pirates and Haunted Mansion go back to the near walk-ons they were for decades but it'll help move those lines faster.

To do that, they need to add a ton more high-ish capacity attractions across property and then they need to continue adding them per-park at least once every five years after that point which for the speed at which Disney works (something reminiscent of an old Heinz commercial) means they basically need to buy their own construction equipment and pretty much have a crane doing something in all four parks at all times.

None of which I can imagine them actually doing which is why I let my passes for Disney lapse right before the pandemic and why every other player in central Florida has been getting my money ever since.

thats the only point i am making they have capacity issues in every park except maybeeeee MK & with basically nothing in sight coming yes i know Tron will open soon but closing Splash will offset that & if Space truly closes for a much needed rehab the park becomes negative when that happens... lack of maintenance has created downtimes less hours have forced people to spend more time in parks so on and so forth leads you to the problem we have now.... all your loyal repeat customers are NOT gonna be satisfied ones standing in lines that are either shut out or priced out of a skip the line system...

 

[MrPromey]

thats the only point i am making they have capacity issues in every park except maybeeeee MK & with basically nothing in sight coming yes i know Tron will open soon but closing Splash will offset that & if Space truly closes for a much needed rehab the park becomes negative when that happens... lack of maintenance has created downtimes less hours have forced people to spend more time in parks so on and so forth leads you to the problem we have now.... all your loyal repeat customers are NOT gonna be satisfied ones standing in lines that are either shut out or priced out of a skip the line system...

I think with the current state of everything, we're in agreement on that.

 

[crazy4disney]

The lines won't be reduced much at all with a Uni type system but they will be moving constantly.

the old lines will be moving constantly debate.... im sorry 60 minutes is still 60 minutes & if i understand you are admitting that no time will be saved vs FP where you had 3 skip the line rides quality onbes and ability to add during day.... yet somehow removing FP was a good thing? im extremely baffled w this one

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I am not a DVC member but this whole experience reinforces my "get it in writing" mindset.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like the availability of discounted APs is something that was used as a selling tool for DVC but because Disney was not contractually bound to keep providing that "perk" they were able to cut it off for everyone.

Is that about right?

To which I mean, the part about them talking about a benifit on a long-term sale that they weren't obligated to maintain for the life of the sale?

A part of me always wants to say "sucker!" when people fall for this stuff but there was a time I could not have fathomed Disney stooping to the level of pulling this kind of crap on anyone - be it their best long-term customers or some dude off the street with a day ticket.

This used to be the company known for bending over backwards to make things right for their guests.

I might have the wrong idea about all of this but having heard so much anger from so many DVC members over this issue, I have to think it was presented as a perk up front to encourage sales at some point and not just something members found out about in their welcome package after signing the contract.

Right now there is virtually no benefit of buying direct, which is often a 50% premium over resale. For some families, that cost made sense because of the AP discounts (which even when APs were available was heavily slashed).

So now, the current direct DVC benefits are:
- some small, but replaceable discounts
- moonlight magic (which most often don't coincide with a trip)
- lounge access (bay lake, imagination)

 

[sullyinMT]

anyone willing to give an estimate or predictions if they basically do a Uni type system? im curious what everyone thinks lines will be reduced to... bc again my experience w FP i had NO issues getting any ride i wanted as a resort guest and day of offered plenty of available rides quality ones to choose from....

It worked for you, and I'd guess 98%+ of the participants of this forum. But plenty of guests either didn't know how or even that they could modify FP+ and get 4, 5, 6 ... attractions in a day. Or which attractions to skip on FP+ and get in the standby (Mad Tea while waiting 25min for Space, for example). That may not be Disney's problem, directly, but the lowering GS scores were/are. Surely they've seen recent vlogs and read pages like these where guests are less than thrilled with G+, park hopping as is, and to a likely lesser extent, park reservations. If afternoon AP entries and some modifications to hopping hours or logistics are next steps, then I hope they make sense and start trying to right some of the recent wrongs. We'd love to return, but things are a mess right now from 1,600 miles away and we aren't quite ready to bite the bullet.

 

[MrPromey]

You’re suggesting they spend hundreds of millions (if not billions) just to alleviate the current attendance levels without adding any additional revenue?

Adding capacity costs money. When companies spend money they need to make more money. Making more money means more guests. This is not the simple problem you believe it is.

And that is the executive quagmire that Bob 1.0 created for current management.

Sure profits looked great while he over-pumped that existing well and now they have a problem that nobody relying on short-term profits like he did has the means to solve it.

This has to eventually start affecting the bottom line at some point, doesn't it? There has to be some point when guests realize what they're getting for their money as the situation continues to decline, right?... right?

 

[MrPromey]

Right now there is virtually no benefit of buying direct, which is often a 50% premium over resale. For some families, that cost made sense because of the AP discounts (which even when APs were available was heavily slashed).

So now, the current direct DVC benefits are:
- some small, but replaceable discounts
- moonlight magic (which most often don't coincide with a trip)
- lounge access (bay lake, imagination)

But back in the day... say 20 years ago, at the start of the contracts many now have, were these stripped benefits touted as selling points to get you in the door?

 

[correcaminos]

I am not a DVC member but this whole experience reinforces my "get it in writing" mindset.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like the availability of discounted APs is something that was used as a selling tool for DVC but because Disney was not contractually bound to keep providing that "perk" they were able to cut it off for everyone.

Is that about right?

To which I mean, the part about them talking about a benifit on a long-term sale that they weren't obligated to maintain for the life of the sale?

A part of me always wants to say "sucker!" when people fall for this stuff but there was a time I could not have fathomed Disney stooping to the level of pulling this kind of crap on anyone - be it their best long-term customers or some dude off the street with a day ticket.

This used to be the company known for bending over backwards to make things right for their guests.

I might have the wrong idea about all of this but having heard so much anger from so many DVC members over this issue, I have to think it was presented as a perk up front to encourage sales at some point and not just something members found out about in their welcome package after signing the contract.

AP discounts was used as a selling tool for direct among other perks. They don't have to keep them, but with prices at $200 a point they seem to want to offer perks. In fact more perks now I notice than when I bought in ages ago. Though I know initially the park tickets for half the occupancy was around at the beginning too. I'd be okay with that if they brought that back again

 

[Nuclear Monkey]

an hour is still an hour 90 minutes is still 90 minutes will lines be reduced possibly but people act like all of a sudden lines are gonna magically be reduced to 15 min waits and headliners be way shorter... i dont see it simple as that....

From Disney's perspective (at least what used to be their perspective) though, every minute that you are in a line is a minute that you are not spending money. They have a clear financial incentive to make sure standby lines are as short as possible. When major headliners (I'm looking at you 7 dwarves and Flight of Passage), have 3 hour plus waits on standby, you had to know FP+ days were numbered. Heck the "new" system is almost identical to the old fastpass tickets, except everything is virtual. Wouldn't it be great if they re-installed the ticket dispensers in front of the rides and had you pay to access (I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just trying to point out the FP+ was awful).