Replacement for Tomorrowland Speedway?

[the.dreamfinder]

I am actually of the opinion that WDW doesn't need another coaster, especially in MK where the newest ride at this point is a coaster.

TL could use a mega-e, high capacity dark ride.

 

[jaxonp]

General question for the thread-

Why do so many of you want clones of rides from other parks?

From my perspective I think it's good for different parks to have different offerings. Not everything has to be the same. Original park exclusive rides would be nice, imo.

I don't have a problem with clones if 1, they are killer attractions the fit the park and 2 if they come from outside the US. I doubt even 1-2% of WDW visitors will ever make it to Shanghai so I'm all for it... probably 5-6% make it to DLP so bring on Rat as well. These are proven winners and it helps keep cost down. If it brings more rides to WDW, which we need desperately, over less original attractions then I'm all for it. Besides, we just got Pandora...It's all ours!

 

[andysol]

Things like brakes, track work, etc are not complete rebuilds..nor do they mean that a ride is past it's life to the point of needing bulldozed.

I don't even think Space Mountain is in the "rough ride" category, not even in the slightest bit...but I realize that other people do.

I didn't say "complete rebuild" nor did I say it needs bulldozed. I said:

It needs a complete rebuild of the tracks.

The brakes were added (multiple times now) because the track is not able to handle the speeds anymore. The big refurbishment they did in 2009 that cost ~$12 million was supposed to replace all of the tracks- but instead they modified the trains and added a crap-ton more trim brakes (yet again).
It's a shell of it's former self- and it is by far the worst riding space mountain compared to every other space mountain Disney has around the world.

@21stamps - have you ridden Space Mountain in Disneyland? If not- then you simply don't understand what I'm talking about- because that's what we were supposed to get in 2009, but instead of got a slower ride, more jarring bakes, and an even rougher ride. The tracks need replaced- nothing else but that would be fine by me.

 

[Tiki Queen of Outer Space]

Ok but it's like space-y looking or whatever

Regardless still wondering if this is a replacement for Space. Considering Space is overdue for a massive overhaul. And I can't see them putting two coasters next to each other

It's not space related at all, you're inside a computer...

 

[Lets Respect]

It's not space related at all, you're inside a computer...

Oh my goodness whatever it's Tron
The ride looked spacey to me. Whatever
I saw the movie when I was 5, I don't care

If you want to ignore my question go ahead but stahp with the pearl clutching

Anyway my bet is Space is out if they build Tron

 

[disneygeek90]

Things like brakes, track work, etc are not complete rebuilds..nor do they mean that a ride is past it's life to the point of needing bulldozed.

I don't even think Space Mountain is in the "rough ride" category, not even in the slightest bit...but I realize that other people do.

I will admit that DL's is smoother and feels all around fresher (largely due to WDW's car style, imo), but I love ours regardless. I don't feel it's as bad a rough shape as some are making it out to be.

 

[RSoxNo1]

General question for the thread-

Why do so many of you want clones of rides from other parks?

From my perspective I think it's good for different parks to have different offerings. Not everything has to be the same. Original park exclusive rides would be nice, imo.

It's pretty simple. People gravitate towards what they understand. I wrote this in article in April of 2013 suggesting that Disney build something other than Cars Land in DHS:

To many fans, Cars Land is an easy sell. It’s an established franchise with attractions that already exist. It’s something that fans understand, but that doesn’t make it the right decision. As a Disney fan, I know there’s a reason why I’m not an Imagineer – I simply don’t have the ability to create and imagine at the same level as these individuals. I would much rather see this team of creative individuals given the opportunity to fix the park with new ideas.

The reason why fans gravitate towards concepts like Cars Land or Indiana Jones Adventure is because those attractions exist and they know what they’re getting. In the same way, fans beg and plead for things like Beastly Kingdom or the Monster’s Inc Coaster because they’re concepts that are understood, either based on existing information or concept art. Similarly, I’m guilty of begging and pleading for a trackless ride system like Pooh’s Hunny Hunt (Tokyo) because it’s a ride system that I understand.

The same approach can be taken with why people gravitate towards Intellectual Property based attractions as well (May of 2015 article):

From an executive standpoint, the appeal of intellectual property based attractions is simple, almost child like. Look at the type of attractions that children gravitate towards. They move towards motion that they can see. They prefer spinners, tea cups and Primeval Whirl. Even the more complex attractions that they enjoy contain visible motion before riding like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. They gravitate towards these things because they understand them. There are no surprises to them. Comparatively, children shy away from something like Space Mountain because it’s in the dark. They go with what they know and what they can comprehend.

In many respects, adults are the same way; we just gravitate towards different things. In the end though, we still gravitate towards what we understand. As adult fanbois, we want Beastly Kingdom because we’ve seen concept art and heard what the attractions would have been. It’s a concept that we think we understand. We fear Avatar because there is a significant unknown in the form of a ride system we don’t understand. We try to minimize it by boiling it down to its simplest component (a screen) and call it, “Soarin’ on Steroids”. It’s lazy thinking.

 

[*Q*]

@marni1971 Is there any chance the Speedway, the Railroad, and/or especially the PeopleMover will go inside the TRON show building?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

And this bothers me because you know what I see in the outside photos of tron from Shanghai? Bare coaster supports. You know what I see in toy story land? You gussed it bare coaster supports. If I want to see coaster track and supports I will go to six flags. Disney has always gone that extra step spent the extra cash to remove your eye from those supports and make them and you belive they blend in, look at splash, thunder, Everest. Even RnRC and space hides their supports in their respected show buildings. (No i did not forget about brainstormed or countdown... barnstormer gets a pass because I have literally never seen it in person. Been to WDW 5 times and can never remember seeing what it looks like in person. And I just refuse to admit that countdown exists in the hope that one day it wont)

Finally I'm not a huge fan of the POVs I have watched regarding the Shanghai version. Like it just seems to be like any other coaster but with LED s plastered everywhere. And this is coming from someone who does enjoy roller coasters and goes our of their way to try different ones at different parks.

I'm not against a new tron coaster don't get me wrong, but maybe I am missing something?

While I understand the sentiment... It works well for Tron, especially in person. The track follows the "swoop" of the canopy, and with just the coaster beams as support, the lighting package is visable behind the track opposite you, regardless of where you're standing, and the entire canopy and light show can be seen from anywhere you are standing. If they themed the track all the way down to the ground (to hide the beams), it would block sections of the canopy from different areas and cut off what you're able to see/watch.

And that canopy is really designed to be taken in all together at once, I think. Whether I was 200 yards away just off the hub, or if I was standing under it, I found myself constantly trying to take the thing in as a whole.

Truthfully, the outdoor optics are what MAKE the ride. It's an ok (albeit way too short) coaster otherwise.

 

[21stamps]

I didn't say "complete rebuild" nor did I say it needs bulldozed. I said:

The brakes were added (multiple times now) because the track is not able to handle the speeds anymore. The big refurbishment they did in 2009 that cost ~$12 million was supposed to replace all of the tracks- but instead they modified the trains and added a crap-ton more trim brakes (yet again).
It's a shell of it's former self- and it is by far the worst riding space mountain compared to every other space mountain Disney has around the world.

@21stamps - have you ridden Space Mountain in Disneyland? If not- then you simply don't understand what I'm talking about- because that's what we were supposed to get in 2009, but instead of got a slower ride, more jarring bakes, and an even rougher ride. The tracks need replaced- nothing else but that would be fine by me.

Not since I was a kid. I don't think SM is a rough ride generally.. again though, I get that other people do.

My "tear down/shelf life" comments were in regards to @jt04 's comments and a few others. Modifications don't mean an attraction needs to be scratched.. we wouldn't have half the roller coasters in this country if that was true.
I'd be fine if the tracks were replaced.. but the hoopla of "tear down" is a giant stretch. I realize that you aren't calling for that.

 

[disneygeek90]

General question for the thread-

Why do so many of you want clones of rides from other parks?

From my perspective I think it's good for different parks to have different offerings. Not everything has to be the same. Original park exclusive rides would be nice, imo.

We have Pandora, DL has Cars Land, there are different offerings. I don't think it's necessarily bad to have some similarities. It's highly unlikely I am going to make it out to any of the other parks besides DL for the forseeable future. I don't care that much about the tron ride but it does look cool. I don't necessarily want a clone just something new to the park in general.

 

[Bocabear]

I would prefer an original land and attraction, but if we have to have a clone I wish they would aim a bit higher... instead of a stunning Carsland copy we are getting a really lame Toy Storyland rehash...which is even cheaper and less thematic... Such a shame

 

[marni1971]

@marni1971 Is there any chance the Speedway, the Railroad, and/or especially the PeopleMover will go inside the TRON show building?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[uncle jimmy]

I think you're right, but a girl can dream, right? The current theme of the Speedway really doesn't fit any part of the park, so I'd like to see a change happen there. Sugar Rush and Tron would really create a nice berm between FL and TL.

I thought that I've read and heard somewhere (maybe from Jim and Len) that Disney was waiting on the Sugar Rush ride until more info came on Nintendo-Land and the Mario Kart Ride. And I kind-of remember someone saying that WR had a couple options for its placement, one being Speedway and the other being Stitch.
Then again, I still think that Cars would be a good fit on the Speedway as a transitional ride between fantasy and tomorrow lands. Thou what was described from Jim Hill on a Sugar Rush replacement of Stitch, is pretty much a scene in Cars 3.
Regardless, how exciting will it be to see the art work of whats coming!

 

[21stamps]

It's pretty simple. People gravitate towards what they understand. I wrote this in article in April of 2013 suggesting that Disney build something other than Cars Land in DHS:

To many fans, Cars Land is an easy sell. It’s an established franchise with attractions that already exist. It’s something that fans understand, but that doesn’t make it the right decision. As a Disney fan, I know there’s a reason why I’m not an Imagineer – I simply don’t have the ability to create and imagine at the same level as these individuals. I would much rather see this team of creative individuals given the opportunity to fix the park with new ideas.

The reason why fans gravitate towards concepts like Cars Land or Indiana Jones Adventure is because those attractions exist and they know what they’re getting. In the same way, fans beg and plead for things like Beastly Kingdom or the Monster’s Inc Coaster because they’re concepts that are understood, either based on existing information or concept art. Similarly, I’m guilty of begging and pleading for a trackless ride system like Pooh’s Hunny Hunt (Tokyo) because it’s a ride system that I understand.

The same approach can be taken with why people gravitate towards Intellectual Property based attractions as well (May of 2015 article):

From an executive standpoint, the appeal of intellectual property based attractions is simple, almost child like. Look at the type of attractions that children gravitate towards. They move towards motion that they can see. They prefer spinners, tea cups and Primeval Whirl. Even the more complex attractions that they enjoy contain visible motion before riding like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. They gravitate towards these things because they understand them. There are no surprises to them. Comparatively, children shy away from something like Space Mountain because it’s in the dark. They go with what they know and what they can comprehend.

In many respects, adults are the same way; we just gravitate towards different things. In the end though, we still gravitate towards what we understand. As adult fanbois, we want Beastly Kingdom because we’ve seen concept art and heard what the attractions would have been. It’s a concept that we think we understand. We fear Avatar because there is a significant unknown in the form of a ride system we don’t understand. We try to minimize it by boiling it down to its simplest component (a screen) and call it, “Soarin’ on Steroids”. It’s lazy thinking.

I understand that, I still think it can be accomplished while having at least a few exclusive popular themed rides at each park.

 

[MCast]

I am quite excited about the prospects for Tommorowland. Especially when our insiders deem it an improvement, not a regression.

That said, I hope the TTA shall live on. It has such a soft spot on my poor heart...

 

[LAKid53]

I didn't say "complete rebuild" nor did I say it needs bulldozed. I said:

The brakes were added (multiple times now) because the track is not able to handle the speeds anymore. The big refurbishment they did in 2009 that cost ~$12 million was supposed to replace all of the tracks- but instead they modified the trains and added a crap-ton more trim brakes (yet again).
It's a shell of it's former self- and it is by far the worst riding space mountain compared to every other space mountain Disney has around the world.

@21stamps - have you ridden Space Mountain in Disneyland? If not- then you simply don't understand what I'm talking about- because that's what we were supposed to get in 2009, but instead of got a slower ride, more jarring bakes, and an even rougher ride. The tracks need replaced- nothing else but that would be fine by me.

I have and I completely agree - WDW needs to redo Space Mountain so it rides like DLR's, rather than the slow, jarring, bruise inducing mess it is now....

 

[Buried20KLeague]

DL did a great job keeping theirs up

Not by choice.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I understand that, I still think it can be accomplished while having at least a few exclusive popular themed rides at each park.

It absolutely can be accomplished, but the question was why people want clones, and more importantly, why Disney prefers clones. The current management group is about safe investments.

 

[21stamps]

I will admit that DL's is smoother and feels all around fresher (largely due to WDW's car style, imo), but I love ours regardless. I don't feel it's as bad a rough shape as some are making it out to be.

Whew, I'm not alone. I love classic wooden coasters, those are rough. Actually a few older steel ones are as well.. SM isn't anywhere in the same league..lol.

To me our cars are kind of what makes it "special".