Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I too have strong nostalgia for 2001 DCA. I Kloe it’s hated by many, and for good reason, but I miss it and kinda wish it was still here. It’s what I grew up with.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
News Reimagined Toontown coming
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It's a little scary how well you apparently know me. I looked at her shoes for a few seconds and thought "Honey, what are those? Did they make you wear those for the photo? Or...?"
If I were to guess, they're supposed to be shoes that the stirrup ski pants can work with while still allowing her to do her job. But, still.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
This is 2023. Things change. Best to move on. Your tastes are subjective, as you already know.If it's true that's what your standards are for CM uniforms and appearance, it says you don't understand what Disneyland's long-term strategy has been for showmanship and service standards. But I find that hard to believe of you, to be honest.
It's not even a "Walt thing", since he was only there for the first 11 years, and these standards were fine-tuned and held in place for at least six decades. It's more of a Van France and Dick Nunis and Jack Lindquist thing.
My expectations are based on what I actually experienced at the Anaheim parks for many decades of the 20th century, into the 2010's.
It was most certainly glamorous. It still is in many spots where the CM costumes and "Show" were designed decades ago and have not yet been altered by these newly lowered standards. Disneyland Resort locations like Carthay Circle Restaurant, Haunted Mansion, Disneyland Opera House, New Orleans Square shopping/dining, Disneyland Tour Guides, etc.
There used to be quite a bit more park locations that were far more glamorous than today, but their uniforms and Show was abandoned or changed recently, like Golden Horseshoe Saloon, the Plaza Inn, Frontierland stores, Tahitian Terrace, the Tiki Room show hostesses, etc.
I get what Mickey's Toontown is supposed to be. It's existed since 1993, and all major elements and facilities from 1993 are still there. What's interesting is that the big new E Ticket they just miraculously shoehorned into that little land got obviously new CM costumes that are traditionally good looking, stylish and flattering, and even quite clever with the way they morph from one location to another.
But the rest of the Toontown "land" costumes that just got rolled out? Those are crap. And they look bad on the CM's wearing them, even on opening weekend when they'll never look this fresh and fully complemented ever again. They also register to the eye as being very "contemporary", which is never a thing that ages well. They'll look dated in 5 years, and absolutely humiliating a decade from now.
Like locking in place the acid-washed denim dresses the girls who worked at Videopolis wore in the mid 1980's.
The costumes worn in the 1970s photos you posted are crap. Garbage. Hideous and just ugly.
-Person Who Doesn’t Understand What Disneyland’s Long-Term Strategy Has Been for Showmanship and Service Standards
TP2000
Well-Known Member
What other uniforms should be devolved into sloppy pants and an untucked shirt to reflect the reality of the 2020's?
Why do the CM's at the Main Street Opera House have to pretend it's 1905 and it's a fancy opera house? Shouldn't they just be able to wear droopy pants and an untucked XXL shirt instead of this?
We've talked about the crummy, grimy conditions TDA provides for its Cast backstage and in support services for years. Don't make me drag out those hilarious photos of the smarmy PR Photo Shoot that Business Insider did of a TDA exec cutting the ribbon on a bleak and depressing "new" break room!
As for wages, they're currently hiring for food service jobs at the snack bars in Mickey's Toontown. You must be 18, but no high school diploma is required (basic English skills needed however). They are offering $16.45 per hour to start, with a $1,500 signing bonus (paid in two increments over first 150 days on job). If I was looking for a job after dropping out of high school at age 17, I'd jump at that offer.
Last edited:
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Those were Tomorrowland costumes. Tomorrowland has always had hideous costumes for decades. I think it's some sort of rule they have.
At least those 1970's CM's in Tomorrowland didn't have to wear this getup that 1960's Flight To The Moon hostesses were punished with...
Although, I'm actually really liking the boots.
Consumer
Well-Known Member
This goes hard. I could honestly imagine the everyday woman of 2023 wearing something like this.Those were Tomorrowland costumes. Tomorrowland has always had hideous costumes for decades. I think it's some sort of rule they have.
At least those 1970's CM's in Tomorrowland didn't have to wear this getup that 1960's Flight To The Moon hostesses were punished with...
Although, I'm actually really liking the boots.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
Knowledge of what the current wages are does not in any way imply that you support raising them.What other uniforms should be devolved into sloppy pants and an untucked shirt to reflect the reality of the 2020's?
Why do the CM's at the Main Street Opera House have to pretend it's 1905 and it's a fancy opera house? Shouldn't they just be able to wear droopy pants and an untucked XXL shirt instead of this?
View attachment 705755
We've talked about the crummy, grimy conditions TDA provides for its Cast backstage and in support services for years. Don't make me drag out those hilarious photos of the smarmy PR Photo Shoot that Business Insider did of a TDA exec cutting the ribbon on a bleak and depressing "new" break room!
As for wages, they're currently hiring for food service jobs at the snack bars in Mickey's Toontown. You must be 18, but no high school diploma is required (basic English skills needed however). They are offering $16.45 per hour to start, with a $1,500 signing bonus (paid in two increments over first 150 days on job). If I was looking for a job after dropping out of high school at age 17, I'd jump at that offer.
I agree the Toontown costumes should look better, but I can't say I'm surprised that the uniforms for what is essentially their Kiddieland look bright, ugly, and garish. Does it look bad? Yes. Does it fit? Well....I can't necessarily say it doesn't. Either current trends or conceding to the reality of what that area is for most people.
Last edited:
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
OMG….
( spurts coffee all over the computer screen )
I don’t know what is funnier - the comparison, or the fact I am old enough to know what a ‘Wheeler’ is….!
-
RobWDW1971
Well-Known Member
Professional service is very much tied to how someone presents themselves - maintaining their proper weight, grooming, clothes properly fitted, and having an overall professional, neat look and demeanor. Those cast members look disheveled, sloppy, and unprofessional.
There is a reason you don't generally see employees who look and dress like that at a Louis Vuitton store or at a Four Seasons, but you do at your local IHOP (actually my local IHOP has more professional looking employees than that so perhaps third shift at Waffle House?).
It's an embarrassment for a supposed world class service brand to have employees who look like that.
If my local Chick-fil-A and In-N-Out can have professional looking employees with proper fitted uniforms on a regular basis, Disney can too. It is simply about management standards and focus.
There is a reason you don't generally see employees who look and dress like that at a Louis Vuitton store or at a Four Seasons, but you do at your local IHOP (actually my local IHOP has more professional looking employees than that so perhaps third shift at Waffle House?).
It's an embarrassment for a supposed world class service brand to have employees who look like that.
If my local Chick-fil-A and In-N-Out can have professional looking employees with proper fitted uniforms on a regular basis, Disney can too. It is simply about management standards and focus.
Last edited:
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I actually don’t believe the costumes are ugly. I made that comment because whatever clothing you may deem acceptable and attractive, someone else could think otherwise.Those were Tomorrowland costumes. Tomorrowland has always had hideous costumes for decades. I think it's some sort of rule they have.
At least those 1970's CM's in Tomorrowland didn't have to wear this getup that 1960's Flight To The Moon hostesses were punished with...
Although, I'm actually really liking the boots.
I stand by what I said. Those Toontown CMs looked presentable. Whether the uniforms are attractive or not, that’s another subject.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I think that's a huge part of this. This is primarily a failure of front-line Park management.
If what we're hearing is true, that Disney doesn't stock trousers in any sort of inseam sizes (even a broad generalization like "Short" being 28-30, "Regular" being 31-33, "Tall" as 34-36), then part of this glaring aesthetic problem is not the CM's fault.
These are mostly just young kids often from modest backgrounds, after all, and they may not have even had an inseam measurement taken before. Or even know what it means. So they have no idea what to ask for, or why.
But it would require effective management with clear and defined standards for Park appearance and comportment to get those CM's into the right sized trousers. It would probably start on their first day of OJT, when they first go to the wardrobe department to get their first uniform. If they have no idea what size trousers they wear other than "XL", and their training team doesn't care, and their Dockers-clad manager doesn't care, then why should the CM's care?
I have referenced Disneyland's Dockers-clad managers for years now. It makes me giggle. So, I just checked the Dockers website (first time for everything!), and... Yup! Dockers have eight different inseams sized available in their "Workday" line, from 28 to 38!
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
I think that's a huge part of this. This is primarily a failure of front-line Park management.
If what we're hearing is true, that Disney doesn't stock trousers in any sort of inseam sizes (even a broad generalization like "Short" being 28-30, "Regular" being 31-33, "Tall" as 34-36), then part of this glaring aesthetic problem is not the CM's fault.
These are mostly just young kids often from modest backgrounds, after all, and they may not have even had an inseam measurement taken before. Or even know what it means. So they have no idea what to ask for, or why.
But it would require effective management with clear and defined standards for Park appearance and comportment to get those CM's into the right sized trousers. It would probably start on their first day of OJT, when they first go to the wardrobe department to get their first uniform. If they have no idea what size trousers they wear other than "XL", and their training team doesn't care, and their Dockers-clad manager doesn't care, then why should the CM's care?
I have referenced Disneyland's Dockers-clad managers for years now. It makes me giggle. So, I just checked the Dockers website (first time for everything!), and... Yup! Dockers have eight different inseams sized available in their "Workday" line, from 28 to 38!
If I remember correctly, Disney very much does stock by inseam sizes. I'm a 32x30- when I worked there I remember picking out chef pants by that size. But I could be misremembering it's been a few years.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
Luxury and glamour aren’t something I’d associate with any amusement / theme park so that’s just not a term I’d associate to any park regardless of price.
There’s definitely different levels of quality though, and my expectations of a Disney park are much higher than my expectations of Six Flags (or any park not named Disney to be honest).
And yes… those higher expectations include costumes, uniforms, professionalism, and appearance.
If I go to a local amusement park I expect the employees to be teenagers wearing generic polos, if I go to a themed Disney park I expect themed uniforms and Disney service.
(PS, one of my comments when they previewed Toontown was I loved the bright uniforms because I think they fit the land, my issue is the comment that it doesn’t matter because parks aren’t glamorous or luxurious, something doesn’t have to be luxurious for me to have high expectations)
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
The uniforms are themed. What is “Disney service?”
We disagree on the level of expectations. The whining and b******* over the Toontown uniforms in this thread is absurd, given, as you said, it’s a theme park and it’s not some luxurious, glamorous place. I am wondering why you replied to me, telling me luxury and glamour have nothing to do with pricing, but didn’t reply to those directly saying prices do matter, but I feel like I already know the answer to that, so anyways…
Agree to disagree.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I was thinking about it, and there just HAS to be an ability for any CM whose assigned uniform involves trousers to choose an inseam size. Even if it's not exact like when you buy a suit and your tailor hems your pants for you, but more generalized as "30" that covers a range of 29 to 31.
Park uniforms like Haunted Mansion, Opera House, even Indiana Jones or anything with pants really, has to have an inseam size range of some sort with 30,000 potential CM's from 5'2" to 6'5" checking out pants for their shift.
This makes me chuckle that we're talking about this. But those CM's with those awful trousers (and their managers who allowed it) brought it upon themselves.
The CM's at the Cruise Line look fantastic, just like Disneyland in the old days! And even today the Napa Rose CM"s always look very well tailored and groomed. So it's not impossible. This can be done!
Last edited:
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I didn’t reply to them because I agree that price does factor into expectations, but the not luxurious or glamorous comment caught my attention because it’s not something I’d ever associate to a theme park, and it sounded like you were using it as a reason uniforms shouldn’t matter, which I disagreed with.
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I was thinking about it, and there just HAS to be an ability for any CM whose assigned uniform involves trousers to choose an inseam size. Even if it's not exact like when you buy a suit and your tailor hems your pants for you, but more generalized as "30" that covers a range of 29 to 31.
Park uniforms like Haunted Mansion, Opera House, even Indiana Jones or anything with pants really, has to have an inseam size range of some sort with 30,000 potential CM's from 5'2" to 6'5" checking out pants for their shift.
This makes me chuckle that we're talking about this. But those CM's with those awful trousers (and their managers who allowed it) brought it upon themselves.
You know, I think it's more of a society wide issue that has bled into Disneyland. People don't dress up like they used too.
I grew up going to church- but always wore off the rack suits and dress clothes that did not fit properly. I haven't been in years- but now have a job that requires dress clothing. My first set of work dress clothes were $20 Amazon dress shirts and $30 Amazon chinos and a polyester tie. Not exactly peak fashion.
Then, I got Brooks Brothers dress shirts which replaced the Amazon junk and replaced my polyester ties with Brooks Brothers. About six months ago I needed a proper suit for a wedding, and I didn't want polyester. I found a BB suit that was a little large for $160 shipped on Amazon (used, like new). Had it dry cleaned than took it to a local tailor who made it fit like a glove.
In the months since I've spent about $2,000 on eBay buying BB trousers and sport coats (This is my favorite acquisition) then having them tailored to fit perfectly. Not to mention the hours I've spent reading up on how clothing is supposed to fit. It's almost an addiction- and I have a phenomenal relationship with a local tailor now because of it.
My long winded point is- I didn't know what a 'break' was for pants until a few months ago. I didn't know that you should be able to see some shirt cuff in the sleeves when wearing a sport coat, or that traditional style dictates that the coat should cover your rear.
And I'd guess that 95% of Disneyland's park management below the executive level doesn't know how to properly fit clothing. And that 99% of Disneyland's hourly workers don't know. So unless Disney is willing to pay someone in costuming to fit each of the hourly cast, how can we expect them to even know how to fit their costumes properly?
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
But one poster said the price of admission indicates that the park is one of luxury and glamour… No response (likely due to bias and ultimately agreeing with their overall message). You’ve done this to me before, and now it’s becoming a pattern that I’m noticing.
Alright.