News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

mmascari

Well-Known Member
"Ok, now it's our turn to use that phrase!".
By twisting its meaning into something different. Attempting to obscure the original meaning and make it a meaningless catch phrase. A common tactic, Fake News as another example.

The Right is generally libertarian and focused on individual rights, I doubt they genuinely don't understand the concept of Freedom of Speech.
That’s nostalgia and no longer true. People like that are called RINO now. The new right has a different view on rights. It’s not that they don’t understand, they don’t want to understand and instead twist to mean something else. Thereby loosing the original meaning.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Shouldn’t be consequences from the government. Maybe business consequences like people making a choice about using their products, services.
Exactly. I’ve said from day 1 that Disney could have consequences from taking a position on the original bill. Those consequences could be a loss of customers, boycotts, protests, etc. I even went as far as saying if DeSantis the citizen on his own time and without use of government resources organized a boycott or protest that would be legal. What is unacceptable is DeSantis the Governor using the powers of his office that we the people (really some of you guys “the people” who actually live in FL) granted to him to retaliate against and punish a political foe. So as you say the consequences cannot be government retaliation. We the people are free to retaliate as long as we do it lawfully.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Thanks for making my point.

The First Amendment does not mention “protected speech”.

Free Speech is much more complex than just the text in the Constitution.

We need to remember under what context the amendment was written. The colonists had just endured the full force of the most powerful military on the planet at that time. That speech which was acceptable in Hyde Park was crushed with ruthlessness in the colonies.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think that was a catchphrase (freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences) that first appeared on the Left in response to accusations of Cancel Culture. I think people on the other side of the political aisle were angry about that and are now delighted to wield it against the Left in response, like "Ok, now it's our turn to use that phrase!". The Right is generally libertarian and focused on individual rights, I doubt they genuinely don't understand the concept of Freedom of Speech.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from all consequences. That’s absolutely true. It is freedom from Government imposed consequences. A KKK group has the right to gather and speak. The Government cannot stop them from speaking even if their words are hateful. However, a group of counter protesters also has every right to show up and drown out the words of those people. Freedom of Speech protects them against the government stopping them from assembling or speaking it doesn’t protect them from fellow citizens drowning out their words with their own protected speech. It also doesn’t protect them from people posting their picture on Facebook and outing them as a KKK member. Those are some possible consequences of free speech but none are government imposed.

I agree with your opinion on the traditional right. I don’t think a lot of these people are traditional right. They embrace certain aspects of “conservative” but not all or even most. Just look at DeSantis. Hard to call him a traditional conservative.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Can we talk more about this citation role they’re creating? How come after 50 years all of a sudden they need a citation magistrate?

I find the use of the word "magistrate" interesting. Magistrates are lay judges who can issues citations, hold hearings, determine fines, etc. In the UK.

In the US, magistrates are officers of the various courts who handle a variety of judicial proceedings, typically things like traffic court, etc. They are appointed by the court itself, i.e., judges.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
Maybe Mrs. DeSantis can recommend her husband redo high school...
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Disney’s lawsuit wording seems convoluted. “As punishment for ..free speech.” Just because one has right to free speech, doesn’t mean there isn’t consequences for free speech. One could put a sign in their yard saying something offensive, but that doesn’t protect him from the consequences of public opinion or fallout. If Disney is the only entity gifted the special privilege of self-government, how is taking away a privilege that no other entity has been granted a “punishment?” If the threat was taking away an amenity that all businesses and competitors were given, that might be deemed a punishment. But taking away a privilege is a reciprocal renegotiation of the relationship. It seems more like a case of ‘don’t look a gif horse in the mouth’?

My personal opinion at this point is that it’s silly retaliation, and a political stunt. Why not just sit down and work it out? I am generally anti-government and it looks like zealous over reach. However Disney’s “punishment” counter seems flimsy to me.

Once upon a time there was an inn keeper. The inn keeper has honorary guests, and he put cookies out on a silver platter for them every day. They were the only guests of the inn to get free VIP cookies. The guests would eat all the delicious cookies, however they felt morally compelled to spread word to the neighborhood that the inn was not sanitary. They guests even funded the local DeSanitary Club against unkept inns. So the inn keeper decided not to bake any more free cookies. The guests sued the inn keeper for retaliation for taking away their free cookies, and for punishing them for their First Amendment right to tell the public they have a dirty inn.

The End
Confused Gary Coleman GIF
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
There’s a lot of interesting aspects to this. IIRC, you have one bill that dissolves what was RCID. Another that creates the CFTOD. A series of contracts entered into. A series of actions that purports to invalidate those contracts. New legislation and acts by the board that continue. The need for both Disney and RCID/CFTOD to continue running operations.

point being, the courts and the parties are going to have to play whack a mole with all the evolving issues and legislative/executive/board actions.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Thanks for making my point.

The First Amendment does not mention “protected speech”.

Free Speech is much more complex than just the text in the Constitution.
Free Speech may be complex and this case is certainly complex, but what we were talking about is a failure to understand the basic concept, not failure to understand a nuance that could be debatable.

So getting back to Disney vs DeSantis. It is a clear and indisputable violation of the First Amendment of the constitution if Governor DeSantis used the power of the Government of the State of FL to punish Disney for speaking out against the original bill that started this. That everyone should be able to agree on 100%. No exceptions. There is no “free speech has consequences” so they got what they deserved. The nuance comes in with proving that DeSantis used the power to punish Disney and that punishment was for speaking out politically. That’s what the courts will decide. That’s where the debate is. There’s no debate that if he did punish them then it’s a violation.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
We probably need to see the actual text to know what exactly is being proposed. Based on past comments, my guess is they recognize that messing with daily operations is their best path to inflict pain.
I wonder if this is intended for things like the Covid restrictions policy. We all speculated how exactly the district would enforce a violation of their “no Covid safety measures allowed” policy. Maybe this is it. If Disney tries to ignore that policy these people come in and shut them down.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Don’t make the assumption that a better Civics education will make better citizens. Based on what I know about the length of time they had been co-teaching it… I had the same Civics teachers as a former well-known, populist pundit on that certain cable news station. Every time he says something ridiculous, I say Mr. X and Mr Y must be rolling over in their graves. I consider my HS civics class one of the better classes I ever had in school. Certainly one of the most relevant to understanding what is happening today.

High school Civics can’t overcome the messaging coming from elsewhere, especially parents. Plus, there is a bunch of human psychology mixed in too. If you can make millions by saying the opposite of your education, eventually you start believing it. What is the Upton Sinclair quote about men, their salary and their understanding. At some point, if you have resources, ignorance is also a choice.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
There’s a lot of interesting aspects to this. IIRC, you have one bill that dissolves what was RCID. Another that creates the CFTOD. A series of contracts entered into. A series of actions that purports to invalidate those contracts. New legislation and acts by the board that continue. The need for both Disney and RCID/CFTOD to continue running operations.

point being, the courts and the parties are going to have to play whack a mole with all the evolving issues and legislative/executive/board actions.
I think that’s why the first step may be the judge putting in an injunction or whatever the appropriate legal term is to stop everything happening right now until the case can be heard. The injunction would essentially put all of the actions of the current board on hold and allow the current district to continue its administrative role that has to continue. The district can continue its business as usual until the judge decides what to do with the board. I would assume that injunction would leave the development agreement in place for now which would prohibit the board from interfering with Disney’s business. Once the case is decided either the board continues as is now or is reverted back to RCID.
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
A federal judge would probably be out of line to issue an injunction preventing the board from doing things that would interfere with day-to-day operations such as enforcing the fire code.
I don’t know if there’s a separate motion for injunctive relief apart from the prayer for relief. This is what’s at the end of the complaint.



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GoofGoof

Premium Member
A federal judge would probably be out of line to issue an injunction preventing the board from doing things that would interfere with day-to-day operations such as enforcing the fire code.
I agree. The “injunction” I was referring to would be around new board actions taken. The district would still have to be allowed to enforce fire codes, run EMS, maintain roads, provide electricity and water/sewer services as well as monitor preserved wetlands and anything else that is current essential RCID business. What I assume they could pause is new actions and changes to policy.
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
I agree. The “injunction” I was referring to would be around new board actions taken. The district would still have to be allowed to enforce fire codes, run EMS, maintain roads, provide electricity and water/sewer services as well as monitor preserved wetlands and anything else that is current essential RCID business. What I assume they could pause is new actions and changes to policy.
This is where the scope of how the district court deals with this will be interesting. Does it find the original act undoing the RCID unconstitutional, invalidating all that came after it? Then you have the appeals process. And what if the 11th Cir reverses? Then you have a SCOTUS appeal but also the prospect of dealing with the remaining issues in the meantime. Do you have a schism in terms of which board believes it’s the “true” power (RCID vs CFTOD)? All this will be occurring while the current board (and state legislature) continues to act. I don’t get the sense the legislature will stop just because the court is issuing orders.

All while the world’s largest theme park is trying to do its day to day operations.

I don’t envy anyone in this situation.
 

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