News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GoofGoof]

Agreed. Admittedly, I am a left of center liberal Democrat. But if Gavin Newsome retaliated against Chik-Fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or In-and-Out burger for expressing their conservative opposition to a proposed California law, I would be just as much appalled and opposed to it. I may vehemently disagree with those companies political and religious based views, but they have a right to express themselves and participate in the democratic process by lobbying for or against issues they support or do not.

Some will bring up the fact that Newsome retaliated against Walgreens for their position regarding providing abortion medication, but having the state deciding not to do business with Walgreens is a bit different than say, prohibiting or obstructing Walgreens from conducting business in the state, which is what DeSantis is trying to do with Disney. Newsome's actions are practically a boycott of Walgreens, but he's not directing the state to punish Walgreens in a way that would affect their business lIke say revoking their licenses. One of these things is not like the other and there is a clear distinction.

Had Newsome directed the state to say, pulling the business licenses of any of those companies I mentioned just for having an opposing political ideology would be a gross abuse of power and I would be just as vehemently opposed to those actions as I am with DeSantis. We are not supposed to be a country that directs the state to retaliate against individuals or companies just for having opposing views of whatever party or individual is in power. That's just fundamentally un-American and quite frankly, unconstitutional.

Outside of maybe selling children out of the basement I’d be willing to look the other way on just about anything In-and-Out burger does. No politician should ever punish any business who brings us such tasty joy

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm told that Universal privately acknowledges that hurting Disney also hurts them in Orlando. Their Orlando business is down.

I am sure this is true. I am one of the weirdos who refuses to “cross the streams” and mix a Disney vacation with Universal but that’s mostly due to logistics (usually not having a car at WDW) and I know I’m a rare minority on that. Disney drives the whole market but I’m sure when Epic Universe opens Disney will also get a bump from people coming to see it and spending some time at WDW too.

 

[Mr. Stay Puft]

Outside of maybe selling children out of the basement I’d be willing to look the other way on just about anything In-and-Out burger does. No politician should ever punish any business who brings us such tasty joy

Lol I tried In and Out when I made my first trip to Disneyland last year. IMO it was pretty overrated but I know in California they are considered sacrosanct.

Alot of people take issue with them printing Bible verses on their packaging, but as a non-religious person it's fine with me. And if people don't like that, they're free to not do business with them.

Also I have my, pardon the pun, beefs with Chik-Fil-A with their beliefs, but I also acknowledge they are a very well ran company who puts out a good product with happy employees. I don't patronize them very often at all, but I cannot argue anything negative about how they are ran as a company.

 

[Alanzo]

The sad thing is, I don’t see a way for Disney to come out ahead in this. If it gets escalated further, even a legal “win” will be seen by the general public as partisan politics along partisan lines and Disney will alienate a large market share.

I think people will get over whatever contrived grievance they've been told to have against Disney pretty quickly once the political tides wash over on these issues and people remember how much they liked Disney trips.

Disney had to fight this. Otherwise, if you give a mouse a cookie..

 

[GoofGoof]

As much as I hate him abusing his position to punish a corporation I’m even more concerned with how he’d respond to a country that dared oppose him. He’s had several chances to end this spat with Disney, a couple that would have even given him a draw/small win, and instead has chosen to escalate the situation every time, if he can’t even handle diplomacy with Disney how can he be trusted to handle difficult and often tense relationships with hostile countries like China?

This pit bull attitude may be attractive to the far right but I think it’s driving the center away, and no amount of post primary backtracking will likely get them back. They may not vote for the other guy but if they stay home it has nearly the same affect.

Agreed, I can tell you that DeSantis is losing a lot of ground in places he needs to be concerned with. This childish act doesn’t play well in swing states with moderate voters that he needs to win in a national election. Many people still want a candidate who acts presidential. Sure Trump won a national election but he also lost one and Trump 2016 was a lot more of a mystery. I know many people who voted for him in 2016 assuming he’d “start acting presidential” once in office and didn’t vote for him in 2020 when that never happened. Plus why vote for baby Trump when you can just vote for actual Trump. I don’t see this DeSantis act as a winning formula.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney had to fight this. Otherwise, if you give a mouse a cookie..

They really haven’t which is a big part of why it keeps escalating.

 

[Drdcm]

They really haven’t which is a big part of why it keeps escalating.

That’s the main reason I thought there were back-door dealings. You and I got into it about that in the past. I acknowledge I was wrong.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Outside of maybe selling children out of the basement I’d be willing to look the other way on just about anything In-and-Out burger does. No politician should ever punish any business who brings us such tasty joy

Sorry, had In n Out for the first time when we drove my daughter to college…it was good, but not the “religious experience” so many from Cali claim…we have Checkers out here…just as good, but White Castle puts them both to shame…Chik fil A, there just isn’t a comparison…

 

[Riviera Rita]

Frankly I’m surprised this has escalated so far. Neither of them should want this to escalate further. I thought for sure there was some back door dealing that would allow Disney to keep doing what they’re doing. I still wonder if something got messed up with said potential dealings, because I still have a hard time believing the state didn’t send anyone to those meetings or to review the updated land agreement.

The sad thing is, I don’t see a way for Disney to come out ahead in this. If it gets escalated further, even a legal “win” will be seen by the general public as partisan politics along partisan lines and Disney will alienate a large market share.

In general, US party allegiances are too strong for reason to prevail when thinking about this stuff. We can crap on “both sides” arguments all day, but the reality is neither side is going to change their minds on this scenario if it plays out in court system under the national spotlight.

The only way for both sides to “win”, is for it to fizzle out after they’re done beating their chests at each other.

On a side note, I truly do try to seek out the best in people - the opposite of politics. Outside the politicians themselves, I think most people don’t vote with malicious intent, they think they’re doing the right thing.

Before you call me out, please realize that I work in mental health and spend my entire day working with people who have very strong beliefs about all sorts of things. It takes a lot of effort to withhold judgement, but I work very hard at it. Although… there are some folks on these boards that irritate me

Disney didn't start anything. This is a political stunt by DeSantis, just like the rest of his policies that he claims are giving back power to the parents. He bans books, but, watching Wesh News on YouTube it appears that in central Florida, gun violence is on the increase and considering guns are the biggest killers of children and young people in the US I think banning books is not as important as protecting children, in fact protecting all Floridians and visitors from bullets.
Tell me, do you care about the mental health of children who are afraid to go to school or have their parents put bullet proof shields in their school backpacks along with their packed lunch?

 

[GoofGoof]

Lol I tried In and Out when I made my first trip to Disneyland last year. IMO it was pretty overrated but I know in California they are considered sacrosanct.

Alot of people take issue with them printing Bible verses on their packaging, but as a non-religious person it's fine with me. And if people don't like that, they're free to not do business with them.

Also I have my, pardon the pun, beefs with Chik-Fil-A with their beliefs, but I also acknowledge they are a very well ran company who puts out a good product with happy employees. I don't patronize them very often at all, but I cannot argue anything negative about how they are ran as a company.

I actually love the fact that in and out isn’t on the East coast because it’s a special treat whenever I get out West. If there was one down the street I’d probably be over it fast. 5 guys is probably just as good but I don’t go very often even though it’s right around the corner.

Honestly, I never even looked at the wrappers, but it wouldn’t bother me either. I’m there for the burgers and fries. Funny story, I bought a used car once from a large regional place (4 or 5 locations) not far from my house that mostly sells used cars off of leases (low mileage less than 3 years old). When checking the car over I noticed that there was no owners manual in the glove box but it was replaced with a bible. I assumed whoever traded it in lost the owners manual but didn’t want to be charged when turning in the car off of lease so slipped in a bible instead. When I told the salesman my theory he laughed and said the owner includes a bible with every car he sells and he ordered me a new manual from Honda. Even though I never touched the Bible again it was in that glove box the rest of the time I owned the car. Definitely gotta be some bad juju if you throw away a bible . I wasn’t going to risk it.

 

[Riviera Rita]

Lol I tried In and Out when I made my first trip to Disneyland last year. IMO it was pretty overrated but I know in California they are considered sacrosanct.

Alot of people take issue with them printing Bible verses on their packaging, but as a non-religious person it's fine with me. And if people don't like that, they're free to not do business with them.

Also I have my, pardon the pun, beefs with Chik-Fil-A with their beliefs, but I also acknowledge they are a very well ran company who puts out a good product with happy employees. I don't patronize them very often at all, but I cannot argue anything negative about how they are ran as a company.

I don't care about their religious beliefs, I just don't like them telling their female employees what to do with their own bodies.

 

[Drdcm]

Disney didn't start anything. This is a political stunt by DeSantis, just like the rest of his policies that he claims are giving back power to the parents. He bans books, but, watching Wesh News on YouTube it appears that in central Florida, gun violence is on the increase and considering guns are the biggest killers of children and young people in the US I think banning books is not as important as protecting children, in fact protecting all Floridians and visitors from bullets.
Tell me, do you care about the mental health of children who are afraid to go to school or have their parents put bullet proof shields in their school backpacks along with their packed lunch?

Umm yes?

 

[tissandtully]

Lol I tried In and Out when I made my first trip to Disneyland last year. IMO it was pretty overrated but I know in California they are considered sacrosanct.

Alot of people take issue with them printing Bible verses on their packaging, but as a non-religious person it's fine with me. And if people don't like that, they're free to not do business with them.

Also I have my, pardon the pun, beefs with Chik-Fil-A with their beliefs, but I also acknowledge they are a very well ran company who puts out a good product with happy employees. I don't patronize them very often at all, but I cannot argue anything negative about how they are ran as a company.

CFA has better alternatives around me and it usually works out because the alternative has the same quality food and no drive thru line around the building. The CFA in my town has a PDQ across the street and people will wait 20 minutes in the drive thru at CFA for some virtue chicken while PDQ is empty. I’ll still go to CFA though if it’s the only option.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I'm told that Universal privately acknowledges that hurting Disney also hurts them in Orlando. Their Orlando business is down.

Universal and WDW have increased prices significantly since the end of the pandemic. Hotel discounts suggest this summer bookings were soft as Guests moved offsite in order to afford higher ticket & food prices and Genie+. In the last quarter, Per Capita Guest Spending was up 8% while Per Room Guest Spending was up only 1%.

Meanwhile, at Universal, we've seen large increases in annual pass and hotel prices. Rather than look at Disney, Universal needs to look at their own pricing policy.

We're past the "revenge vacation" period, when many took post-COVID vacations no matter what the cost. Both Disney and Universal have to get real about what their target customers can afford.

 

[Stripes]

In case anyone had any doubt what started this whole fiasco, with all the bad faith arguments, semantics, all the talk about how this is somehow Disney's fault, they had it coming, ect. Let's put that all to bed now. There is now no question, no doubts at all now.

Here is Ron DeSantis, blatantly, pointedly, admitting he and the legislature, are targeting Disney for retaliation for exercising their First Amendment right to free speech for criticizing a law he championed. It couldn't be anymore clear what motivated him to get the legislature have the state take over RCID and whatever else they could take control of Disney's operations from Disney:

Ron DeSantis Says He’ll “Win On Every Single Issue” Involving Disney, Vows To Void Florida Theme Park Development Agreement And Threatens Hotel Taxes And Road Tolls

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is escalating his war with The Walt Disney Co., saying he'll "win on every single issue."

deadline.com

"In his remarks, he also was clear that the move to strip Disney of control over Reedy Creek was in response to its position on the parental rights bill. “We just had to look at this and say, ‘OK, do they have a quote, First Amendment right to be advocating for gender ideology in Kindergarten? Yeah, I guess. Is that honestly faithful to their fiduciary duty to their shareholders? I don’t think so. But that’s not really in my wheelhouse as governor, but what I can tell you as governor is that under no circumstances should the state of Florida be subsidizing woke activism by allowing them to have their own government. So we took it away.” "

Disney would have an uphill battle arguing their First Amendment rights were violated. The United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit (would have jurisdiction over this case) have previously declined to strike down legislation that was clearly retaliation for protected speech because there was nothing unconstitutional about the law itself and the court argued that their decision would not stop the legislature if they were to pass the exact same law and the politicians didn’t make ill-advised comments and speeches this time around.

But, Disney has many avenues other than the First Amendment to go after whatever DeSantis and Co. tries to do, including the contracts clause and potentially the takings clause and the equal protection clause. Disney may also argue that the state takeover was illegal as well.

 

[GoofGoof]

The sad thing is, I don’t see a way for Disney to come out ahead in this. If it gets escalated further, even a legal “win” will be seen by the general public as partisan politics along partisan lines and Disney will alienate a large market share.

What would a win look like for Disney? Right now they have most of the same control they had before this started with the same tax rates. I don’t think it’s a big win but it’s not a bad loss either. Pretty meh for them. Disney doesn’t need to sue anyone or get a legal win, they have to defend a legally signed contract which is “boring contract law” stuff that few care about. It was a pretty brilliant move to diffuse the situation. A version of cooler heads prevailing by going from a struggle over a hot button social issue to a mundane contract dispute.

As far alienating a large market share I really don’t see that as a big issue. Many people have an opinion one way or the other on the issue that started this whole thing but few actually care enough to act on it. I bet you if you polled people at WDW right now you’d get plenty of people who support the Governor and the bill that started all of this. Didn’t stop them from visiting WDW or watching the Mandalorian or going on a Disney cruise. They may have lost some business but you cannot please everyone and not speaking up would have also alienated some customers so right now the best thing Disney or any corporation can do is to pick a message and stick to it. I think if we look at the NFL as an example we can see that actual business is not greatly impacted despite a small group griping on social media. A very vocal minority claimed they were done with the NFL over the kneeling during the national anthem and claimed the league would suffer as a result. Ratings now are better than ever and the league is thriving. I don’t know how many of those people kept their promises to stop watching but it hasn’t seemed to matter for business.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It was a pretty brilliant move to diffuse the situation. A version of cooler heads prevailing by going from a struggle over a hot button social issue to a mundane contract dispute.

The situation has not been diffused. It escalated, again.

 

[Mr. Stay Puft]

Disney would have an uphill battle arguing their First Amendment rights were violated. The United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit (would have jurisdiction over this case) have previously declined to strike down legislation that was clearly retaliation for protected speech because there was nothing unconstitutional about the law itself and the court argued that their decision would not stop the legislature if they were to pass the exact same law and the politicians didn’t make ill-advised comments and speeches this time around.

But, Disney has many avenues other than the First Amendment to go after whatever DeSantis and Co. tries to do.

But this is a state official, a Governor nonetheless, flat out admitting he's doing this to retaliate against a company for their 1A rights. He's not being coy or using coded language or even using strawman gaslighting talk to justify it. He's literally saying "Yes, we are definitely doing what Disney is accusing us of."

 

[GoofGoof]

Universal and WDW have increased prices significantly since the end of the pandemic. Hotel discounts suggest this summer bookings were soft as Guests moved offsite in order to afford higher ticket & food prices and Genie+. In the last quarter, Per Capita Guest Spending was up 8% while Per Room Guest Spending was up only 1%.

Meanwhile, at Universal, we've seen large increases in annual pass and hotel prices. Rather than look at Disney, Universal needs to look at their own pricing policy.

We're past the "revenge vacation" period, when many took post-COVID vacations no matter what the cost. Both Disney and Universal have to get real about what their target customers can afford.

Those revenge vacations in a lot of cases were also paid for using government stimulus money, especially with workers who never lost wages but still got stimulus. That stream has dried up. This Summer I’m going to Universal and I agree it was a bit of sticker shock. I haven’t been there since 2018 and wow

 

[Stripes]

But this is a state official, a Governor nonetheless, flat out admitting he's doing this to retaliate against a company for their 1A rights. He's not being coy or using coded language or even using strawman gaslighting talk to justify it. He's literally saying "Yes, we are definitely doing what Disney is accusing us of."

There are some differences between this case and the one the court ruled upon. But, I still don’t think the First Amendment is their best argument.

These comments will definitely help Disney‘s case when they argue that the state didn’t have a “significant and legitimate public purpose.”