Really, REALLY bad decisions...

[Enderikari]

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, but the odds are not high that a true Disney parks lover could disagree with EVERY single thing I listed. I made mention of some of the parks' most beloved and most missed attractions and you toss them off like they're nothing. If you drank the Kool-Aid and believe Disney isn't capable of making bad decisions, then that's your opinion.

Hi, I am a Disney Parks lover, I would wager to say much more than most of the people on this board. I devoted a major portion of my working life to making the guest experience at Walt Disney World the absolute best it could possibly be. I bleed magic out of my pores (its an uncomfortable condition, I know) and still use my annual pass on AT LEAST a weekly basis.

My love of Walt Disney World isn't "drinking the Kool-Aid." It stems on appreciating what I have before me. Some of the parks most beloved attractions? Sure, fine... people dug Mr. Toads; people miss 20K. But millions of people danced the Macarena too... Nostalgia isn't what it used to be. Toad WAS CARDBOARD CUT-OUTS. 20K was FISH ON STRINGS. Sure, you can associate happy memories with it, sure you can pine for the good old days. But to automatically dismiss the changes as a "bad" decision is your very own opinion, and certainly not a Universal one. (The point I made to a group of my co-workers yesterday involved asking how many times their kids have seen Wind in the Willows?

The point I am trying to make, is that from these boards and others (Micechat is the absolute worst), I can see another form of Kool-Aid being passed around. They like to call themselves "Disney Purists" but I can vouch for the fact that they have no love for Walt Disney World. They hate everything about it, and love to spread around their opinions as fact. They delight in the demagoguery of watching easily led people accept every bit of bile spewn forth from their heads.

I hope you enjoy your Kool-Aid, sir... I've heard its good frozen...

I hope its grape (I love grape kool-aid)

The point where you really lost me was your Horizons comment. Horizons was the best attraction in Future World and fully encompassed what Epcot was all about. The detail, storyline, design.. everything.. is unparalleled. If you are so interested in backing up statements factually, then you can't comment on a ride that you yourself can barely remember.

I barely remember COP II - Electric Bugaloo? No sir, I remember it well enough... My statements stemmed from the fact that nobody, besides the folks who post here and other sites, remembers anything else about that ride (if they even remember it at all). Unparalleled is a big word, and far too large a scope to use in this instance. I personally find the educative qualities, the animatronics, and the storyline of American Adventure more than on par with Horizons. I prefer the level of immersiveness that comes from The Seas with Nemo & Friends, and Soarin. I love the detail that stems from Small World.

Got anything else, or should we just agree to disagree?

 

[jsfra209]

Letting River Country rot for all to see.

HERE, HERE!! I agree 100%. That is the ultimate in boneheard moves. What a shame as well... :shrug:

 

[mousermerf]

I barely remember COP II - Electric Bugaloo? No sir, I remember it well enough... My statements stemmed from the fact that nobody, besides the folks who post here and other sites, remembers anything else about that ride (if they even remember it at all). Unparalleled is a big word, and far too large a scope to use in this instance. I personally find the educative qualities, the animatronics, and the storyline of American Adventure more than on par with Horizons. I prefer the level of immersiveness that comes from The Seas with Nemo & Friends, and Soarin. I love the detail that stems from Small World.

Lots of people remember Horizons though. Just saying it's just fanatics is simply not true. I had to work in Future World while they were building M:S and had to deal with questions about it all the time. Folks commonly didn't recall the name, but they knew a scene or the scent or the ride system - at least sufficiently for it to be identified.

I can't tell you much about America Sings at DL, there's a good chance you'd describe a whole scene to me and i'd be baffled - but there are very few people involved with or at Disney who you could walk up to and mention just a few bits of info about Horizons and not have them identify it. It was an iconic and memorable experience.

 

[CThaddeus]

MY OPINIONS (I'm stating this up front, lest anyone think I'm posting facts):
1. Tie: Removing Horizons (though I do like Mission: Space)/putting in Lights, Motors Action (worst show EVER) and reducing even further the Tram Tour.
2. Removing World of Motion and putting in Test Track (ooo, can I really pay admission to Epcot to ride in a car?)
3. Changing Journey Into Imagination into the two unimaginative things they've been since 2000.
4. Putting in Alien Encounter; but I'm glad it was changed to Stitch.
5. Changing the original Tiki Room into Under New Management.
6. Changing EPCOT into Epcot (this includes the Wand and the Tombstones).
7. Firing all the animators and turning the wonderful Animation Tour into the lame walkthrough it is now.
8. Pooh's Playful Spot. Three playgrounds just mere feet from each other? Oye.
9. Getting rid of the Timekeeper. Best Circlevision film ever.
10. The Hat blocking Disney-MGM's best attraction and ruining a great 1920s-30s Hollywood-like view.
11. Allowing Wonders of Life to die, then turning it into a convention space.
12. Chester n' Hester's Dino-Rama! I get it. It's still lame, tacky, and cheap.

And to those who might think these make me a purist...not true. I do like many of the recent changes/additions (ie. Stitch, The Nemo Musical, Mission: Space, Ellen's Energy Adventure, and more). I'm also a huge Disney fan, though I am being very critical of them here. I hold them to a high standard, and when they kill great attractions like Horizons or put in schlock like Under New Management, I think it's worth expressing my displeasure. And again, just to be quite clear - THESE ARE ALL JUST MY OPINIONS. YOU MAY DISAGREE. THESE ARE NOT...REPEAT, NOT FACTS.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I think the treatment of Epcot post-Test Track to some current actions is the worst. The loss of WoM, Horizons, and JII was too much. I think this was further compounded by some really well done moves by the company at the same time (especially I:ROE, Soarin' - when it gets a more relevant film, the updates to the countries' films, and the growth of F&W to name a few countered with the horrendous ERDT update, the wand, et al., and the script of the Seas)

Secondly, I don't like the overcharacterization that is going on. I realize Disney has a new meaning to this new generation, but I firmly believe that Disney's greatest downfall of recent times is restraint. If guests want one character attraction, give them 5. If something has lower lines, it is better to shoehorn some marketable property in than revamp or create a compelling attraction. Luckily, again, there are some signs of change being balanced by still poor decisions.

Third, the generic merchandise is just awful. It's the same at every resort, theme park, etc. I used to actually enjoy shopping at the parks because I got my generic stuff at DTD or a hotel. Now, it's the same, and it's the same in every shop across a single park. I really hope this ends.

Fourth, SPILLS INTO SHOPS! This will always be a major pet peeve of mine. It's fine/great to have a shop for an attraction, but don't force me into it and DON'T force me into a kiosk of wares in my exit path. That will almost 100% prevent me from buying anything, ever.

Fifth, the College Program (please let me finish). I think the program itself is great. Unfortunately, I think the training and expectations are lower than they should be. This is largely a management problem that comes with too low a pay and a top-heavy corporate structure. I think more can be expected of college students when they are pushed, especially when the task is pretty cool when explained and packaged correctly.

Finally, not building BK or a version thereof. I think that is the major thing lacking from DAK right now, and it is perhaps the best and most fitting idea that is still shelved. It would solve many problems and add so much IMHO. But, luckily this one isn't necessarily dead like a destroyed attraction would be.

 

[NJDVCMembers]

Removing those tasty trans-fats from everything in favor of healthy stuff... I don't travel on vacation to eat salad and skinless-free range chicken. I want the stuff to clog an artery and block a valve... heck I'll sign a damn release if need be!!!

and where the heck did the Beaver Tails go ...

this topic has me so upset I'm running out to Dunkin' Doughnuts right after I get finished at the gym!!!

 

[rcapolete]

The dumbing down of rides (El Rio del Tempo, Living Seas)

Allowing gay committment ceremonies (no flaming please...I'm just being honest and the OP DID ask)

Refurbishing POTC to match the movies (I know I'm in the minority here)

I'm sure I can think of several more, but those are the ones that come to mind right off the bat.

Sorry that your life is so empty that it would offend you that two people that are in love be it man/man, or woman/woman want to get married at WDW.
As a straight man i find no issue what so ever with this becuase last time i checked we are all humans.
The fact that everyone on this board overlooked this homophobic comment is suprising to me since normally people pick apart everything people post.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Sorry that your life is so empty that it would offend you that two people that are in love be it man/man, or woman/woman want to get married at WDW.
As a straight man i find no issue what so ever with this becuase last time i checked we are all humans.
The fact that everyone on this board overlooked this homophobic comment is suprising to me since normally people pick apart everything people post.

While you have a strong right to express that opinion, just as that poster has his, let's try to keep this out of it. I would guess that a large percentage of WDWMagic-goers do not agree with that sentiment, but others likely do. Let's just keep it at that and let it be water under the magical bridge.

 

[ROEFan88]

11. Allowing Wonders of Life to die, then turning it into a convention space.

This subject has always fascinated me - to this day I still fail to see why Disney would completely lose confidence in one of its attractions, then simply leave it closed for several years.

It baffles me to think that there is even MORE to do at Epcot which just isn't accessible to guests - an ENTIRE pavilion that's just standing there, with attractions still inside, intact. Surely it can't be that difficult (or expensive) to polish the place up just enough so it's in an acceptable condition for guests.

It frustrates me that Body Wars and Cranium Command are still there, but I can't get to them.

Until recently, it seemed Wonders Of Life was headed the same way as River Country... So yes, CThaddeus, leaving WOL to rot = BAD DECISION (but I'm open to being proved wrong by a sincere and justifiable reason...)

 

[Agent1964fem]

Letting River Country rot for all to see.

Hear Hear !!!

Wilderness Lodge 1997
Caribbean Beach 2003
Port Orleans - Riverside 2005
Wilderness Lodge 2007
Polynesian 2009

 

[marni1971]

Allowing Eisner to be CEO and Chairman of TWDC for so long after Frank Wells' death. His first decade was magical for WDW. His second was a nightmare.

The individual list is too long.

 

[Now Is The Time]

Hi, I am a Disney Parks lover, I would wager to say much more than most of the people on this board. I devoted a major portion of my working life to making the guest experience at Walt Disney World the absolute best it could possibly be. I bleed magic out of my pores (its an uncomfortable condition, I know) and still use my annual pass on AT LEAST a weekly basis.

My love of Walt Disney World isn't "drinking the Kool-Aid." It stems on appreciating what I have before me. Some of the parks most beloved attractions? Sure, fine... people dug Mr. Toads; people miss 20K. But millions of people danced the Macarena too... Nostalgia isn't what it used to be. Toad WAS CARDBOARD CUT-OUTS. 20K was FISH ON STRINGS. Sure, you can associate happy memories with it, sure you can pine for the good old days. But to automatically dismiss the changes as a "bad" decision is your very own opinion, and certainly not a Universal one. (The point I made to a group of my co-workers yesterday involved asking how many times their kids have seen Wind in the Willows?

The point I am trying to make, is that from these boards and others (Micechat is the absolute worst), I can see another form of Kool-Aid being passed around. They like to call themselves "Disney Purists" but I can vouch for the fact that they have no love for Walt Disney World. They hate everything about it, and love to spread around their opinions as fact. They delight in the demagoguery of watching easily led people accept every bit of bile spewn forth from their heads.

I hope you enjoy your Kool-Aid, sir... I've heard its good frozen...

I hope its grape (I love grape kool-aid)



I barely remember COP II - Electric Bugaloo? No sir, I remember it well enough... My statements stemmed from the fact that nobody, besides the folks who post here and other sites, remembers anything else about that ride (if they even remember it at all). Unparalleled is a big word, and far too large a scope to use in this instance. I personally find the educative qualities, the animatronics, and the storyline of American Adventure more than on par with Horizons. I prefer the level of immersiveness that comes from The Seas with Nemo & Friends, and Soarin. I love the detail that stems from Small World.

Got anything else, or should we just agree to disagree?

This literally is pure comedy. Hey I've agreed to disagree a long time ago. What difference does it make that Mr. Toad had "cardboard cut-outs?" It was a beloved attraction and still keeps people riding it otherwise it wouldn't still be in Disneyland. That's the problem here - the belief that newer technology always means better attractions and that is simply not true.

So Disney purists hate Disney and "nobody" remembers Horizons eh? LOL. And you think I'm the one making bold statements? I'm assuming you've taken some kind of poll and questioned people all over the world to back that up? You speak for everyone huh? LOL. You don't speak for me my friend.

Hello! I never claimed that everyone should agree with me. Of course my opinions aren't "universal." Geez.

Still waiting for one reputable point that you can make but have yet to hear one. But alas, I'm loving the hilarity.

One final point. You say "nostalgia isn't what it used to be?" If it wasn't for people's love of Disney and making personal memories there, there wouldn't be things like this forum in existence. The very essence of nostalgia drives us in this forum. Many of us are still kids at heart. It's not the end-all-be-all.. but it's certainly one of the main things at the core.

Again, pure comedy. :lol:

 

[Matpez]

Allowing gay committment ceremonies (no flaming please...I'm just being honest and the OP DID ask)

I can just be honest too and say I disagree with you...

however, topics like this should be avoided here, they are the quickest way to get a thread closed.

Maybe you and I can be kind and disagree about it, but others can not.

Also, I must agree 100% with "Journey into your imagination"
Removing Figment was possibly one of the worst decisions ever!

 

[MMC4Life]

Hardest thing

For me, the thing I still can't get over is putting the two most populated rides at MGM (RnRC and ToT) down the same street right next to each other. There is only one way in and one way out. You might as well as spread out the park and not put two E Tickets RIGHT next to each other!! GRRR

End vent

 

[tonganprince]

Since this involves our opinion, I would say...

Removing the wand <ducks>


OK, OK, Calm down. I personally don't care either way, but next time we go, my daughter is going to be looking for it and I have to explain that many many people hated it with the passion of 1000 suns.

Not looking forward to that converation.

 

[chels26]

reason14 getting rid of the EVIL TOWER U R DOOMED letters on ToT before the library

okay.. when i was at ToT a couple weeks ago.. i looked for that.. and couldn't find it.. and my sister thought i was crazy and said i made it up because it was never there. Thank you for clarifying that.

and im mad they took it away as well!

 

[beachclubbasics]

I think the All Stars were a mistake. Pop i can deal with, but the All Stars jsut seem cheap in many ways. They could have been done better.

Not implementing a better mass transit system and not planning for it. Instead we get buses and excuses as to why monorail wont work - gee.. maybe if you had planned for them?

Demo/Rebuild versus New Growth, there's no good reason to tear down many things, they've got tons of space.

I agree, a couple of weeks ago, while I was at MK, two monorails on the same line broke down within an hour of each other. the 12 monorail fleet might have been OK when there was only MK and was adequate when Epcot was built....but that was when the crowds were a LOT smaller than they are now. 45 minutes to go from the MK to the Poly is not acceptable to most people. Plus they are crowding so many people into each car now that when the doors open people are in danger of falling out. It's a shame they can't add wider/bigger monorails like Tokyo has, but they can't because the tracks are too close together in many spots...I think that happened because they needed to put them so close together to fit as neatly as they do through the Contemporary.

Also, there has been a lot of "holding for traffic" on the monorails lately. One ride we sat "holding" for over 10 minutes.

It got so annoying that I started driving everywhere, We never take the buses because, on our first experience 2 years ago at the BC, the bus to MK took an hour to show up. It was much faster and more convenient to drive.

 

[beachclubbasics]

Horizons sinking and being gobbled up by a sink hole is an urban legend/disney myth that has been repeated so many times it seems people have accepted it as fact.

There is zero evidence in any pictures of the ride, and the interior/exterior of the structure that would support the claim that it was "unsafe" due to major structural defieciencies. I must also wonder why would WDW re-open Horizons to the public like they did if it were sinking, or if the ride were unsafe. I bet their legal dept. would have loved that one...

The reports that claim WDW frantically tried to save the structure which was having trouble supporting itself are laughable. A structure that is straining to support itself would have obvious signs of stress and fatigue. Also how exactly would they have made those "frantic" efforts to save the building without anyone noticing construction going on? In order to save a structure that is unsafe and straining to hold itself up would require some visible signs of constrcution. There were many people documenting Horizons during this timeframe and none of them noticed anything.

Beyond that is the claim that the ride system was tearing the building apart. An Omnimover traveling at an astonishing 1.7 MPH would just put incredible stress on a structure...

I now release control of the soap box...

I have to agree with you here...the evidence that Horizons was NOT sinking is that they built another buiding in the same spot. Unless they did something to insure against the future sinking of another building that would be a heck of a chance to take building something such as Mission Space in that area. I'm sure that the movement of MS puts much more pressure on a structure than those turtle slow Omnimovers ever could have.

 

[beachclubbasics]

Third, the generic merchandise is just awful. It's the same at every resort, theme park, etc. I used to actually enjoy shopping at the parks because I got my generic stuff at DTD or a hotel. Now, it's the same, and it's the same in every shop across a single park. I really hope this ends.

Fourth, SPILLS INTO SHOPS! This will always be a major pet peeve of mine. It's fine/great to have a shop for an attraction, but don't force me into it and DON'T force me into a kiosk of wares in my exit path. That will almost 100% prevent me from buying anything, ever.

Fifth, the College Program (please let me finish). I think the program itself is great. Unfortunately, I think the training and expectations are lower than they should be. This is largely a management problem that comes with too low a pay and a top-heavy corporate structure. I think more can be expected of college students when they are pushed, especially when the task is pretty cool when explained and packaged correctly.

.

I agree with you on this as well. I never understood having a program like the college program and not using the students in their area of expertise, but putting them in low wage jobs like merchandise or food service (like I paid 50K for college to work in a glorified Mc Donald's). They do the very same thing to new employees when they expect everyone to start out in a job such as merchandising or custodial. I understand that WD Corp claims that it builds knowledge of park operations and company loyalty, but, when you have someone like me who has experience in public relations, corporate sales, and teaching and would make an excellent CM trainer, park PR person etc and you insist that they work in food service or custodial, without a clue as to whether something in their field will open up in the future is a waste of valuable knowledge and resources. it's also a reason why I will not work at WDW until I retire..then I don't care if I am working in food service or merchandising because it's only a PT job,although, again, I could be better used elsewhere.


As far as being dumped from rides into shops..that's the main reason why it took me years to convince my kids to go to WDW...they always thought that it was nothing more than a huge Disney Store. Thinking about it, maybe they are right in that respect.

I also agree with the generic merchandise..it reminds me of the generic Disney souvenirs you find in tose crummy gift shops on 192.

You know what got to me the most on this last trip? The Art of Disney selling TRACED sketches of characters for $35+ ! what the heck is that all about?

 

[DME]

I agreee.. Thats why I wait until my last day to shoip b/ cI know I can get pretty much anything I see anywhere

I agree 100%!!!!!!