Ratatouille in Epcot

[Cesar R M]

Whether or not people have ever watched an episode of The Twilight Zone, they know Rod Serling, they know what it's all about and they know the theme song. Those are iconic elements of pop culture that have lasted generations.

The majority of people either have no idea what a Doctor Who is or are vaguely aware that it is a quirky British sci fi show. A weirder Star Trek. I'm sure that's not a fair assessment of the show. But that's how most people view it.

The Twilight Zone is far more recognized than Dr. Who is ever likely to be.



Exactly. It would be like having a pavillion dedicated to US history and cultrue and then having the only attraction be a Star Trek ride.

Id honestly would prefer to see in the UK either Sherlock, or some of the old Navy stories.
With Horatio Nelson.. (a la Horatio Hornblower series)

 

[Gomer]

It's not atheist sensitivities, but religious sensitivities that make Disney shy away from religion in their parks.

Just to back you up here, as an avowed atheist, I could care less if there are statues of Jesus in the parks as long as they are treated as statues and not being used for any religious conversion purposes. To me, as an atheist, a statue of Jesus is no different than the Venus De Milo. It’s a work of art.

That being said, I do find the giant godzilla sized Jesus statue to be an odd choice for a WS Icon. It seems like it doesn’t fit with the rest of the pavilions very well from a purely aesthetical standpoint. But, that’s just my opinion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’d love Disney to stick with its mission statements from day one and never waver. But that may not be realistic. The world has changed, and it is not as hospitable to the dreams of Walt as it was 50 years, or even 10 years ago. At some point Disney needs to compromise modern expectations with their own traditional values in order to maintain relevance.

Being treated like an idiot is not a modern expectation but that has become Disney's means of relevance. Quality products and service that respects the customer still sells.

 

[GoofGoof]

But...it isn't over any atheist sensitivities that Christ the Redeemer would likely not be build. But because of religious sensitivities, often so easily inflammable.

Imagine if that Norway stave 'church' had been a consecrated church - with toon princesses in it! Lutherans would be up in arms.

Imagine if the Morocco minaret/mosque had been part of an actual mosque. WDW's guests would have to cover their legs and arms, plus all those much more private body parts they leave exposed. Men and women would have to enter the pavilion separately, families split up, shoes taken off. Never mind Yasmine meeting&greeting people in a bra. WS would have to be permanently patrolled by guards with machine guns!

What of a Christ the Redemeer statuette that receives the same respect Disney shows Norway? 'Disneyfied', with a pink magicband around his wrist, a sign above his head reading INRfp+, and the DVC shop beneath Jesus hanging on the cross advertising its products with such typical Disney punnery as 'you too can permanently hang out at WDW'.

It's not atheist sensitivities, but religious sensitivities that make Disney shy away from religion in their parks.

You can't have an authentic World Showcase that teaches guests about the real host culture but leave out a large part of that culture. Nobody is suggesting they hold a Sunday Mass in front of the Brazil pavilion. Over 85% of the population of Brazil is Christian and this statue is one of the most well known landmarks in the country. I don't think Brazilian people would be upset with building a replica as long as it's done in a tasteful and respectful way. I see no problem with talking about religion and showing religious symbols as they relate to the culture of the host country. Be it Morocco, Norway or a new Brazilian or Israeli pavilion.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Just to back you up here, as an avowed atheist, I could care less if there are statues of Jesus in the parks as long as they are treated as statues and not being used for any religious conversion purposes. To me, as an atheist, a statue of Jesus is no different than the Venus De Milo. It’s a work of art.

That being said, I do find the giant godzilla sized Jesus statue to be an odd choice for a WS Icon. It seems like it doesn’t fit with the rest of the pavilions very well from a purely aesthetical standpoint. But, that’s just my opinion.

Also, I feel, in the scale of that concept art...it would be as if Jesus is looking down upon WS. If you're a Christian, that's fine and dandy...but it could turn off some believers of other faiths.

Personally, I'm like you in the sense that I think it's a work of art...but I see DIsney steering clear (Unless, like I said earlier, it was scaled down and off in the distance)

 

[Bocabear]

Just to back you up here, as an avowed atheist, I could care less if there are statues of Jesus in the parks as long as they are treated as statues and not being used for any religious conversion purposes. To me, as an atheist, a statue of Jesus is no different than the Venus De Milo. It’s a work of art.

That being said, I do find the giant godzilla sized Jesus statue to be an odd choice for a WS Icon. It seems like it doesn’t fit with the rest of the pavilions very well from a purely aesthetical standpoint. But, that’s just my opinion.

This... As long as the Minaret at Morocco is not actually being used as a mosque, The Stave Church is not having services... the architectural expressions are purely art that evokes the culture... Christ The Redeemer would not be an affront at all...unless they tried to use it as a religious shrine.

 

[Gomer]

Being treated like an idiot is not a modern expectation but that has become Disney's means of relevance. Quality products and service that respects the customer still sells.

I’d argue that being treated like an idiot is an unfortunate modern expectation of many, but that isn’t an argument to be had here as it wasn’t the point I was trying to make. This is the spoonful of sugar mentality. Can educational attractions be disguised within a visceral attraction to attract guests who may not realize what kind of enjoyment they could get out of a more traditional educational attraction. Can a purely visceral attraction be made neighbor to an educational one to entice people to the park and then hope that they continue on to what else is there.

Soarin is the perfect example of this. I wasn’t happy with what happened to my beloved land pavilion after Soarin moved in. But I like Soarin enough as a simple soft thrill ride. But, how many more people go on living with the land now because of Soarin’s proximity to that educational ride. If Soarin didn’t exist, I think it’s a distinct possibility LWTL would have joined the other extinct educational rides of FW by now. Just speculation, but I think that Soarin (the necessary evil) saved a classic FW attraction in LWTL.

 

[lebeau]

You can't have an authentic World Showcase that teaches guests about the real host culture but leave out a large part of that culture. Nobody is suggesting they hold a Sunday Mass in front of the Brazil pavilion. Over 85% of the population of Brazil is Christian and this statue is one of the most well known landmarks in the country. I don't think Brazilian people would be upset with building a replica as long as it's done in a tasteful and respectful way. I see no problem with talking about religion and showing religious symbols as they relate to the culture of the host country. Be it Morocco, Norway or a new Brazilian or Israeli pavilion.

I highlighted the rub for you. This is Disney. At some point, they would do something tacky to the statue. Like birthday cake Jesus or Magic Wand Jesus or BAH Jesus. You name it. They'll paint googly eyes on him to promote the direct-to-video release of Planes 3. Or have topiaries of Phineas and Ferb on either side of him. At some point, they would do something that would upset the faithful.

 

[DisneyDad1977]

I highlighted the rub for you. This is Disney. At some point, they would do something tacky to the statue. Like birthday cake Jesus or Magic Wand Jesus or BAH Jesus. You name it. They's paint googly eyes on him to promote the direct-to-video release of Planes 3. Or have topiaries of Phineas and Ferb on either side of him. At some point, they would do something that would upset the faithful.[/QUOTE

Like the "buddy Christ" from Dogma?
I'd link a picture but I'm pretty sure I'm using dialup here in Ukraine!

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’d argue that being treated like an idiot is an unfortunate modern expectation of many, but that isn’t an argument to be had here as it wasn’t the point I was trying to make. This is the spoonful of sugar mentality. Can educational attractions be disguised within a visceral attraction to attract guests who may not realize what kind of enjoyment they could get out of a more traditional educational attraction. Can a purely visceral attraction be made neighbor to an educational one to entice people to the park and then hope that they continue on to what else is there.

Soarin is the perfect example of this. I wasn’t happy with what happened to my beloved land pavilion after Soarin moved in. But I like Soarin enough as a simple soft thrill ride. But, how many more people go on living with the land now because of Soarin’s proximity to that educational ride. If Soarin didn’t exist, I think it’s a distinct possibility LWTL would have joined the other extinct educational rides of FW by now. Just speculation, but I think that Soarin (the necessary evil) saved a classic FW attraction in LWTL.

Disney's decisions are still heavily guided by a leadership culture that has no respect for theme parks as an artistic medium or a vacation medium. Educational facilities, like museums, represent some of the best in themed entertainment as well as being a area of continued growth. It seems bizarre that museums today are expanded by embracing Disney's 'irrelevant' practices of the past and that is because the issue has far more to do with Disney's attitudes. That attitude of contempt allows things to fall apart and become the proof that they are 'irrelevant.'

 

[Gomer]

I highlighted the rub for you. This is Disney. At some point, they would do something tacky to the statue. Like birthday cake Jesus or Magic Wand Jesus or BAH Jesus. You name it. They's paint googly eyes on him to promote the direct-to-video release of Planes 3. Or have topiaries of Phineas and Ferb on either side of him. At some point, they would do something that would upset the faithful.

Maybe you are on to something here. Make the Brazil pavilion, and put the BAH on the statues head. We get our views of the Chinese theater back, and you get some nice mashing of culture and characters in WS just like Disney wants. Its a win-win. I don’t see anyone having an issue with that…

 

[GoofGoof]

I highlighted the rub for you. This is Disney. At some point, they would do something tacky to the statue. Like birthday cake Jesus or Magic Wand Jesus or BAH Jesus. You name it. They's paint googly eyes on him to promote the direct-to-video release of Planes 3. Or have topiaries of Phineas and Ferb on either side of him. At some point, they would do something that would upset the faithful.

I disagree. They have a history in World Showcase of respecting the cultures of the host countries. There are no lights on the Morocco pavilion during Illuminations. From what I have heard its for religious purposes. They also don't have any images of people in the mosaics throughout the pavilion.

 

[Gomer]

Disney's decisions are still heavily guided by a leadership culture that has no respect for theme parks as an artistic medium or a vacation medium. Educational facilities, like museums, represent some of the best in themed entertainment as well as being a area of continued growth. It seems bizarre that museums today are expanded by embracing Disney's 'irrelevant' practices of the past and that is because the issue has far more to do with Disney's attitudes. That attitude of contempt allows things to fall apart and become the proof that they are 'irrelevant.'

I get what you are saying here, but Museums are attracting those looking for an educational experience. Even if they are adding in some fun elements to make it less dry, it is still a primarily education event to go to a museum or science center. Disney is attracting vacationers who for better or worse aren’t looking for museums. Outside nerds like myself who actually like to learn, learning is not the primary driver for theme park attendance.

In a time when you can find vastly more information that was ever taught in the history of epcot on the internet in a matter of minutes, the pure exposure to information and activities is no longer enough to drive people to the park. This is why innoventions is such a shell of its former self. People don’t need to travel across the world to get a view of new technology. They’ve already seen the next big thing from home. Disney needs to wrap these things up in a pretty package. This can be done in a way that preserves the message or a way that does not. Disney has been able to do both in the past, but I will concede that their success rate is diminishing in recent years. But I still maintain, that requiring purity due to lapses in how past compromises were executed will only result in an even wider disconnect between Epcots core values and the ADD mentality of today’s theme park goers. There is middle ground that can meet the needs of all. Inability to find that in the past does not mean it is impossible to obtain in the future.

 

[lebeau]

I disagree. They have a history in World Showcase of respecting the cultures of the host countries. There are no lights on the Morocco pavilion during Illuminations. From what I have heard its for religious purposes. They also don't have any images of people in the mosaics throughout the pavilion.

You have more faith in Disney's common sense than I do.

 

[Sam Magic]

I highlighted the rub for you. This is Disney. At some point, they would do something tacky to the statue. Like birthday cake Jesus or Magic Wand Jesus or BAH Jesus. You name it. They's paint googly eyes on him to promote the direct-to-video release of Planes 3. Or have topiaries of Phineas and Ferb on either side of him. At some point, they would do something that would upset the faithful.

I doubt it with something so religious, they know it would start crap and their not going to let it. Based on the Concept art it does not look too tall. However I could see them doing this (which is already done BTW)

 

[lebeau]

I doubt it with something so religious, they know it would start crap and their not going to let it. Based on the Concept art it does not look too tall. However I could see them doing this (which is already done BTW)

Hopefully Disney will never prove me right.

 

[Captain Neo]

Because:
1. they are probably planning something for DHS that does in not include the rat
2. the ride looks like this:

Except in America they will put a huge cardboard Remy on the building to let people know "RATATOUILLE RIDE IS IN HERE" otherwise they would get confused

 

[lebeau]

Ok, Doctor Who is a show that is in my wheelhouse. I love sci-fi. I love comedy. I love heroes that deal with sarcasm.

I watched one season (with David Tennant as The Doctor) and while I liked HIM...I just couldn't get into the show. My uncle is a HUGE fan (has been since he was a kid) so I watched it based on his recommendation.

I didn't find anything "cool" about it...I didn't find anything that jumped out and said, "You've gotta see NEXT week's episode!". It was a forgettable show (IMO).

There are those that are fanatical about it...and those that don't like it. I rarely have met somebody that is a casual Doctor Who fan.

I've found that those that are fans, eat, sleep, and breathe Doctor Who from Tardis cookie jars to Dalek toys on their desk. That's perfectly fine...but sometimes it blinds them (not saying it's blinding anybody in this thread, just in general) from deciphering what they want, from what is right.

Haha, I'm sure there are more than a few Disney fans that try to fit "Disney" into every aspect of their life too

I had much the same reaction. I watched the 2005 relaunch and thought it was not without its charms, but it wasn't for me. I forget how many episodes I watched before I gave up.

 

[Tod&BigMamaOdie]

Might I suggest an experience based on Old Gregg from Mighty Boosh?...

 

[Bocabear]

World Showcase has a minaret tower in Morocco, Tori Gate and Temple in Japan, Campanile and Doge's Palace in Italy, Stave Church in Norway, Temple in China and a Mayan Temple in Mexico...The world showcase is rife with "religious" structures already, and they have never been used in a disrespectful manner...nor have any of them been used for religious purposes... It is about the architecture as cultural art... I think the Christ statue would be fine...and I am quite positive Disney would never use it as a merchandising tie in... Sure TDO makes some odd decisions, but I don't think they would ever go that far....