Princess Fairytale Hall - when is it supposed to open?

[lazyboy97o]

In your opinion. Even if the walls were moved forward or eliminated all together it wouldn't matter. There would not be any more room for another attraction there. And FLE did increase capacity. Just as much as they had originally planned. But I don't think that was the point or intention. Meet and Greets are becoming more and more a part of the fold with Disney Parks wether we like it or not. They are as popular as the classic E-tickets. So much that random meet and greets are almost impossible to control. Disney saw that shift and addressed it with FLE. FLE was never intended to be for the fanboys. It was intended for the little boys and little girls. You know, the billion dollar industry they cater to? I think they achieved their goal with FLE.

The dead space does not just include the Castle Wall area, which used to be plenty big enough for an attraction. I am talking about the spatial organization of the entire project. You can doubt that the project was about capacity, but you'd be wrong. Capacity was the primary goal. By poorly using space it limits the ease of future growth and crowd control.

I couldn't agree more, people keep complaining of the "dead space" probably have never been there when the park is busy and that "Dead space" is very much alive with a lot of people flowing in and out.

There is plenty of wasted space that is not accessible to pedestrians but now otherwise unavailable due to poor organization.

 

[JustInTime]

The dead space does not just include the Castle Wall area, which used to be plenty big enough for an attraction. I am talking about the spatial organization of the entire project. You can doubt that the project was about capacity, but you'd be wrong. Capacity was the primary goal. By poorly using space it limits the ease of future growth and crowd control.


There is plenty of wasted space that is not accessible to pedestrians but now otherwise unavailable due to poor organization.

I am aware of what was located in that spot before. But there wasn't a roller coaster butting up against dumbo before. There just isn't room for an attraction there now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I am aware of what was located in that spot before. But there wasn't a roller coaster butting up against dumbo before. There just isn't room for an attraction there now.

You're right, there wasn't a little D-Ticket there before, just a massive E-Ticket.

 

[JustInTime]

You're right, there wasn't a little D-Ticket there before, just a massive E-Ticket.

I thought the subs were father back than snow white and a little more to the left?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I thought the subs were father back than snow white and a little more to the left?

The visible lagoon lined up rather closely to the site of the current construction walls.

 

[englanddg]

I thought the subs were father back than snow white and a little more to the left?

Much further back. Though, they were to the right (walking into the area from the Castle). LM and much of Toon Town Fair is built on the land it used to sit on.

 

[JustInTime]

The visible lagoon lined up rather closely to the site of the current construction walls.

The overhead shots I see look like it was much farther back. I guess it doesn't matter, but even if the castle walls didn't exist, an attraction in that plot would create a flow nightmare. That is all I am saying. Also, I kinda love the castle walls. But if it's a personal thing for you, I completely understand! I hate the way future world looks in Epcot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Much further back. Though, they were to the right (walking into the area from the Castle). LM and much of Toon Town Fair is built on the land it used to sit on.

The Little Mermaid is built on the site of just the showbuilding, but not the attraction's entire footprint. None of ToonTown Fair was built on the attraction site as the lagoon was not filled in until well after its conversion, not to mention the years when the attraction operated concurrent with Mickey's Birthdayland and Mickey's Starland.

 

[danlb_2000]

I couldn't agree more, people keep complaining of the "dead space" probably have never been there when the park is busy and that "Dead space" is very much alive with a lot of people flowing in and out.

I think this is the key reason for not putting another attraction there. There already was a lot of traffic going through that area before the expansion was build, and now that it's open it's a major intersection right in the middle of Fantasyland. I think having the open space there will really help with crowd flow which will only get worse when the mine ride opens.

 

[JungleTrekFan]

The dead space does not just include the Castle Wall area, which used to be plenty big enough for an attraction. I am talking about the spatial organization of the entire project. You can doubt that the project was about capacity, but you'd be wrong. Capacity was the primary goal. By poorly using space it limits the ease of future growth and crowd control.

A) Fantasyland needed an open area for the stroller parking garage that is needed during busy days, that way it eases congestion over near IASW, PP, Philarmagic (does that have an abbreviation on these boards?) and directly behind the castle itself

B) It’s the best form of crowd control, the one that isn’t needed? Wouldn’t an open area like this, town squares, large plazas, etc. never have to worry about crowds because they were all designed for them in mind?
Don’t get me wrong i love working PAC shifts and yelling at people to stay to the right because we had to make a 4 ft walkway into a two lane human highway through main street or Frontierland. But i think it makes more sense to just make the walkways a little bigger, or have a large plaza area where you can escape the congested human highways and enjoy some street performers.
DLP or DL might not have these huge open areas but then again they also don’t have the same park attendee's as MK does. WDW deals with many families with young children, who can’t live without their strollers.

There is plenty of wasted space that is not accessible to pedestrians but now otherwise unavailable due to poor organization.

What space is unavailable? The part where they planted trees? Or where they put a gorgeous new restaurant or meet and greet? Im seriously not sure what space is not being used and thus being wasted.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

DLP or DL might not have these huge open areas but then again they also don’t have the same park attendance numbers as MK does.

DLP is physically larger than MK and does not have the same stroller/ECV abuse it does (or the same type of strollers), which is why it doesn't need a large plot of empty space for stroller parking.

DL cannot have "huge open areas" due to its limited size. Attendence is around 94% of what MK has, so that is not a deciding factor.

 

[TP2000]

DLP or DL might not have these huge open areas but then again they also don’t have the same park attendee's as MK does. WDW deals with many families with young children, who can’t live without their strollers.

Your point has some validity for Disneyland Paris, although that park isn't exactly a sleepy backwater with 11.2 Million aimed at the eight good weather months in France. But Europeans are far more sensible parents when it comes to weaning their child off a stroller by age 3.

But for Disneyland USA? That park does 94% of the annual attendance of Magic Kingdom Park, with 20 missing acres of size, hosting milions of tourists from around the world plus the 20 Million "locals" who live within 2 hours freeway drive of Disneyland in Southern California.

Magic Kingdom Park - 17.5 Million visitors per year on 107 acres
Disneyland Park - 16 Million visitors per year on 85 acres

One look at the stroller parking area in the Small World Mall (the only real open area in Disneyland's Fantasyland) and you can tell that strollers are just as much of a problem at Disneyland as they are at Disney World.

Honey, where'd you park the stroller?!?

Don't you remember, we left it over in DCA in front of the Hyperion Theater!

 

[Magenta Panther]

God, I hate strollers.

 

[TP2000]

God, I hate strollers.

Yup. The good news is that it's quite the fashion with the younger generation of parents to not use them past two years of age. At least in some parts of the country.

I had some young members of the family come to visit me at different times this past spring; two young affluent hipster families from Portland and Seattle, all very fit and healthy and slender and smart. They brought their 4 to 5 year olds to spend spring break with Uncle TP2000 and we went to Disneyland and DCA for two days each. There were no strollers involved. The children simply walked each day. I repeat, the children walked. From Cars Land to Fantasyland to Critter Country to Hollywood Land, and everything inbetween.

When I steered the topic of conversation to strollers (or lack thereof) one day over lunch as I was impressed they didn't feel the need for one, it was simply stated that strollers are not healthy for children and its best to keep them moving and teach them to move about the planet on their own two feet. We weren't climbing the Andes after all, we were simply spending the day at a relatively flat theme park in a comfortable climate with plenty of food and water and rest breaks. Amazing how blunt it seems when a young hipster mom just spells it out like that.

And it's true, children can walk. The need of the last 25 years to place a child in a stroller through their early school years is an ugly shortcoming of American society. The Europeans don't do it in their theme parks. The Japanese don't do it in their theme parks. And for thousands of years children walked a lot more than an occasional day at Disney World without the aid of a stroller to cart them around to the next snack time.

 

[startraveler]

I think strollers are more transportation for the family's stuff than the family's kids. It's a lot easier to push your backpacks, cameras, and other stuff than to carry it around all day. Just a thought.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think strollers are more transportation for the family's stuff than the family's kids. It's a lot easier to push your backpacks, cameras, and other stuff than to carry it around all day. Just a thought.

But this then begs the question, why do so many feel the need to go backpacking in a theme park?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

But this then begs the question, why do so many feel the need to go backpacking in a theme park?

Because if my kid goes 5 minutes without snacks, juice, plush toys, colouring books, video games or other stimulus I'm failing as a parent. I can't expect the World's most popular theme park to keep them entertained for a day.

 

[PirateFrank]

Because if my kid goes 5 minutes without snacks, juice, plush toys, colouring books, video games or other stimulus I'm failing as a parent. I can't expect the World's most popular theme park to keep them entertained for a day.

This is a snarky, thoughtless and unfair belittling of the need of backpacking necessary items within the parks, and you know it.

You're clearly not a parent. Either that, or a very poor one.

Before we depart the hotel for any park, we pull out the backpack and stuff it with necessary items. These items include - rain gear for the entire family, a dslr camera, 1-2 additional lenses, first aid supplies, water, etc

Now, if I forget the camera, I might not 'fail' as a parent....but if I forget rain gear, water and band aids -- in a matter of 5 minutes, I can have a skinned knee, a dehydrating kid and a downpour....sorry, pal. The backpack is necessary and it contains none of the crap you allude to. Put your head back in the sand.

 

[n2hifi]

But this then begs the question, why do so many feel the need to go backpacking in a theme park?

It's a whole lot cheaper to pack some basic snacks, drinks and supplies in a backpack than to purchase them in the parks. That said I would rather lug a backpack on my shoulder than navigate a stroller through crouds, but the stroller does serve as a nice containment vessel when one of the DD's needs downtime and the other is full of energy.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

This is a snarky, thoughtless and unfair belittling of the need of backpacking necessary items within the parks, and you know it.

You're clearly not a parent. Either that, or a very poor one.

You're clearly not a very good reader as I chose the words "stimulus" and "entertained" for a reason. I'm not degrading those who take water or first aid.