Possible Frontierland expansion

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So I assume you were one of the people cheering the removal of 19th century submarines from said land?

I'm not the biggest 10K Subs fans actually, so I'm probably not the person to ask. I'm actually rather indifferent to them being gone now that the land has actually been re-used instead of being left to rot. However, yes, the subs really did not belong in Fantasyland, especially as it is currently constructed.

To Disney's credit, the new Fantasyland is much stronger thematically than ever before. The Circus should IMHO be considered a different land entirely instead of a subland but the "Castle Courtyard" and "Fantasyland Forest" aspects look and work great.
 

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
In the early 1970s when the park was designed and built, Big Thunder area was not even there. There was a small train station near the Parade Gate, and a landing for TSI...that was it. Liberty Square was never intended to be a full land, but more a stylistic spot and place for The Hall Of Presidents to sit. If you want to nitpick, The Haunted Mansion's Gothic infused style also does not fit the time or era of Liberty Square...So...I think within the context of the park it all works... If you want to get upset about something aim more at Monsters Inc in TOmorrowland...and Stitch, and the Grand Prix Speedway...none of those have anything to do with TOmorrowland... and the Grand Prix was original to the park... so go figure...
I just don't understand the appeal of Grand Prix. Not even as a kid, I am very surprised this land hasn't been repurposed yet.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
Nothing at the parks should be sacred. They should all be expendable for something stronger.
...um... Dumbo, the Teacups and the Carousel take up minimal space. I can't see anything on par with POTC/HM fitting in their spots. There's no incentive to replace flat rides with a relatively small footprint.

And I disagree. The major attractions shouldn't get replaced until EVERY last possible expansion pad is filled. They're 'sacred' until there's no more room. MK potentially could add 17-20 more attractions without closing anything else, just using the expansion pads and poorly utilized space.

But POTC, HM, IASW, Peter Pan, Big Thunder, Splash and Space shouldn't leave ever. JC can leave MK due to Animal Kingdom rendering it redundant, but those 7 have no real reason to leave, especially with how big of draws they are. I do agree that anything else is up for replacement.

Same goes for ToT, Kilimanjaro, Spaceship Earth, any of the WS attractions other than Frozenstrom, probably Soarin'/Test Track, and probably Everest/SDMT due to how expensive rockwork is.

No one truly thinks Splash should close or be rethemed. It's a great ride. That doesn't mean we can't wish it was placed in an appropriate location to begin with. It should be in Fantasyland. That would also be a more appealing location for the park's 3rd mountain. But, it's been where it is for more than two decades and it's a wonderful ride, so it's water under the bridge now.

Kinda like Tower of Terror, which also doesn't belong at the end of a 1940s street. Great rides get to bend the rules a bit. This is what worries me about Frozen Ever After, actually--poorly placed AND potentially a crappy ride? Ugh.
Bald Mountain is the only mountain that truly belongs in Fantasyland.

Splash Mountain would have been better in a Critter Country expansion north of Big Thunder (Splash as the headliner, Pooh used as a transition from Critter to Fantasyland, Bambi, a relocated Country Bears and that Autopia-style ride themed to critters to flesh out the land). A new show would go in the old Country Bears locale.

Then WRE or Geyser Mountain could have gone where Splash and the pad between Pirates/current Splash are.

We'd keep Mr. Toad, get a brand new land, get rid of a huge bottleneck, and expand Frontierland WITHOUT closing anything. If only TDO hadn't been so short-sighted back in the early 90s ;)


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They could have always built a North American subland for Fantasyland that contained Splash, Dumbo and Bambi.

But Fantasyland definitely doesn't have that much consistency.

Dumbo is set in the United States.. Peter Pan is early 20th century, IASW is definitely early to mid 20th century due to the carnival in the finale, and 20K was 19th century, so Fantasyland has always been more of a 'storybook/fairy tale' land than strictly 'medieval castle'.

I'm not the biggest 10K Subs fans actually, so I'm probably not the person to ask. I'm actually rather indifferent to them being gone now that the land has actually been re-used instead of being left to rot. However, yes, the subs really did not belong in Fantasyland, especially as it is currently constructed.

To Disney's credit, the new Fantasyland is much stronger thematically than ever before. The Circus should IMHO be considered a different land entirely instead of a subland but the "Castle Courtyard" and "Fantasyland Forest" aspects look and work great.

I'd love to see 20K come back as part of a Mysterious Island subland in Adventureland. Or as part of a steampunk replacement for the Speedway. Either way, 20K should come back some day.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I just don't understand the appeal of Grand Prix. Not even as a kid, I am very surprised this land hasn't been repurposed yet.
I don't understand the appeal of the Tea Cups, but I still recognize their place in Magic Kingdom.

Just because I don't like something does not mean it is bad and should be ripped out. The same is true for everyone else.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
But... But... It's the future of every child! Assuming they get their license and can afford a car!
Then why can they go experience it at LEGOLAND and Fun Spot if it's so 'futuristic'? ;)

Similar to Tokyo Disneyland, the Speedway should be demolished. Then, Fantasyland gets the old Speedway footprint for Wonderland or IASW (not likely, but doing so would open up space by the Tangled toilets/Peter Pan), while room is left for a tunnel to a Tomorrowland expansion behind the old Speedway.

If they actually bothered to make the Speedway look futuristic (electric cars with neon LEDs at night, sci-fi scenery, tunnels, 2-3 show scenes, etc), I don't think anyone would mind its existence that much. But currently, it's a waste of space that's blocking future capacity expansion in a park that desperately needs it.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the appeal of the Tea Cups, but I still recognize their place in Magic Kingdom.

Just because I don't like something does not mean it is bad and should be ripped out. The same is true for everyone else.
A flat ride that takes up no space, doesn't smell bad and actually fits its area's theme isn't the same as something that takes up a gigantic footprint, smells awful and doesn't fit its area's theme.

The Speedway also blocks a big expansion pad behind it that could fit 3-4 decent-sized attractions.
 

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
A flat ride that takes up no space, doesn't smell bad and actually fits its area's theme isn't the same as something that takes up a gigantic footprint, smells awful and doesn't fit its area's theme.

The Speedway also blocks a big expansion pad behind it that could fit 3-4 decent-sized attractions.
I agree with you, it really never "fit-in" and it takes up a ton of real-estate. (and is terrible for the environment)
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
A flat ride that takes up no space, doesn't smell bad and actually fits its area's theme isn't the same as something that takes up a gigantic footprint, smells awful and doesn't fit its area's theme.

The Speedway also blocks a big expansion pad behind it that could fit 3-4 decent-sized attractions.
You have obviously never smelled Voban before.;)
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Then why can they go experience it at LEGOLAND and Fun Spot if it's so 'futuristic'? ;)

Similar to Tokyo Disneyland, the Speedway should be demolished. Then, Fantasyland gets the old Speedway footprint for Wonderland or IASW (not likely, but doing so would open up space by the Tangled toilets/Peter Pan), while room is left for a tunnel to a Tomorrowland expansion behind the old Speedway.

If they actually bothered to make the Speedway look futuristic (electric cars with neon LEDs at night, sci-fi scenery, tunnels, 2-3 show scenes, etc), I don't think anyone would mind its existence that much. But currently, it's a waste of space that's blocking future capacity expansion in a park that desperately needs it.

I'll make a deal with you. I'll stop giving you grief every time you go off-topic on an armchair imagineering limb and you stop posting about how the speedway should be demolished.

Deal?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the appeal of the Tea Cups, but I still recognize their place in Magic Kingdom.

Just because I don't like something does not mean it is bad and should be ripped out. The same is true for everyone else.

I remember when I first went to Disney World, back when it was just the MK. As a four year old and then a five year old, all I wanted to do was two things: the Speedway and Small World. Loved that I could drive a car like the grown ups and that song was damn catchy.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
I'll make a deal with you. I'll stop giving you grief every time you go off-topic on an armchair imagineering limb and you stop posting about how the speedway should be demolished.

Deal?
Only if the expansion pad behind the Speedway is accessible and they enhance the current Speedway.

Is it too much to ask for electric cars and some sci-fi theming for the Speedway? Currently, it's a plain track with 90s go-karts.

I wouldn't mind the Speedway if it was a drive through an extraterrestrial planet. Then it loosely fits the sci-fi aesthetic of Tomorrowland without smelling awful or looking completely out of place.

I get that little kids love it, but teens and adults should get some theming so they can enjoy it, too. MK is for everyone, not just little kids.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Only if the expansion pad behind the Speedway is accessible and they enhance the current Speedway.

Is it too much to ask for electric cars and some sci-fi theming for the Speedway? Currently, it's a plain track with 90s go-karts.

I wouldn't mind the Speedway if it was a drive through an extraterrestrial planet. Then it loosely fits the sci-fi aesthetic of Tomorrowland without smelling awful or looking completely out of place.

I get that little kids love it, but teens and adults should get some theming so they can enjoy it, too. MK is for everyone, not just little kids.
I will be the first to welcome and update to the Speed Way, but it needs to stay.

As to MK is for everyone...every attraction does not need to appeal to every demo. If we use a single corner of TomorrowLand as an example the Speed Way is for Kids, SM is for teens and adults and CoP is for Disney nuts of every age.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
So thats a No..... gotcha.
What?

I didn't say demolished. I just want something that isn't equivalent to something you can find at a regional amusement park. The only difference is that Fun Spot and LEGOLAND do it far much better.

All I want is something semi-futuristic.

Gas-guzzling 90s go-karts aren't futuristic. Unthemed asphalt tracks aren't futuristic.

Electric cars and something to look at isn't insane or crazy. Removal is a bit much, but actual theming makes me some crazy fanboy?

For $75-80 million, the Speedway could be visually stunning and actually make the 30-40 min wait worthwhile.

If I'm paying $100 to get in, I want something better than what Fun Spot or LEGOLAND (both far cheaper than MK) have.

I get you're nostalgic about the Speedway... but that shouldn't make it exempt from change until the end of time.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
What?

I didn't say demolished. I just want something that isn't equivalent to something you can find at a regional amusement park. The only difference is that Fun Spot and LEGOLAND do it far much better.

All I want is something semi-futuristic.

Gas-guzzling 90s go-karts aren't futuristic. Unthemed asphalt tracks aren't futuristic.

Electric cars and something to look at isn't insane or crazy. Removal is a bit much, but actual theming makes me some crazy fanboy?

For $75-80 million, the Speedway could be visually stunning and actually make the 30-40 min wait worthwhile.

If I'm paying $100 to get in, I want something better than what Fun Spot or LEGOLAND (both far cheaper than MK) have.

I get you're nostalgic about the Speedway... but that shouldn't make it exempt from change until the end of time.

I get that you love Armchair Imagineering, but you shouldnt make the rest of us suffer as a result....
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
I will be the first to welcome and update to the Speed Way, but it needs to stay.

As to MK is for everyone...every attraction does not need to appeal to every demo. If we use a single corner of TomorrowLand as an example the Speed Way is for Kids, SM is for teens and adults and CoP is for Disney nuts of every age.
I don't mind the Speedway staying if:
it gets a drastic overhaul (electric cars and some sci-fi theming/rockwork)
the track is reworked to allow a path/tunnel to a Tomorrowland expansion behind it

I don't think wanting the Speedway to be a solid attraction is all that crazy.
 

CaptainAmerica

Well-Known Member
I don't mind the Speedway staying if:
it gets a drastic overhaul (electric cars and some sci-fi theming/rockwork)
the track is reworked to allow a path/tunnel to a Tomorrowland expansion behind it

I don't think wanting the Speedway to be a solid attraction is all that crazy.
I think the point that @PhotoDave219 is trying to make is that your preference vis-a-vis the Speedway is irrelevant to this News & Rumors thread on Possible Frontierland Expansion."
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I don't mind the Speedway staying if:
it gets a drastic overhaul (electric cars and some sci-fi theming/rockwork)
the track is reworked to allow a path/tunnel to a Tomorrowland expansion behind it

I don't think wanting the Speedway to be a solid attraction is all that crazy.
Not crazy at all. I would love for them to hand the thing over ot Elon Musk and let him Teslafy the thing.
 

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