Possible Frontierland expansion

[wdwgreek]

Half a dozen b and c ticket omni-movers was what I wanted to see for the Fantasyland expansion. They are relatively inexpensive to build, staff and maintain, fit the demo for that section of the park and would have pulled thousands of guests off the sidewalks and into attractions every hour.

So three or four little mermaid style Omni movers are what you have in mind? Honestly those dark ride people eaters, are popular, I'm surprised how few they have added of these types of attractions as of late. What is the added capacity of new fantasyland?

 

[ToTBellHop]

So three or four little mermaid style Omni movers are what you have in mind? Honestly those dark ride people eaters, are popular, I'm surprised how few they have added of these types of attractions as of late. What is the added capacity of new fantasyland?

It was foolish not to include at least three of them in the expansion. Could you imagine if they had built Mermaid and similar rides for Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin?

New Fantasyland added about 4000 guests/hour capacity, I believe. Two more rides like Mermaid in lieu of 7DMT (which is nice but unnecessary for the park) would have increased capacity by 7500/hour and cost roughly the same.

As if we needed proof that WDI is not efficient at deriving maximum benefit from its spending.

 

[aladdin2007]

Half a dozen b and c ticket omni-movers was what I wanted to see for the Fantasyland expansion. They are relatively inexpensive to build, staff and maintain, fit the demo for that section of the park and would have pulled thousands of guests off the sidewalks and into attractions every hour.

I totally agree with you, but I feel like Disney doesn't want people off the sidewalks, they have purposely designed fastpass per say as an example so people are jamming stores and dining so they can make more money. Disney would rather not have to spend on attractions, upkeep, and maintenance. Its a retail business anymore sadly. I think the tides are shifting "a bit" now thankfully, but thats what the direction has felt like the last decade.

 

[Bocabear]

This project is still in early development. There is an understanding that the 50th needs to be big.

But a lot can change in 5 years. Hopefully we get more than just new fireworks and two parades.

We will also get a boatload of advertising and marketing....and pins...lets not forget them....
With the speed of construction what it is, Disney Springs, Avatar, and Star Wars Land will be the grand 50th offerings

 

[Sped2424]

Tomorrowland needs love a lot sooner than Frontierland.

I think adventureland could use the love first!

 

[aladdin2007]

I think adventureland could use the love first!

I think adventureland def needs some cleaning up. Its a clog of a layout esp with the magic carpets where they are, and get rid of the sunglass store that belongs in a mall. It was nicer when it was apparel and what not...return orange bird to the tiki room exit, but no they had to take away that theming too with the vines and decor etc. Oh this thread is about frontierland after all, I was daydreaming lol.

 

[doctornick]

It was foolish not to include at least three of them in the expansion. Could you imagine if they had built Mermaid and similar rides for Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin?

New Fantasyland added about 4000 guests/hour capacity, I believe. Two more rides like Mermaid in lieu of 7DMT (which is nice but unnecessary for the park) would have increased capacity by 7500/hour and cost roughly the same.

Why not both? They could have had 7DMT and added other rides. The back corner of Storybook Circus (where the tents are) is completely underutilized and could have fit 1-2 dark rides. And they could have certainly put a show building on the other side of the access road for the Utilidoors, put the queue/load & unload in Fantasyland Forest (say as part of Bell's village) and have the ride travel over the access road.

Such poor use of space.

 

[aladdin2007]

Why not both? They could have had 7DMT and added other rides. The back corner of Storybook Circus (where the tents are) is completely underutilized and could have fit 1-2 dark rides. And they could have certainly put a show building on the other side of the access road for the Utilidoors, put the queue/load & unload in Fantasyland Forest (say as part of Bell's village) and have the ride travel over the access road.

Such poor use of space.

not to mention removing a ride entirely for a meetngreet, when it could have been another dark ride snow white or not.

 

[Brer Panther]

It doesn't really help that the one new dark ride we DID get really isn't very good.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It doesn't really help that the one new dark ride we DID get really isn't very good.

I personally think Mermaid would do fine if it didn't have such an excessive queue and wasn't the only new ride when NFL first opened. It's not good enough to stand alone but its storytelling and theming are better than Pooh and Pan in my opinion. But with its queue, you are expecting Mansion, which it certainly isn't.

 

[Imagineerwannabe]

At least WDW has a themed area for mermaid to sit perfectly in...DCA didn't get that luxury ;-)

 

[erasure fan1]

New Fantasyland added about 4000 guests/hour capacity, I believe. Two more rides like Mermaid in lieu of 7DMT (which is nice but unnecessary for the park) would have increased capacity by 7500/hour and cost roughly the same.

Are you sure? Because we lost 20k and Snow White so we technically we added no new attractions, just a place to eat.

 

[No Name]

Have we heard about any cuts from large capital investments? (Seriously, I don't think I've seen that -- in fact, Disney actually announced purchasing two new cruise ships.) The "cuts" we've heard from P&R are operational budgets it seems.

The ships were announced now but won't start sailing for 5 and 7 years So while that's true, the real cost of these ships probably won't be seen until sometime in 2018. Which is when Bob Iger leaves. Isn't that just odd timing?

Cruise line seems to operate on a different budget than the parks.

Yes, I don't know why, but it's a good thing it does. It's a good thing the penny-pitching execs have actually left it in control of people who know what they're doing, rather than ruining the ships and profits at the same time. DCL continues to uphold its quality standards while the parks make cuts, and DCL is growing better compared to competitors, while Universal grows faster than Disney's parks. Hmmm. Sure, the profits for the parks are good, but I believe they could be so much better if Disney upheld a DCL level of quality in that area.

As for this Frontierland expansion? Well... looks less than likely. It was nice to think about. Wonder where whylightbulb is.

 

[unkadug]

Are you sure? Because we lost 20k and Snow White so we technically we added no new attractions, just a place to eat.

A lot of that area was off limits to guests, so guest area increased dramatically.

There's still a lot to be said about increasing acreage so that people aren't as squeezed in like sardines.

 

[asianway]

Are you sure? Because we lost 20k and Snow White so we technically we added no new attractions, just a place to eat.

Skyway, keelboats, canoes, birthdayland and Tomorrowland theatres, diamond horseshoe

 

[ford91exploder]

Half a dozen b and c ticket omni-movers was what I wanted to see for the Fantasyland expansion. They are relatively inexpensive to build, staff and maintain, fit the demo for that section of the park and would have pulled thousands of guests off the sidewalks and into attractions every hour.

Exactly - What we the hardcore fans want are E-Tickets, What the parks NEED are lots of new B and C ticket attractions.

 

[RSoxNo1]

agree, MK is such a capacity issue though they need to do something, the place is bursting at the seams.

It's why the Speedway needs to be removed and Tomorrowland needs to be redone. The Speedway is on some of the most valuable real estate in all of WDW, it takes up a huge amount of space and is remarkable inefficient. Of course, I also want to re-locate it's a small world but at least that's an efficient use of capacity, any capacity gains there wouldn't be as drastic.

For Tomorrowland, Space Mountain needs to have a 100% track and tech rebuild. I'd love to see Carousel of Progress moved to Epcot, but at the very least it needs to be upgraded as well. I would also be totally content if Buzz, MILF and Stitch were all removed. If you want to get really drastic they could even redesign that corridor to allow for dark rides on either side of that path. A very small dark ride could fit in the Stitch area (Snow White's Scary Adventures size), but if the adjacent shops and restaurants are absorbed a more substantial attraction could be built.

 

[RSoxNo1]

MK is in kind of a weird position right now. Any attraction you add that will increase capacity will in turn attract more people and defeat the purpose.

It is something you see in road design called induced demand. When a highway gets clogged up it is logical to add lanes to increase the capacity, but what happens is more people take the new and improved highway and the same problem starts all over again.

One of the ways you solve the problem is to give people other options.

Disney seems to be doing that very thing right now. AK has a big expansion and new night time show just around the corner, the Disney Springs Expansion is nearly finished and DHS is getting what could be one of the most popular theme park lands in history. Hopefully major work at Epcot is somewhere on the horizon as well.

This should, when complete, help to move guests from MK to other parts of the property and help relieve some of the strain on MK.

You're absolutely right, but all 4 parks have been underbuilt under Iger. The Fantasyland Expansion wasn't close to enough of a capacity addition to MK.

I do think that a definitive line can be drawn for DHS where all Pixar attractions from now on go to that park. That moves a Fantasyland-esque component to another park.

It's why I think a Tomorrowland overhaul is also a very solid approach to helping MK's capacity. While Fantasyland can always use more attractions (And removing the Speedway would become more Fantasyland), the appeal of Tomorrowland is that it wouldn't be driven by IP. That can add capacity without the artificial boost that's often generated by IP based attractions.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Exactly - What we the hardcore fans want are E-Tickets, What the parks NEED are lots of new B and C ticket attractions.

B and C tickets scream low capacity to me. I think MK needs about 3 more Mermaid level attractions. D tickets with huge capacity. I would agree that the other parks need Bs and Cs to round out their roster. DHS is very top heavy with E-tickets.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

You're absolutely right, but all 4 parks have been underbuilt under Iger. The Fantasyland Expansion wasn't close to enough of a capacity addition to MK.

I do think that a definitive line can be drawn for DHS where all Pixar attractions from now on go to that park. That moves a Fantasyland-esque component to another park.

It's why I think a Tomorrowland overhaul is also a very solid approach to helping MK's capacity. While Fantasyland can always use more attractions (And removing the Speedway would become more Fantasyland), the appeal of Tomorrowland is that it wouldn't be driven by IP. That can add capacity without the artificial boost that's often generated by IP based attractions.

If phase three is more Pixar, MILK and Buzz could be moved to DHS. I've always thought Its a Small and COP would fit over at EPCOT. Just some armchair from me but you bring up some great points.