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Possible Frontierland expansion

Spike-in-Berlin

Well-Known Member
If I recapture the present situation in FL, I come to the conclusion that some plussing is necessary but an entire expansion would be overkill as long as they did not expand AL and redo TL.

BTMR - Add the effects from DL and it is perfect.
SM- Everything OK.
CBJ - I hate them but they are a classic and I know that they still attract many Americans.
Frontierland Shooting Arcade - Nice little classic, we were invited several times by CM to shoot for free,
TSI- Definitely needs a plussing or redo but I still enjoy the caves and it is still a retreat on very crowded days.
Diamond Horseshoe - Don't know anything about it.

I wouldn't call the addition of another attraction an "expansion" but if they add one more attraction in the next years that would be nice though not exactly necessary.
GIVE ME FIRE MOUNTAIN INSTEAD!;)
 

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
I'm all for it. The problem is it eats up expansion dollars on something that falls under maintenance that should have been done years ago. Or would those dollars come out of a different pool?
 

DisneyNittany

Well-Known Member
If I recapture the present situation in FL, I come to the conclusion that some plussing is necessary but an entire expansion would be overkill as long as they did not expand AL and redo TL.

BTMR - Add the effects from DL and it is perfect.
SM- Everything OK.
CBJ - I hate them but they are a classic and I know that they still attract many Americans.
Frontierland Shooting Arcade - Nice little classic, we were invited several times by CM to shoot for free,
TSI- Definitely needs a plussing or redo but I still enjoy the caves and it is still a retreat on very crowded days.
Diamond Horseshoe - Don't know anything about it.

I wouldn't call the addition of another attraction an "expansion" but if they add one more attraction in the next years that would be nice though not exactly necessary.
GIVE ME FIRE MOUNTAIN INSTEAD!;)

DL's version of SM is vastly superior to our version at MK. Not even close.

For TSI, with how crowded the parks are, I'd like to see them utilize that land more. Stick with the Americana themes of Liberty Square and Frontierland, as well as playing off of the Rivers of America. TSI is split into two portions, right? The lower portion (smaller) and the upper portion (much larger). Theme the lower portion to something similiar to New Orleans Square. If you don't want to take directly from NOS in DL, then what about maybe an 1800s St. Louis? Then, the upper portion could be themed to the Pacific Northwest. Stick with the Rivers of America theme, but essentially following along with the Lewis and Clark Expedition. The lower portion, mimicking a town, could house restaurants, shops, and maybe a dark/boat ride. The upper portion, could hold another 2-3 attractions, two small and one big, to help eat up and disperse crowds.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
DL's version of SM is vastly superior to our version at MK. Not even close.

For TSI, with how crowded the parks are, I'd like to see them utilize that land more. Stick with the Americana themes of Liberty Square and Frontierland, as well as playing off of the Rivers of America. TSI is split into two portions, right? The lower portion (smaller) and the upper portion (much larger). Theme the lower portion to something similiar to New Orleans Square. If you don't want to take directly from NOS in DL, then what about maybe an 1800s St. Louis? Then, the upper portion could be themed to the Pacific Northwest. Stick with the Rivers of America theme, but essentially following along with the Lewis and Clark Expedition. The lower portion, mimicking a town, could house restaurants, shops, and maybe a dark/boat ride. The upper portion, could hold another 2-3 attractions, two small and one big, to help eat up and disperse crowds.
It could never be an island with what you describe.

It should always be an island.
 

Jedi Stitch

Well-Known Member
I see I'm coming to this thread late, but my two cents were rubbing together. Great, MK needs to expand. It has to it is the Flagship of WDW-Florida. The resorts on and off property have expanded to the point that there is no real down time anymore at the parks. Even in winter in Florida you get the Great White Pasty migration to Positive Temperature numbers. It has the land to be able to expand. Adventureland should update and expand. Add more rides, bring back old charter themeing. Ducktales, Tarzan, Keep SFRTH. Expand Frontierland to include more of america. Keep RoA, add St Lewis, New Orleans, Pacific Northwest, Pre-fire Frisco or Seattle. around the river, Add 3 more etickets to each area. Expand Tomorowland, Pick the year the Movie was in, and go for it. Let the imagineers loose on tomorrow, hover craft rides, Robot waiter restaurants. As things sit now, one park needs to take the lead to be the real time machine for tomorrow, and the other needs to take all the Disney Themed tomorrow products and build a ride and merchandise. MK vs EPCOT. I know everyone who running the Dis is thinking $$$$ capitol investments bean counting, but look Pandora has increased DAK popularity. DHS popularity will increase for the next two years with two lands opening. Disney, just plan to have the licence to print money, everyone's coming. Start now.
Oh and the 300-500 Million for the 50th. With all the bunting, and 50 year themeing to be added, thats where that money will go. Just look at DLR 60th theming. Unless they are purposing the 60th bunting to 50th?
Ok off soap box 2 cents spent.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I see I'm coming to this thread late, but my two cents were rubbing together. Great, MK needs to expand. It has to it is the Flagship of WDW-Florida. The resorts on and off property have expanded to the point that there is no real down time anymore at the parks. Even in winter in Florida you get the Great White Pasty migration to Positive Temperature numbers. It has the land to be able to expand. Adventureland should update and expand. Add more rides, bring back old charter themeing. Ducktales, Tarzan, Keep SFRTH. Expand Frontierland to include more of america. Keep RoA, add St Lewis, New Orleans, Pacific Northwest, Pre-fire Frisco or Seattle. around the river, Add 3 more etickets to each area. Expand Tomorowland, Pick the year the Movie was in, and go for it. Let the imagineers loose on tomorrow, hover craft rides, Robot waiter restaurants. As things sit now, one park needs to take the lead to be the real time machine for tomorrow, and the other needs to take all the Disney Themed tomorrow products and build a ride and merchandise. MK vs EPCOT. I know everyone who running the Dis is thinking $$$$ capitol investments bean counting, but look Pandora has increased DAK popularity. DHS popularity will increase for the next two years with two lands opening. Disney, just plan to have the licence to print money, everyone's coming. Start now.
Oh and the 300-500 Million for the 50th. With all the bunting, and 50 year themeing to be added, thats where that money will go. Just look at DLR 60th theming. Unless they are purposing the 60th bunting to 50th?
Ok off soap box 2 cents spent.
Any expansion that happens at MK now would just result in more people coming to MK making any capacity increases moot if not worse. It is a dynamic known as induced demand.

What they need to do is what they are doing which is expanding the other parks to pull guests away from MK and making the attractions at MK run more efficiently.

The rub is they should have done this a decade ago to avoid this problem.
 

HauntedPirate

Sheltered-at-home Park nostalgist
Premium Member
That's a lot of money. Have they ever considered, I don't know, building an original ride or two, instead of gutting and replacing stuff in a park that's busting at the seams every time I'm there?

Because rip-and-replace costs less from an operational standpoint (remember: "Cost containment"). And it also gives them the opportunity to sell nostalgic merchandise ad naseum. I admit, I can be a sucker for it sometimes, but eventually there will come a point where there won't be anything nostalgic left to monetize.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
They've just spent a fortune on extending the land. One that hasn't generated the universal praise they aimed for. Do you really think they'd spend another fortune on infrastructure and engineering so they can spend yet another fortune on a ride?
Maybe they'll realize that better rides generate more praise?
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
Any expansion that happens at MK now would just result in more people coming to MK making any capacity increases moot if not worse. It is a dynamic known as induced demand.

What they need to do is what they are doing which is expanding the other parks to pull guests away from MK and making the attractions at MK run more efficiently.

The rub is they should have done this a decade ago to avoid this problem.
To see this principle in action, just watch what happens when Star Wars Land opens at Disneyland. :eek:
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Any expansion that happens at MK now would just result in more people coming to MK making any capacity increases moot if not worse. It is a dynamic known as induced demand.

What they need to do is what they are doing which is expanding the other parks to pull guests away from MK and making the attractions at MK run more efficiently.

The rub is they should have done this a decade ago to avoid this problem.

Disney wouldn't increase max capacity even if it had the facility to do that. So if we use a basic example(easy numbers) if Park A can hold at max 10,000 guests and operator added rides/shops/F+B/pathways to take it to a 25% increase in capacity the operator wouldn't increase the max capacity, that they can add in, by more than 10%.

For example the more people that are in the park i.e the less personal space around each guest the chance of voluntary spending decreases. Which Disney/Universal/Seaworld/Merlin Entertainment doesn't want. So if we use some real live numbers MK is 100,000 if they increase the capacity on mass scale adding 25% capacity - they would then stop allowing guests in at the same 100,000 guests so the induced demand wouldn't be an issue. The line of thinking is not the attractions are the supply but the number of people(places) allowed in MK. Because you are fixing the supply of number of places allowed, this shouldn't occur - induced demand assumes that as supply increases then demand would increase.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Ignorance vs understanding.

Pretty sure that I was the biggest critic of the change from FLE 1.0 to 2.0 on these boards.

My main point is guests are willing to put up with that whereas with a dying attraction they won't bother queuing even with zero wait time.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
If that were the case then what was proposed for getting approval for WDW overall would be most ambitious stuff ever... it is not.
New Fantasyland was intended as a necessary capacity boost with an initial proposal that included one new ride. It was improved to include an additional solid D ticket with C ticket capacity. They were then disappointed that it didn't increase attendance when that was never the intention.

Disney hasn't added an E-ticket to the Magic Kingdom in 25 years. The park needs additional ride capacity and another headliner or two. New Fantasyland would have been a perfectly fine addition to the park if they had also added other major attractions more recently than Splash Mountain.
 
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