Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[thelookingglass]

Here's an interesting anecdote...

Not too long ago, I witnessed a man in a wheelchair, in army getup, obviously had recently returned from duty, who was missing a leg, be directed through the standby line, to which they obliged without any hesitation. Immediately after, a group of 10+ cheerleaders, still in cheerleader outfits, whip out multiple Guest Assistance Cards and be all like "we got these LOL!!" and then proceeded to sprint through the Fastpass line after the checkpoint.

Make of that what you will.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Widespread problem? Have you surveyed all of these people? I mean, a lot of these people you're talking about are dealing with things you and I can't possibly understand. Putting them at the front of the line or getting them on the bus first isn't asking a whole lot and it's only inconvienence it's costing you. Most of these people can't even ride the most popular attractions. You want to stop fraud, take it up with Disney. I'll support you. Ending a program to help out the disabled because it's inconvienent for you is pretty ridiculous.

As someone who sees this on a near daily basis, Tom Morrow is right, you are wrong, case closed. End of story. Get over your "humble" self and stop snorting the pixie dust.

The human race, or at least the vast majority of them that use GAC cards at Walt Disney World, is not nearly as good-intentioned or honest as you delude yourself into thinking them to be.

 

[misterID]

As someone who sees this on a near daily basis, Tom Morrow is right, you are wrong, case closed. End of story. Get over your "humble" self and stop snorting the pixie dust.

The human race, or at least the vast majority of them that use GAC cards at Walt Disney World, is not nearly as good-intentioned or honest as you delude yourself into thinking them to be.

Um, no, not end of story. What exactly am I wrong about? You should really take Tom's advice and read. I didn't say a word about people not commiting fraud, I actually supported him on that. I'm talking about the selfish pinheads who don't want to let a handicapped person on the bus before them or onto a ride. If this fits your description, then your knee jerk, uninformed, over reaction makes perfect sense and I feel really, really sorry for your parents. They have my sympathy.


And I assure you, I am not humble. And I take great offense to that accusation!

And I don't have anymore Pixie Dust. Spirit sold it all for some EPCOT pins.

 

[Dasnowz]

I know there is wide spread abuse. I have witnessed teenagers with a wheelchair trying to decide who was going to sit in it at the next ride.

but let me ask this... there are many disabilities that you cannot see. What do we do for them? That is the problem Disney faces.

How about a veteran with severe PTSD that cannot handle crowds or someone being in their personal space. They simply want to enjoy some of the quieter rides but all the kids kind of freak them out. So a GAC allows them to do a few rides and they leave early in the day. They have never seen a parade nor are they ever there for fireworks because of crowds. They left with the GAC in hand and their family stayed the afternoon.

How about someone with MS that can walk but heat can cause a flair up and send them bedridden for the next few weeks so they get a card to enjoy 3 or 4 hours in the park. They do as many rides as possible in the short time of the morning. But heat is the main factor and avoided.

How about someone with severe allergies/asthma that has kids who enjoy the parks and wants to be with their family? Perfumes and smells can trigger reactions/attacks so they get a GAC and use alternate entrances so they can ride with their families.

Or how about someone with a neurological condition that causes their foot to drop and leg to swell to uncomfortable size. The leg is painful to touch or be bumped. They walk with a cane but are not steady. They are unable to walk up stairs so they use an alternate entrance. They don't need a wheel chair but just move slow.

I have seen these scenarios and then some. What are the solutions? This is why Disney is not making changes. There is no simple solution. Abuse is there. How to be fair is the problem.

Also this has been said but here it is again Alternate entrance does not mean front of the line. It means that when there is room a CM lets you in. Sometimes you use the FP line but you still wait. Sometimes the alternate entrance has 15 people before you and you still wait 45 min. Some rides only let a few GAC groups on at a time. You wait until one group gets off before they load another group. Sometimes there may not be a wait and you do get on fast.

There is no hard and fast solution. The abuse is a problem and needs to be addressed. But how? I have no idea. Honestly. We have discussed this and no one I know can come up with a fair alternative.

It seems that the abuse comes with ECV's and teens more then anything.

We do need to stop judging everyone though and realize that we don't always know someone's situation. Disney will one day either come up with a solution or stop the program. Maybe cut the amount of ECV's available in half would stop the abuse. Or raise the cost so those wanting to scam realize the cost isn't worth it.

 

[STGRhost]

I hesitate to jump in to the conversation at this point, since I'm pretty sure we've all made up out minds already, but reading the last few pages tonight has made me sad (for lack of a better word).

I think many "non-disabled" posters are missing the point that Steamboat Wil made so well (I don't remember how to quote anyone. Sorry.):
"...That being said follow a special needs family when we go to the parks. EVERYTHING ELSE takes longer. It takes longer to go to the park being loaded and unloaded on a bus where everyone gives you the death stare for holding them up. It takes longer to transfer while in line. It takes longer for bathroom breaks. It takes longer to eat at a restaurant while loading or unloading. How about the people in bag check lines who have to explain their meds to security..."

Guests with disabilities effectively have less time than "normal" guests in which to visit attractions. It's fine to say "they can do Fastpass just like everyone else. They don't deserve anything extra", but in the eyes of someone with a mobility issue (for example), it's not really extra. It's adding back in the time that the disability has taken away from their day. All the time they spend on the things Steamboat mentioned, and sometimes just the extra effort they put into MOVING around the parks, can be made up by being able to avoid some of the waiting they would otherwise do at the attractions. GAC cards help to level the field for these guests. It's hard to see it that way when you don't deal with health issues on a daily basis. It LOOKS like someone is getting something you're not. But for families who do deal with these issues, it can sometimes be the only way they can have a family vacation.

Does it go "above and beyond" what the ADA requires Disney to provide? Sure. That's what Disney is famous for - those little touches of "above and beyond" are what brought most of us here in the first place. Now they have to walk a fine, ever changing line between providing a very significant service to one segment of their guests without alienating another.

On a personal note, I wish some of us would please remember this is a very personal topic for many people, and these discussions will be far more meanigful if the conversation doesn't get nasty. Put yourself in the shoes of whoever's on "the other side".

Edited because Dasnowz said it before me AND better. Dang.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Um, no, not end of story. What exactly am I wrong about? You should really take Tom's advice and read. I didn't say a word about people not commiting fraud, I actually supported him on that. I'm talking about the selfish pinheads who don't want to let a handicapped person on the bus before them or onto a ride.

But I never even mentioned the bus situation! And again, its not about ... nevermind, forget it.

We do need to stop judging everyone though and realize that we don't always know someone's situation. Disney will one day either come up with a solution or stop the program. Maybe cut the amount of ECV's available in half would stop the abuse. Or raise the cost so those wanting to scam realize the cost isn't worth it.

I think many "non-disabled" posters are missing the point that Steamboat Wil made so well (I don't remember how to quote anyone. Sorry.):
"...That being said follow a special needs family when we go to the parks. EVERYTHING ELSE takes longer. It takes longer to go to the park being loaded and unloaded on a bus where everyone gives you the death stare for holding them up. It takes longer to transfer while in line. It takes longer for bathroom breaks. It takes longer to eat at a restaurant while loading or unloading. How about the people in bag check lines who have to explain their meds to security..."

Guests with disabilities effectively have less time than "normal" guests in which to visit attractions. It's fine to say "they can do Fastpass just like everyone else. They don't deserve anything extra", but in the eyes of someone with a mobility issue (for example), it's not really extra. It's adding back in the time that the disability has taken away from their day. All the time they spend on the things Steamboat mentioned, and sometimes just the extra effort they put into MOVING around the parks, can be made up by being able to avoid some of the waiting they would otherwise do at the attractions. GAC cards help to level the field for these guests. It's hard to see it that way when you don't deal with health issues on a daily basis. It LOOKS like someone is getting something you're not. But for families who do deal with these issues, it can sometimes be the only way they can have a family vacation.

I hate to keep harping on this thread and sounding harsh, but again, I still think you're missing the point. This isn't about "do they actually have a disability or not?" Its also not about attempting to limit what legitimately disabled people can do in the park. By all means, everyone is entitled to do as much in the park as everyone else.

This thread is about the actual, physical card people (disabled or otherwise) obtain and the procedures for distributing it and accepting it at attractions with Fastpass. The procedure leads to an obvious benefit to the card holder over all other guests which has led to very widespread use/abuse/scamming, which means it has an impact on all everyone's enjoyment of the parks.

Please stop being offended by this. If you have a disability (visible or otherwise) that you feel warrants the use of a card, then by all means, use it. Its Disney who needs to change the procedure, not you.

 

[steamboat wil]

I agree with you that it is being ruined by NON-disabled (and yes overwieght and lazy people that don't want to walk) If that wasn't the case, then why were there lawsuits against people that wanted to use segways. It was another way for people to be lazy. If you don't want to walk, don't go to Disney. I'm sorry that your child is disabled but you should be more angry than I am that others are abusing the system. The biggest culprits are those damn power scooters. They should not get any special attention. They are paying a little more to get benifits. It's horrible

I am angered by the abusers and have stated my concerns. Please read my past posts.

 

[Aurora1]

I think I'm a good person to speak on this topic. My 31 year old sister has severe CP, she can't walk or talk and while she hasn't been to Disney in nearly 20 years it was some of the best times of her life.

Yes our family of 4 was treated great and we rarely waited more than a few minutes for any attraction but I think it's what made the experience great for us. I have been back to Disney with my own family a few times and always waited in lines and had a great time as well.

I know people abuse this and it really ticks me off. However, I can put up with waiting in line and watch people abuse the system knowing that this service makes WDW truly magical for those who wouldn't be able to enjoy Disney as an able bodied person could.

I would rather WDW not change the system and make it less enjoyable for those who really deserve it just to prevent abuse. Those people who abuse it have to live with that.

I hate to say it, but it doesn't just make it less enjoyable for those who deserve the GAC. It makes it less enjoyable for anyone who follows the rules and doesn't try to break the system. I've been on both sides of the line before- visiting with friends who required the GAC and other times without.

 

[steamboat wil]

I hesitate to jump in to the conversation at this point, since I'm pretty sure we've all made up out minds already, but reading the last few pages tonight has made me sad (for lack of a better word).

I think many "non-disabled" posters are missing the point that Steamboat Wil made so well (I don't remember how to quote anyone. Sorry.):
"...That being said follow a special needs family when we go to the parks. EVERYTHING ELSE takes longer. It takes longer to go to the park being loaded and unloaded on a bus where everyone gives you the death stare for holding them up. It takes longer to transfer while in line. It takes longer for bathroom breaks. It takes longer to eat at a restaurant while loading or unloading. How about the people in bag check lines who have to explain their meds to security..."

Guests with disabilities effectively have less time than "normal" guests in which to visit attractions. It's fine to say "they can do Fastpass just like everyone else. They don't deserve anything extra", but in the eyes of someone with a mobility issue (for example), it's not really extra. It's adding back in the time that the disability has taken away from their day. All the time they spend on the things Steamboat mentioned, and sometimes just the extra effort they put into MOVING around the parks, can be made up by being able to avoid some of the waiting they would otherwise do at the attractions. GAC cards help to level the field for these guests. It's hard to see it that way when you don't deal with health issues on a daily basis. It LOOKS like someone is getting something you're not. But for families who do deal with these issues, it can sometimes be the only way they can have a family vacation.

Does it go "above and beyond" what the ADA requires Disney to provide? Sure. That's what Disney is famous for - those little touches of "above and beyond" are what brought most of us here in the first place. Now they have to walk a fine, ever changing line between providing a very significant service to one segment of their guests without alienating another.

On a personal note, I wish some of us would please remember this is a very personal topic for many people, and these discussions will be far more meanigful if the conversation doesn't get nasty. Put yourself in the shoes of whoever's on "the other side".

Edited because Dasnowz said it before me AND better. Dang.

Thank you very much. It is comforting to see at least one person " gets it ". God bless you, even if your a nonbeliever I appreciate your compassion. BTW you made me tear up.

 

[steamboat wil]

Ok, then where exactly did I say that some disabilities deserve more than others? Terminally ill children? Different story. These children also obtain their pass through a pre-arrangement with Give Kids the World or Make a Wish.Right, but the thing is, Disney has complied with the ADA requirements even without the guest assistance cards at all! The cards are merely provided as a customer service thing. The reasoning behind the "use alternate entrance" card, the card most GAC holders are issued, AKA the "unlimited Fastpass line use" card, is "I can't wait in long lines." Well, that's fine, but there are ways to accommodate that without making it both instant and unlimited.

once again this is not an "unlimited fastpass line use". You win dude, you will never see what a disabled person has to endure when vacationing (yet alone to WDW). I have been to WDW yearly, and the GAC is one of the things that keep us returning. However, you can rest easy knowing we will not be traveling to the Florida property this year. More or less because of the upkeep not because of rude guests who feel disabled bodies should enjoy even less than they already do. I really hope your family never has to deal with what mine does. BTW how was the Swiss Family Treehouse or Tom Sawyer's Island because we will NEVER experience this as a family. Fairness you speak of.......tell me about it!!!!!!!!!


3elove!!!

 

[Dasnowz]

This thread is about the actual, physical card people (disabled or otherwise) obtain and the procedures for distributing it and accepting it at attractions with Fastpass. The procedure leads to an obvious benefit to the card holder over all other guests which has led to very widespread use/abuse/scamming, which means it has an impact on all everyone's enjoyment of the parks.

Please stop being offended by this. If you have a disability (visible or otherwise) that you feel warrants the use of a card, then by all means, use it. Its Disney who needs to change the procedure, not you.

I am sorry but this statement is offensive. We all know there is abuse, You keep saying there is a benefit to having the card. It has been explained over and over < insert beating a dead horse here> that for the truly disabled there is no benefit. It simply allows those needing extra services a chance to enjoy some of the park. for those who really need it they may only get to do a few rides and then are done. It has been told over and over the time involved going around the park, waiting at alternate entrances, being able to get on and off a ride, all this takes extra time. There are those who will always abuse the system. To me, I am sorry to say, you come across as sour grapes that someone has something you do not. You do not seem to be a compassionate person even though you very well may be in real life. I would not take this away from those who need it and I have no issue with stating that fact.

How does this impact your park enjoyment? because the lines a a bit longer?
How about someone that needs a ride to stop for a few minutes while they transfer? that stops your ride. should we do away with that too?
how about lines in bathrooms? should we do away with handicap ones to put in more stalls?
hotel you want booked? take out the ones designated for disabled and open them to everyone?
can't find parking? take away their parking too or move them to the back of the lots since they can use the tram like everyone else?

Like I said I have seen blatant abuse. I have also seen the need for it as well. There is no solution. I therefore will not be revisiting this topic since there is no solution that will appease everyone at this time. There are very distinct opinions on this and nothing is going to sway anyone either way. I just wish that this could stay on topic of abuse and not people wanting to take assistance from those who truly need it. And I feel that this is where this is heading. Its turning into an all or nothing type of argument that will never be resolved.

 

[steamboat wil]

Sorry if I sound harsh in my posts but I will advocate for my son until the day I die. All of you would do the same. I may have issues with disney's upkeep and overall "freshness" of the Florida property but I am pleased with the way they handle disabled persons attending their parks. Hmmmm, maybe disabled citisens feel disney does such a good job they continue to visit their parks in outstanding numbers. I know the GAC is abused but being in this type of community word spreads fast as to who is more accomodating than others. just a thought.


3elove!!!

 

[steamboat wil]

I know there is wide spread abuse. I have witnessed teenagers with a wheelchair trying to decide who was going to sit in it at the next ride.

but let me ask this... there are many disabilities that you cannot see. What do we do for them? That is the problem Disney faces.

How about a veteran with severe PTSD that cannot handle crowds or someone being in their personal space. They simply want to enjoy some of the quieter rides but all the kids kind of freak them out. So a GAC allows them to do a few rides and they leave early in the day. They have never seen a parade nor are they ever there for fireworks because of crowds. They left with the GAC in hand and their family stayed the afternoon.

How about someone with MS that can walk but heat can cause a flair up and send them bedridden for the next few weeks so they get a card to enjoy 3 or 4 hours in the park. They do as many rides as possible in the short time of the morning. But heat is the main factor and avoided.

How about someone with severe allergies/asthma that has kids who enjoy the parks and wants to be with their family? Perfumes and smells can trigger reactions/attacks so they get a GAC and use alternate entrances so they can ride with their families.

Or how about someone with a neurological condition that causes their foot to drop and leg to swell to uncomfortable size. The leg is painful to touch or be bumped. They walk with a cane but are not steady. They are unable to walk up stairs so they use an alternate entrance. They don't need a wheel chair but just move slow.

I have seen these scenarios and then some. What are the solutions? This is why Disney is not making changes. There is no simple solution. Abuse is there. How to be fair is the problem.

Also this has been said but here it is again Alternate entrance does not mean front of the line. It means that when there is room a CM lets you in. Sometimes you use the FP line but you still wait. Sometimes the alternate entrance has 15 people before you and you still wait 45 min. Some rides only let a few GAC groups on at a time. You wait until one group gets off before they load another group. Sometimes there may not be a wait and you do get on fast.

There is no hard and fast solution. The abuse is a problem and needs to be addressed. But how? I have no idea. Honestly. We have discussed this and no one I know can come up with a fair alternative.

It seems that the abuse comes with ECV's and teens more then anything.

We do need to stop judging everyone though and realize that we don't always know someone's situation. Disney will one day either come up with a solution or stop the program. Maybe cut the amount of ECV's available in half would stop the abuse. Or raise the cost so those wanting to scam realize the cost isn't worth it.

Thank you so much.

 

[STGRhost]

But I never even mentioned the bus situation! And again, its not about ... nevermind, forget it.

I hate to keep harping on this thread and sounding harsh, but again, I still think you're missing the point. This isn't about "do they actually have a disability or not?" Its also not about attempting to limit what legitimately disabled people can do in the park. By all means, everyone is entitled to do as much in the park as everyone else.

This thread is about the actual, physical card people (disabled or otherwise) obtain and the procedures for distributing it and accepting it at attractions with Fastpass. The procedure leads to an obvious benefit to the card holder over all other guests which has led to very widespread use/abuse/scamming, which means it has an impact on all everyone's enjoyment of the parks.

Please stop being offended by this. If you have a disability (visible or otherwise) that you feel warrants the use of a card, then by all means, use it. Its Disney who needs to change the procedure, not you.

The problem with that thinking is that guests with disabilities, visible or not, really do take much longer to do all the same things that "everyone else" is doing. Traveling to and from parks, in between attractions, getting on and off rides, eating, using restrooms... And on having to stop for melt downs or to rest or cool off. (Some of which can mean ending a day hours earlier than planned, or leaving to return to a resort and then hoping to be able to go back later in the day.) This physical card that they are given is the key to being able to do what "everyone else" does, with the abbreviated amount of time they are left with to do it in. That's the part that gets everyone so upset. You see people (possibly looking entirely able-bodied) "cutting" you in line, and getting something you don't get. You DON'T see the struggle it's been just getting to the park, to the attraction, out of the heat, to the bathroom in time, having to sit on the bench because your legs need to rest... The ADA trys to guarantee a level playing field. The GAC card tries to "plus" this idea by giving guests with disabilities some of thier lost time back to be able to experience the parks just like "everybody else".

It becomes offensive because I (or anyone else) should not have to validate my need to use any of the services offered by the Guest Assistance Program to you (or any other guests). I simply have to go through whatever procedure Disney has in place in order to distribute these cards. Right now, there are a lot of people who have figured out how to abuse this system. But we have to remember that posters on sites like this are a lot closer to these subjects than the average day guest. I think the problem, though it does exists, is a lot less widespread than some of us want to believe. I think the fact that Disney continues to tweak but still offer this program tells me that it still believe the benefits it is providing to its special needs guests outweigh whatever negative impact is has on the others.

And, seriously, has anyone on this thread come up with a better idea? A legitimate, fair and lawful solution to deciding who has a "true need", where to draw the line, who draws it, how are others denied these services, what services are offered, how they're implemented, who pays for and facilitates the retraining for 30,000 or so Cast Members, etc.?

 

[rct247]

Of all of the GAC symbols, the "alternate entrance" (the 2 arrows) are the worst offenders. It provides assistance to such a broad range of "needs" to the point that the fakers all know what to say to receive this stamp. I think the stamps and rules need to be altered a bit to still provide the same assistance, but it is changed up a bit that will throw off the fakers.

These symbols work fine and should stay.
- Wheelchair Accessible Queue/Entrance
- Stroller Serving as a Wheelchair
- Shaded Queue Needed
- Front Row Seating Needed
- Green Light

The alternate entrance should be renamed "alternate wait". Attractions should be able to give guests a special Fastpass of sorts that could be given instantly but require the guest to return based on the current wait time. This allows those who can't be in a confined crowded line environment to occupy their time with something else while still waiting to be equal. The guest can choose how to occupy their time whether it is shopping, another attraction, a toy/video game, snack, or something like a KidCOT activity station. Here's an example. Let's say a family visits Fantasyland. They want to ride Peter Pan's Flights, so they are given a card with the current wait for them to come back. Meanwhile, Phillharmagic has a low wait so they can experience that. Then they try Small World but it has a long wait, so they get another card. Mermaid is also long so they get another card, eventually they just have lots of cards, but they can now spend the time they have to wait by grabbing a snack, meeting a character, visit an activity station, play Sorcerer's of Magic Kingdom, or play with a toy that was brought along. It might be a bit annoying and hard to explain to child that may not comprehend the idea of waiting, but how does it work outside of Disney with lines and waiting?

In addition, GAC would need to have their rules slightly revised. 6 people is the limit. Period. Cast members will not be able to issue for 7 (it is done so often). The purpose of the card is to allow the guest in need to still be accompanied by members of their party. Due to operational consideration, 5 companions should always be the limit and should be followed EXTREMELY strict. After all, you can simply grab Fastpasses if you want all 9 in your group to ride or you can use the card twice to trade off riders so everyone gets a chance similar to how a Child Swap works. Passes should only be valid for one day. As annoying as it is to have to revisit Guests Services every day of your visit, this will prevent locals especially from getting one that covers a few months at a time. The card should require either photo id, biometrics, or something to that nature to prevent cousin Sally from using little Megans GAC card acting as Megan. In addition, all shows shouldn't/wouldn't accommodate use the alternative entrance/wait as typically the waits for these attractions for the next show load anyways. Alternative waits will also be asked to use the regular stand by lines if the wait is 15-20 minutes or less as this is typically the Fastpass "guaranteed max wait" anyways. Finally, GACs should be equipped with RFIDs to be read by computers to avoid any written counterfeits or altered handwritten ones. The RFIDs would also keep track of how the GACs are being used, how often, and in the case where one is being repeated lets say more than 3 times in a 30 minute time frame may force the guest to kindly choose another attraction to experience to balance their day up rather than keep riding Space Mountain or Toy Story Midway Mania over an over again.

I honestly feel like these minor changes would still offer the same assistance to those who need it, but put in a variety of measures to prevent abuse or at least make it more inconvenient for those wanting to abuse the system. Thoughts?

 

[STGRhost]

Of all of the GAC symbols, the "alternate entrance" (the 2 arrows) are the worst offenders. It provides assistance to such a broad range of "needs" to the point that the fakers all know what to say to receive this stamp. I think the stamps and rules need to be altered a bit to still provide the same assistance, but it is changed up a bit that will throw off the fakers.

These symbols work fine and should stay.
- Wheelchair Accessible Queue/Entrance
- Stroller Serving as a Wheelchair
- Shaded Queue Needed
- Front Row Seating Needed
- Green Light

The alternate entrance should be renamed "alternate wait". Attractions should be able to give guests a special Fastpass of sorts that could be given instantly but require the guest to return based on the current wait time. This allows those who can't be in a confined crowded line environment to occupy their time with something else while still waiting to be equal. The guest can choose how to occupy their time whether it is shopping, another attraction, a toy/video game, snack, or something like a KidCOT activity station. Here's an example. Let's say a family visits Fantasyland. They want to ride Peter Pan's Flights, so they are given a card with the current wait for them to come back. Meanwhile, Phillharmagic has a low wait so they can experience that. Then they try Small World but it has a long wait, so they get another card. Mermaid is also long so they get another card, eventually they just have lots of cards, but they can now spend the time they have to wait by grabbing a snack, meeting a character, visit an activity station, play Sorcerer's of Magic Kingdom, or play with a toy that was brought along. It might be a bit annoying and hard to explain to child that may not comprehend the idea of waiting, but how does it work outside of Disney with lines and waiting?

In addition, GAC would need to have their rules slightly revised. 6 people is the limit. Period. Cast members will not be able to issue for 7 (it is done so often). The purpose of the card is to allow the guest in need to still be accompanied by members of their party. Due to operational consideration, 5 companions should always be the limit and should be followed EXTREMELY strict. After all, you can simply grab Fastpasses if you want all 9 in your group to ride or you can use the card twice to trade off riders so everyone gets a chance similar to how a Child Swap works. Passes should only be valid for one day. As annoying as it is to have to revisit Guests Services every day of your visit, this will prevent locals especially from getting one that covers a few months at a time. The card should require either photo id, biometrics, or something to that nature to prevent cousin Sally from using little Megans GAC card acting as Megan. In addition, all shows should wouldn't accommodate use the alternative entrance/wait as typically the waits for these attractions for the next show load anyways. Alternative waits will also be asked to use the regular stand by lines if the wait is 15-20 minutes or less as this is typically the Fastpass "guaranteed max wait" anyways. Finally, GACs should be equipped with RFIDs to be read by computers to avoid any written counterfeits or altered handwritten ones. The RFIDs would also keep track of how the GACs are being used, how often, and in the case where one is being repeated lets say more than 3 times in a 30 minute time frame may force the guest to kindly choose another attraction to experience to balance their day up rather than keep riding Space Mountain or Toy Story Midway Mania over an over again.

I honestly feel like these minor changes would still offer the same assistance to those who need it, but put in a variety of measures to prevent abuse or at least make it more inconvenient for those wanting to abuse the system. Thoughts?

I feel like this seems fairly reasonable. Having seen both sides (as a former GR CM who dealt with many, many GAC cards) and as someone now living with MS, feel like these changes would solve a good number of the issues that keep coming up.

For example, with MS I struggle daily with cognitive issues, mobility and gait issues, fatigue, etc.. You know, normal stuff. As someone mentioned upthread, the heat and humidity I deal with when I go back to visit wreaks havoc on my nervous system.

I just lost a whole paragraph, but the short idea is this: I can either suck it up and go through the parks like everyone else, growing increasingly bone-tired (I once curled up on the floor of the Tune In Lounge and fell asleep while my friends had a drink). My legs will begin to either tighten and cramp up (spasticity) or my feet will "drop", which can lead to stumbling. I will probably be to tired to get to every attraction I want to go to, and possibly just leave early all together. The next day, if I'm able to get moving at all, I'm going to be moving that much slower before we even get anywhere...

OR I can ask for a GAC card. I tell them what issues/symptoms I have and they invariably give me an Alternate Entry stamp for my party of (usually) 3. I can then hit as many attractions as I'm able to before the heat really kicks in, then leave the park and go to the resort to nap (yes, like a toddler). The nap -usually- allows me to cool off and regain the ability to move easily, And I can try to go back out, either to another resort, a dinner show, etc. The card has made it so I don't miss nearly as much as I would have due to my health issues. So, the Alternate Wait pass (or whatever we'd want it changed to) enables me to be able to do most of the attractions I'd like to do before "naptime" and still come back and get some other fun in later. All without overextending myself and getting sick or going to the hospital.

And I consider myself lucky. My symptoms, thought bothersome and annoying, especially day to day, are really not severe all of the time. I do no need to use any braces, canes, or wheelchairs (yet). I very much fall into the "getting scowled at becase 'WELL, SHE certainly doesn't LOOK sick!'" Category. (In fact, a friend that sometimes goes with will refuse to use it with me because he hates feeling like we're doing something wrong. Even though he's wittnessed how much better the whole trip goes when I can take a break out of the heat. ) Anyway, i'm still pretty lucky in that I DON'T have to try to navigate the parks in a wheelchair, or get into a restroom stall or behind a seat at a table. It's amazing when you talk to people traveling with these issues who are happy with even the smallest provisions they're offered. I think it would be terrible to punish these people just because other people are working the system.

 

[Dasnowz]

just a quick question to your thinking. on the abuse of riding the same ride over and over. what if you are in HS and have a disabled child who only likes Toy story. The child can only do that ride and none of the others. No tot no roller coaster no star tours none of those. here is the scenario you have 2 other kids. you are going to be in the park for a few hours. the one child asks to do toy story and you agree to limit it to 4 times while one parent goes off with the other kids. under this they would not be able to get the ride times in. And yes if you go first thing in the morning its possible to ride TOT and RRRC in less then one hour and if you got fast passes then go over to star tours. the plan is after this as a family to go see some shows and other attractions. so is denying the one child a chance to enjoy "doing" as many rides as the siblings who can go do 3 or 4 others fair?

The other part comes back to the examples I listed earlier. Some illness cannot tolerate long times in the heat. How would offering a chance to come back in 3 hours to ride test track be beneficial to a guest that cannot be in the heat for any period of time? if it took someone 45 minutes to walk across the park just to get there when it takes everyone else 10 min then you tell the person to return in x amount of time they will loose all hope. some people do a loop around the park then leave for the day.

This is the dilemma facing Disney. How do you make it fair for everyone ? How to stop abuse?

I agree with the card limited being enforced but what large groups then do is someone else gets one and they still all go in.

Being good for one day would add large stress on city hall. Thats why it went to length of stay or long term for annual pass holders.

I think once everyone is on RFId then it could be embedded in the bracelet so there would be no card to pass around. This would eliminate suzy using it when its actually sallys.

And just putting this out here but a lot of times parents take care of errands and such in real life while the child is in school or has the other parent/ partner/ care giver watch the child. Thus eliminating the issue of dealing with long lines in real life.

The real problem is the abuse. It really is. I don't think anyone really wants the truly disabled to suffer anymore then they already do on a daily basis. I think you have some good ideas but I think others punish the disabled in an effort to stop abuse.

 

[MarkTwain]

Of all of the GAC symbols, the "alternate entrance" (the 2 arrows) are the worst offenders. It provides assistance to such a broad range of "needs" to the point that the fakers all know what to say to receive this stamp. I think the stamps and rules need to be altered a bit to still provide the same assistance, but it is changed up a bit that will throw off the fakers.

These symbols work fine and should stay.
- Wheelchair Accessible Queue/Entrance
- Stroller Serving as a Wheelchair
- Shaded Queue Needed
- Front Row Seating Needed
- Green Light

The alternate entrance should be renamed "alternate wait". Attractions should be able to give guests a special Fastpass of sorts that could be given instantly but require the guest to return based on the current wait time. This allows those who can't be in a confined crowded line environment to occupy their time with something else while still waiting to be equal. The guest can choose how to occupy their time whether it is shopping, another attraction, a toy/video game, snack, or something like a KidCOT activity station. Here's an example. Let's say a family visits Fantasyland. They want to ride Peter Pan's Flights, so they are given a card with the current wait for them to come back. Meanwhile, Phillharmagic has a low wait so they can experience that. Then they try Small World but it has a long wait, so they get another card. Mermaid is also long so they get another card, eventually they just have lots of cards, but they can now spend the time they have to wait by grabbing a snack, meeting a character, visit an activity station, play Sorcerer's of Magic Kingdom, or play with a toy that was brought along. It might be a bit annoying and hard to explain to child that may not comprehend the idea of waiting, but how does it work outside of Disney with lines and waiting?

In addition, GAC would need to have their rules slightly revised. 6 people is the limit. Period. Cast members will not be able to issue for 7 (it is done so often). The purpose of the card is to allow the guest in need to still be accompanied by members of their party. Due to operational consideration, 5 companions should always be the limit and should be followed EXTREMELY strict. After all, you can simply grab Fastpasses if you want all 9 in your group to ride or you can use the card twice to trade off riders so everyone gets a chance similar to how a Child Swap works. Passes should only be valid for one day. As annoying as it is to have to revisit Guests Services every day of your visit, this will prevent locals especially from getting one that covers a few months at a time. The card should require either photo id, biometrics, or something to that nature to prevent cousin Sally from using little Megans GAC card acting as Megan. In addition, all shows shouldn't/wouldn't accommodate use the alternative entrance/wait as typically the waits for these attractions for the next show load anyways. Alternative waits will also be asked to use the regular stand by lines if the wait is 15-20 minutes or less as this is typically the Fastpass "guaranteed max wait" anyways. Finally, GACs should be equipped with RFIDs to be read by computers to avoid any written counterfeits or altered handwritten ones. The RFIDs would also keep track of how the GACs are being used, how often, and in the case where one is being repeated lets say more than 3 times in a 30 minute time frame may force the guest to kindly choose another attraction to experience to balance their day up rather than keep riding Space Mountain or Toy Story Midway Mania over an over again.

I honestly feel like these minor changes would still offer the same assistance to those who need it, but put in a variety of measures to prevent abuse or at least make it more inconvenient for those wanting to abuse the system. Thoughts?

This would work great. I offered a similar suggestion for a standby equivalent "return time" above, and I think with some of the details you mentioned there would be a fair balance between accommodation and abuse prevention.

 

[Tom Morrow]

once again this is not an "unlimited fastpass line use".

Except that IT FUNCTIONS EXACTLY LIKE AN UNLIMITED FASTPASS WHICH IS WHY A STAGGERING NUMBER OF WDW VISITORS HAVE ONE!

You win dude, you will never see what a disabled person has to endure when vacationing (yet alone to WDW). I have been to WDW yearly, and the GAC is one of the things that keep us returning. However, you can rest easy knowing we will not be traveling to the Florida property this year. More or less because of the upkeep not because of rude guests who feel disabled bodies should enjoy even less than they already do. I really hope your family never has to deal with what mine does.

You're turning a thread discussing a legitimate problem into "pity us and our disabilities". It's not about vouching for your disability, its not about Disney deciding who deserves disability services and who doesn't... its about developing a new fair system that can still give disabled guests both equal opportunity to experience attractions as everyone else and eliminate the benefit that makes said staggering amounts of people seek to obtain and abuse the cards.

The problem with that thinking is that guests with disabilities, visible or not, really do take much longer to do all the same things that "everyone else" is doing. Traveling to and from parks, in between attractions, getting on and off rides, eating, using restrooms... And on having to stop for melt downs or to rest or cool off. (Some of which can mean ending a day hours earlier than planned, or leaving to return to a resort and then hoping to be able to go back later in the day.) This physical card that they are given is the key to being able to do what "everyone else" does, with the abbreviated amount of time they are left with to do it in. That's the part that gets everyone so upset. You see people (possibly looking entirely able-bodied) "cutting" you in line, and getting something you don't get. You DON'T see the struggle it's been just getting to the park, to the attraction, out of the heat, to the bathroom in time, having to sit on the bench because your legs need to rest... The ADA trys to guarantee a level playing field. The GAC card tries to "plus" this idea by giving guests with disabilities some of thier lost time back to be able to experience the parks just like "everybody else".

Yes, I GET all of that. And that would be absolutely fine if ONLY the very miniscule number of parties that actually need that level of assistance were using these cards. But, again - I don't think you are realizing the scope of the abuse. Earlier in this thread, an actual Guest Relations CM vouched that 400-500 "alternate entrance" cards are given out PER DAY, at Magic Kingdom alone!

It becomes offensive because I (or anyone else) should not have to validate my need to use any of the services offered by the Guest Assistance Program to you (or any other guests). I simply have to go through whatever procedure Disney has in place in order to distribute these cards. Right now, there are a lot of people who have figured out how to abuse this system. But we have to remember that posters on sites like this are a lot closer to these subjects than the average day guest. I think the problem, though it does exists, is a lot less widespread than some of us want to believe. I think the fact that Disney continues to tweak but still offer this program tells me that it still believe the benefits it is providing to its special needs guests outweigh whatever negative impact is has on the others.

And nobody is asking you to justify your use because this isn't about "who is actually disabled and who is not"...

And, seriously, has anyone on this thread come up with a better idea? A legitimate, fair and lawful solution to deciding who has a "true need", where to draw the line, who draws it, how are others denied these services, what services are offered, how they're implemented, who pays for and facilitates the retraining for 30,000 or so Cast Members, etc.?

Yes, they have given better solutions, multiple times in this thread, for instance, doing SAME THING EVERY OTHER THEME PARK DOES - and permitting disabled guests who can't wait in lines to enter after a designated time has passed based on that attraction's current wait time. Or even just removing either "instant" OR "unlimited" from the equation. OR Fastpass+ and NextGen technology can eliminate the cards all together and allow disabled parties to reserve their ride times like everyone else.

And again, for reiteration, this discussion was never about deciding who has a "true need", and remember that Disney has ALREADY done their part 100% by making the parks ADA compliant.

 

[Epcot '92]

Of all of the GAC symbols, the "alternate entrance" (the 2 arrows) are the worst offenders. It provides assistance to such a broad range of "needs" to the point that the fakers all know what to say to receive this stamp. I think the stamps and rules need to be altered a bit to still provide the same assistance, but it is changed up a bit that will throw off the fakers.

These symbols work fine and should stay.
- Wheelchair Accessible Queue/Entrance
- Stroller Serving as a Wheelchair
- Shaded Queue Needed
- Front Row Seating Needed
- Green Light

The alternate entrance should be renamed "alternate wait". Attractions should be able to give guests a special Fastpass of sorts that could be given instantly but require the guest to return based on the current wait time. This allows those who can't be in a confined crowded line environment to occupy their time with something else while still waiting to be equal. The guest can choose how to occupy their time whether it is shopping, another attraction, a toy/video game, snack, or something like a KidCOT activity station. Here's an example. Let's say a family visits Fantasyland. They want to ride Peter Pan's Flights, so they are given a card with the current wait for them to come back. Meanwhile, Phillharmagic has a low wait so they can experience that. Then they try Small World but it has a long wait, so they get another card. Mermaid is also long so they get another card, eventually they just have lots of cards, but they can now spend the time they have to wait by grabbing a snack, meeting a character, visit an activity station, play Sorcerer's of Magic Kingdom, or play with a toy that was brought along. It might be a bit annoying and hard to explain to child that may not comprehend the idea of waiting, but how does it work outside of Disney with lines and waiting?

In addition, GAC would need to have their rules slightly revised. 6 people is the limit. Period. Cast members will not be able to issue for 7 (it is done so often). The purpose of the card is to allow the guest in need to still be accompanied by members of their party. Due to operational consideration, 5 companions should always be the limit and should be followed EXTREMELY strict. After all, you can simply grab Fastpasses if you want all 9 in your group to ride or you can use the card twice to trade off riders so everyone gets a chance similar to how a Child Swap works. Passes should only be valid for one day. As annoying as it is to have to revisit Guests Services every day of your visit, this will prevent locals especially from getting one that covers a few months at a time. The card should require either photo id, biometrics, or something to that nature to prevent cousin Sally from using little Megans GAC card acting as Megan. In addition, all shows shouldn't/wouldn't accommodate use the alternative entrance/wait as typically the waits for these attractions for the next show load anyways. Alternative waits will also be asked to use the regular stand by lines if the wait is 15-20 minutes or less as this is typically the Fastpass "guaranteed max wait" anyways. Finally, GACs should be equipped with RFIDs to be read by computers to avoid any written counterfeits or altered handwritten ones. The RFIDs would also keep track of how the GACs are being used, how often, and in the case where one is being repeated lets say more than 3 times in a 30 minute time frame may force the guest to kindly choose another attraction to experience to balance their day up rather than keep riding Space Mountain or Toy Story Midway Mania over an over again.

I honestly feel like these minor changes would still offer the same assistance to those who need it, but put in a variety of measures to prevent abuse or at least make it more inconvenient for those wanting to abuse the system. Thoughts?

+1

Excellent. Being able to restrict the Alternate Entrance to this would cause everything to go swimingly. With some testing this could bid well. Able to cut down on abuse, while still providing excellence. Granted, it wont be immediate access, so there will be some education for the Guests from Cast Members who were used to the old system.

But, I do want to say this... GACs help the whole family, not just who its for.

Example family of 4: Dad, Mom, 2 kids. One of the kids has a disability that warrants a GAC. The child cannot ride ToT due to the nature of the attraction. But its the Dad's and other Kid's favorite. Should they use the GAC?

Absolutely. It gets their family back together, quicker; just enough time to see the first Fantasmic.

The GAC is Disney. And as much as it is loathed (By ops and other guests)... it helps the overall experience. MOst guest dont even Notice it, or just assume its Fastpass anyways. Those who do wonder? 96% of the time they say, "Thats nice that Disney does that, glad we dont have to worry about that" not " WELL THATS UNFAIR! IM GONNA GET MY OWN UNLIMITED FASTPASS!"