Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[misterID]

I don't think they are mad about handicapped people but the people who pretend to be handicapped and take advantage of the system. If only handicapped people used the system there would be no issues.

That's not what I mean, and I've seen their arguments before, I'm talking about the people here who simply don't like wating in line and don't want to see someone else be able to cut in front of them, no matter what medical condition they have. Do people fake it? Sure. There's abuse to every system, but I've never met a group of people with such an incredible ability to diagnose people, from a glance, and know if they're faking or just "fat." Is it really that big of a deal?

Whether it be a bench or a seat on the monorail, no matter how tired and sore I am, I always give up my seat to a lady or someone who looks like they need it. There's not a whole lot of difference here.

I have a much bigger problem with stupid healthy people at Disney, if we can get rid of them, that would be fantastic. I swear, from my first trip in 1980 (yeah, I was a baby, but it still counts!) I haven't seen the amount of fakers that people here claim to see for it to be such an epidemic. It's amazing. They must be tap dancing to their wheelchairs in droves.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Regarding my last post, I guess I spoke too soon.

Like I said no disabled person would be so petty or stupid to expect that to happen, you are the one who keeps harping on about fair and equal, it seems you only want equality one way . READ WHAT YOU WROTE I underlined it for you.

I don't think you've read the thread or are on the same page with what we are talking about here. The issue is NOT "they don't look disabled so they are probably scamming." The issue with the GAC cards is that they DO provide a very obvious, gratuitous benefit to the holder and their party. Disabled or not, GAC holders are being treated BETTER than everyone else because they have a pass that gives them instant and unlimited use of any Fastpass line. Again, equal for everyone means everyone gets the same opportunity at riding an attraction.

Also, the issue is not "that party gets to skip the line, not fair." If it were only a few families, it wouldn't even matter. But as stated multiple times in this thread, GACs now amount to at least 1/3rd of everyone using Fastpass lines.

Remove the advantage, make it an equal process, and nobody will scam it. Essentially every other park in the world handles this the fair, equal way (return at a time based on the current wait time), and nobody even questions it. Its only because this is Disney, known for not having a backbone when it comes to people scamming and breaking the rules, and Disney guests, known for expecting the world on a silver platter and exploiting Disney's customer service, that this is even being questioned by anyone.

And this goes for everyone else reading the thread: it is NOT meant to attack you, it is not about questioning your disability or your use of the card, it is about the process of obtaining the cards and how they are utilized at attractions.

 

[misterID]

It's a ride at a theme park. We're talking about waiting in line. No one is getting treated better than everyone else, it's actually leveling it out, making it easier on people who need a little help. No one is taking anything away from you. If they want to try and stop the abuse, fine. But seriously, I'm reading people being upset that handicapped people are getting on the bus before them? And wanting to end the service or "advantage" to make it more convienent for them? Unbelievable.


For the record, I'm not disabled. I don't use that card. I'm not fat. I don't use a scooter in the park. It's called being a little understanding.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Please explain how getting to ride [insert popular ride] nearly instantly, as much as you want, while everyone else either has to wait an hour in the standby line or obtain one fastpass good for one ride some time later is both not being treated better and "leveling it out"?

Again, the problem is widespread enough that it inflates both the standby AND fastpass wait time for everyone, so yes, it is taking away from everyone else by increasing their wait times. Everyone paid for admission. Everyone deserves the exact same opportunity to experience the same number of attractions.

 

[misterID]

Widespread problem? Have you surveyed all of these people? I mean, a lot of these people you're talking about are dealing with things you and I can't possibly understand. Putting them at the front of the line or getting them on the bus first isn't asking a whole lot and it's only inconvienence it's costing you. Most of these people can't even ride the most popular attractions. You want to stop fraud, take it up with Disney. I'll support you. Ending a program to help out the disabled because it's inconvienent for you is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yes, widespread problem. Read the thread pls.

 

[misterID]

Yes, I've read it...

I'm glad this thread is back, and I'm glad Disney is actively counting the number of people using the cards now (it has reached the point of something like 1/3rd to 1/2 of everyone using the Fastpass line at any given time). On many occasions I have witnessed a large party (say, 15 people) approach a Fastpass queue entrance and whip out THREE cards at once. ("You say its good for a maximum of six people? well screw you Disney, I'll just get two more!") All of this wouldn't even be a big deal if it didn't extend the wait times of everyone who is playing fair. But it does... significantly.

The problem is that with little to no effort, anyone (with no guilt or conscience) can obtain these cards and completely abuse them... and they do. So my question for everyone who comes in to post to justify their own personal use of the card:

With the exception of Make a Wish/Give kids the world and other terminally ill kids, do you deserve INSTANT and UNLIMITED use of the Fastpass queue simply for having a disability?

The answer, is no, you do not. Fair accommodations can be made that treat you and your party as equal to everyone else and ensure your whole party gets to experience the attraction. Because, remember, the point of the ADA is FAIR and EQUAL treatment, not special privileges.

This is all about YOU. And your inconvenience.It's an over reaction on your part. Is it abused? yeah, of course. But that doesn't seem to be your problem with it. It's not up to YOU to determine which disability deserves to be addressed and what kind of help people should get. You want to crack down on fraud, go for it. But this is not as drastic as you're painting it and your "observations" are not scientific data.

 

[cmeller]

Sorry but no, it's not flawed at all. If a person can't transfer onto a ride vehicle, then that person can not be safely secured onto that vehicle, and riding would put that person in a dangerous situation. Its reasonable to not allow someone to ride under these circumstances.

Or, by your logic, we should change Tower of Terror so that it does not drop, so people can safely ride in wheelchairs without having to transfer? By YOUR flawed logic, every single thing that requires mobility would have to be outlawed.

Simply being disabled does not mean you deserve INSTANT and UNLIMITED use of the Fastpass system. It means you should have the same chances of riding as everyone else.

When my sister with severe CP went with our family to Disney nearly 20 years ago she was able to go on all the rides because my Dad and I would physically carry her onto e ride. Yes we risk having to carry her if something would go wrong but it's worth thr Risk seeing her enjoy being able to experience attractions like everyone else.

 

[steamboat wil]

I still don't understand where the "instant fast pass" for everything comes from. Some rides may have that but not all, and for the record I would gladly stand in any line if it meant my son could without assistance. Speaking of the advantage of being in a fast pass line I admit it does save some time. That being said follow a special needs family when we go to the parks. EVERYTHING ELSE takes longer. It takes longer to go to the park being loaded and unloaded on a bus where everyone gives you the death stare for holding them up. It takes longer to transfer while in line. It takes longer for bathroom breaks. It takes longer to eat at a restaurant while loading or unloading. How about the people in bag check lines who have to explain their meds to security. I think it should be a system to show proof of your disability but under HIPPA regs that won't happen. The system is flawed and unfortunately not much can be done to change it. Short story: A man in standby WTP berated me and my family for having a big kid in a stroller (convaid child's wheelchair). It was a colder day so my sons afo braces couldn't be seen under his jeans. He said I was a bad parent and using my kid to jump lines and teaching him how to work the system. I snapped and told him I would gladly trade places with him if his children wanted to take on the conditions my son has. His wife slapped him HARD when she saw my wife bust out the walker so he can transfer to the ride. I smiled ear to ear, justice was served and everybody who could hear the incident go down looked at him like he was lower than dirt. Back on topic the GAC card still needs to be issued at Disney, guest services just need to monitor who they give it to a little better.

 

[Goofnut1980]

Please explain how getting to ride [insert popular ride] nearly instantly, as much as you want, while everyone else either has to wait an hour in the standby line or obtain one fastpass good for one ride some time later is both not being treated better and "leveling it out"?

Again, the problem is widespread enough that it inflates both the standby AND fastpass wait time for everyone, so yes, it is taking away from everyone else by increasing their wait times. Everyone paid for admission. Everyone deserves the exact same opportunity to experience the same number of attractions.

Touche! I agree with you 100%... my step dad has 20% lung function and can not ride all of the rides if they jerk around too much. He is clearly disabled, after serving over 30 years in our military and being in the wrong place at the wrong time with some fallout of some sort back in the 60s which caused his COPD. But he refuses to get a GAC because he feels because he is not able to ride everything it's not something anyone else needs to "use" even if he cannot.

I know I will get grilled for this next comment, but I find it funny reading some of these posts and people say, well I need the card because I have a bad back and can't stand in one place for a period of time... UH... And riding a rollercoaster is good for your back??? or I have a disabled child and he/she doesn't do well with crowds or standing in one place for a while.. How is this fair to your child that can not understand why you are putting them in this situation??? Should you really be at the busiest place on earth? I don't mean to offend anyone.. but do you really hear what is coming out of your mouths?

And if this GAC continues, maybe it should be on your park ticket which is tied to your admission. Make it nextgen and allow the CM to swipe your admission/gac ticket which is printed with GAC, but only allows you to use it once for each attraction during your stay. Beyond that.. Get FASTPASS+ to skip the line.

 

[RSoxNo1]

So whats your view on the people that cant transfer on rides such as SPLASH HM RNRC, TOT and numerous others EQUAL would mean you cant ride either, but no disabled person would be that petty to expect that, your whole argument is so flawed its pathetic.

As a user of GAC for my brother (autism), I think that certain restrictions should probably be placed on it's usage. They cap it at 6 people per attraction, which is more than reasonable. I would also say that usage could probably be limited to once per day, per attraction (or at least have restrictions place on some attractions). I recognize that people abuse it, it's a problem but unfortunately it's a problem without an obvious resolution (at least not one that I've heard).

 

[RSoxNo1]

Widespread problem? Have you surveyed all of these people? I mean, a lot of these people you're talking about are dealing with things you and I can't possibly understand. Putting them at the front of the line or getting them on the bus first isn't asking a whole lot and it's only inconvienence it's costing you. Most of these people can't even ride the most popular attractions. You want to stop fraud, take it up with Disney. I'll support you. Ending a program to help out the disabled because it's inconvienent for you is pretty ridiculous.

The problem of GAC usage has been documented on both coasts. Really it's the nature of our society that people will attempt to gain an advantage if there's no real risk of penalty. I think that many people that use GAC do so because they are available and assists with whatever their ailment may be. For most of these people, it probably means that they're going to the park more often because of it. Speaking solely from experience on my current trip. We acquired a GAC for my brother who has autism. Physically he is healthy, and loves going on attractions. This is a family vacation, and we're traveling 9 deep. The GAC only accommodates 6 of us. Previously we have made do. It was easier in the days where late returns for fastpass were accepted, we would just stockpile them throughout the day and supplement the GAC with Fastpasses as needed. Now, it just requires a bit more planning or some people stay off depending on the attraction (or we just don't use it if there's less than a 15-20 minute wait).

My brother could wait in the standby line as could many other autistic people. However, the option exists for him (and us) to not wait in the standby line. Our biggest concern is a temper tantrum from a 36 year old man, but the much more common occurrence is inappropriate behavior that essentially results from him having to stand still for any length of time. Yes, we could deal with that in the standby line and we (and all other park guests) would survive, but I also think the elimination of the GAC would probably limit these family trips.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yes, I've read it...

This is all about YOU. And your inconvenience.It's an over reaction on your part. Is it abused? yeah, of course. But that doesn't seem to be your problem with it. It's not up to YOU to determine which disability deserves to be addressed and what kind of help people should get. You want to crack down on fraud, go for it. But this is not as drastic as you're painting it and your "observations" are not scientific data.

I haven't once mentioned anything about determining who is disabled and who is not, and never once insinuated that some disabled people deserve higher treatment than others. It is my belief that the only people that deserve instant and unlimited Fastpass use are terminally ill children (and they do get it, thankfully).

Again, I never once said "restrict the card so only some parties can get it." Rather, I have been saying "change the process that the card entitles to one that is fair for everyone."

And are you sure you read it? Because the very first post in this thread features an article documenting GAC abuse. It's about Disneyland, but the same thing applies to WDW. If that isn't enough for you, there were numerous other CM's that came forward in this thread and confirmed the widespread abuse and it's impact on everyone else. As for my "observations", well, I guess you'll just have to take my word for it....

When my sister with severe CP went with our family to Disney nearly 20 years ago she was able to go on all the rides because my Dad and I would physically carry her onto e ride. Yes we risk having to carry her if something would go wrong but it's worth the risk seeing her enjoy being able to experience attractions like everyone else.

Absolutely. There are some people that can not transfer at all, though, or can not be properly secured in a safe manner on some rides. in which case, Disney does not permit them to ride, which is reasonable, since putting them on the ride would be putting their safety at risk.

I still don't understand where the "instant fast pass" for everything comes from. Some rides may have that but not all, and for the record I would gladly stand in any line if it meant my son could without assistance.

All GAC's marked with "use alternate entrance" (which is most of them, as mentioned by other posters earlier in this thread) enter through the Fastpass line at every Fastpass attraction. I suppose I should clarify that this isn't such a big problem for attractions without Fastpass.

 

[steamboat wil]

I have used the GAC card with my son and the alternate entrance is what it is. My advice to you is go with someone needs an alternate entrance pass. I will agree that some rides such as the ones in fantasyland are immediate access but many times in these alternate entrances you wait as long or longer than the standby line. In my experience rides like SSE, KS, HM, POTC actually wait as long or longer as standby because A. You need to wait for a CM to escort you in a more accessible area or B. you have to wait for the correct vehicle that has the special car. Now many would say the line isn't long but if only one car is accessible you have to wait for it to cycle through. I'm not arguing about the fakers who abuse this, I just want it known that many of these rides aren't automatic walk up and ride.
Since we are talking about fair what are your views on seating for shows? One being disabled could argue that they are put in the very back rows for things like muppets, ITTBAB, or mermaid missing elements from the show. Maybe they want to be seated in the center but do not have a choice. Again not trying to argue but how do you measure fairness.
Once again on the bus situation is it fair that a mobility vehicle gets loaded with their family first but unloaded last while the rest of the guests are already lining up for park entrance or returning to their rooms.

I guess what I'm saying is it is not our job to measure fairness, it is the job of guest services at the parks and resorts. In my opinion a system needs to be put in place by Disney working with the ADA to make a system to get rid of the abusers. One would think the ADA doesn't want people abusing the rights disabled persons have fought so hard to get.

3elove!!!

 

[misterID]

I haven't once mentioned anything about determining who is disabled and who is not, and never once insinuated that some disabled people deserve higher treatment than others. It is my belief that the only people that deserve instant and unlimited Fastpass use are terminally ill children (and they do get it, thankfully).

Again, I never once said "restrict the card so only some parties can get it." Rather, I have been saying "change the process that the card entitles to one that is fair for everyone."

And are you sure you read it?

Yes.

With the exception of Make a Wish/Give kids the world and other terminally ill kids, do you deserve INSTANT and UNLIMITED use of the Fastpass queue simply for having a disability?

The answer, is no, you do not.

Yes, I read what you said.

I suppose I should clarify that this isn't such a big problem for attractions without Fastpass.

Yes.

 

[tdpolo26]

Why is GAC even needed now with FPP and FP.... disabled people can pre plan just like non disabled people. the only time it should be needed is when there is not FP or fpp available. Then they should get so many entrances to the ride not unlimited. It should be totally possible with next gen to build it into the rfid chip so that it denies access if they try to enter within a lockout time period.

 

[startraveler]

I find this discussion a little difficult to briefly respond to. I use a wheelchair and can only ride in cars specially designed to stay in a wheelchair or cars that have an easy transfer with assistance (like soaring or mission space). I too have been frustrated having to be in line behind a whole lot of people who have special passes who don't need the special car who get to pass me by or even ride in the special car because they were ahead of me in line. But I don't know what they are dealing with. I am happy that they are still a few rides left that I can ride. (Really close to losing Haunted Mansion, lost Pirates years ago. Would love to be able to do the new Test Track, but doubt it. )

For starters I do pay the same amount to get in for less of a product than most people. But I'm happy to do it. But keep this in mind.
I am concerned about the handling of individuals with disabilities and this new system. Example: I usually get a fast pass for Toy Story. I go through the entrance at the designated time and work my way to the ramp. Frequently even on slow days that ramp is full all the way to the end. I have no idea when I will actually get on the ride. It could be an hour later if there are a lot of people in front of me. Another Example: Kilamanjaro Safari. Late in the afternoon it could say standby wait: 15 minutes. I'll use my fast pass and go the the special loading dock where I can wait 45 minutes. We have been known to skip reservations for dinner due to being in a line a lot longer than it looked. Small world, mexico ride, nemo, jungle cruise, haunted mansion even great movie ride have caused extra wait with the regular and fast pass lines going around me. I really can't use the "wait times" to plan.
Will the new system include a notation that I have to have the special car? Will they know how many special car riders are reserved ahead of me?Will they know how many GAC riders who don't need the special car but will need to use it will be in front of me? I can't know when I'll be free for another fast pass or to schedule a meal. So we don't plan much. We just play everything by ear. Get out of a ride, see if we can get on or a fast pass for another. So I can't plan in advance and apparently eventually I can no longer get fast passes after I get off a ride for the next ride. I know no one knows the answer to these questions.
I just felt that it should be noted that some people going "around the line" usually end up waiting a long time in another line. It is not a perk to be excluded from rides, sit in the back of shows, having only a few toilets to can go to (new fantasyland has helped this at bit), being turned away because strollers are taking wheelchair spots. I don't complain. Just try to be happy that I have a vacation spot that is accommodating. I have found people, CMs and guests, to generally be very helpful and generous at WDW and it will continue to be my number one vacation spot. But I do wonder how all this will affect my ability to tour the parks. BTW I don't have a smart phone, I usually stay off site, pay cash and I have an annual pass. All other things that will be affected by this new NEXTGEN stuff. Thanks for listening.

[ASIDE for further understanding :This does not even address the many times I've not been allowed on a water taxi or monorail or even the paddle boat because of space, rules, etc. Sometimes I can't get a room because all the roll-in showers are reserved, and many times by people who admit they don't need them but need something else, lowered bed, king bed, first floor, etc. that that room offers. Everything I do takes a lot longer and is more complicated. Example: we included a stay at ASM last trip. Three nights. We arrived at about 10 hoping to check in. They said no problem lots of rooms available, but then found out we needed a roll-in shower. First said it would be an hour, then came back with "really soon," told us to just wait in the food court they would get us. A couple of times they came and said "almost ready", but when I told them around 2:30 that they had 1/2 houred us to the point that I needed to use the bathroom, they speeded up after I refused to use the companion room in the female pool changing room - I have a female care giver. But again, I never complained.]

 

[jklakeview]

And... If the spaces that are avaialble for wheelchairs are full, then everyone behind the party waits too, regardless of capacity or how full the bus is? Or do they get to go ahead and board while trying to "pass" the wheelchair bound individual?

If that occurred, then yes they would have to wait. It's a lot like when someone doesn't want to stand as the bus gets full. They wait for the next bus. I'm sorry but that system is a lot more fair than others. Especially at the end of the night when there is like an hour wait and these non-disabled people come up in their power scooters and get to cut in front of everyone.

 

[jklakeview]

People complaining must have never had to use a GAC card. In my experiences, certain rides you have to wait the same time or even longer. Some that come to mind are POTC and KS. As far as the bus is concerned, people forget that even though you are loaded first sometimes it can take up to 20 minutes to unload you last. My child is 6 with cerebral palsy and low communication skills. He is supposed to wait by himself while me and his mother wait in the regular line, don't think so. Disney does a good job of limiting the number of people in your party and not breaking them up. BTW if we are getting all of these special "instant access" passes you guys will rest well knowing we don't (can't) ride some the headliners such RNRC or SpM. I am willing to bet most people with disabilities can't ride some of these attractions either, even your " label the scooters to fat people" guests. This thread is a good discussion but some need to keep in mind we, as special needs families deal with these problems daily. I think the fakers have ruined it for the families that need it, but if they take the GAC card away they're taking another vacation spot away from families like mine that look to destinations like this to make our trips easier and less stressful.

I agree with you that it is being ruined by NON-disabled (and yes overwieght and lazy people that don't want to walk) If that wasn't the case, then why were there lawsuits against people that wanted to use segways. It was another way for people to be lazy. If you don't want to walk, don't go to Disney. I'm sorry that your child is disabled but you should be more angry than I am that others are abusing the system. The biggest culprits are those damn power scooters. They should not get any special attention. They are paying a little more to get benifits. It's horrible

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yes.

Yes, I read what you said.

Yes.

Ok, then where exactly did I say that some disabilities deserve more than others? Terminally ill children? Different story. These children also obtain their pass through a pre-arrangement with Give Kids the World or Make a Wish.

I guess what I'm saying is it is not our job to measure fairness, it is the job of guest services at the parks and resorts. In my opinion a system needs to be put in place by Disney working with the ADA to make a system to get rid of the abusers. One would think the ADA doesn't want people abusing the rights disabled persons have fought so hard to get.

Right, but the thing is, Disney has complied with the ADA requirements even without the guest assistance cards at all! The cards are merely provided as a customer service thing. The reasoning behind the "use alternate entrance" card, the card most GAC holders are issued, AKA the "unlimited Fastpass line use" card, is "I can't wait in long lines." Well, that's fine, but there are ways to accommodate that without making it both instant and unlimited.