WDWLOVER1957
Active Member
They get loaded first as a safety issue nothing more than that.
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Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)
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They get loaded first as a safety issue nothing more than that.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Sorry but no, it's not flawed at all. If a person can't transfer onto a ride vehicle, then that person can not be safely secured onto that vehicle, and riding would put that person in a dangerous situation. Its reasonable to not allow someone to ride under these circumstances.
Or, by your logic, we should change Tower of Terror so that it does not drop, so people can safely ride in wheelchairs without having to transfer? By YOUR flawed logic, every single thing that requires mobility would have to be outlawed.
Simply being disabled does not mean you deserve INSTANT and UNLIMITED use of the Fastpass system. It means you should have the same chances of riding as everyone else.
Tom
Beta Return
They get loaded FIRST on the FIRST bus that pulls up after they arrive at the bus stop. Even if there are 300 people in line to get back to their hotel at the end of the day, if someone rolls up in a scooter, they get boarded - along with their party - and then the people waiting in line are boarded.
Everyone should board in the order in which they arrived at the bus queue, in my opinion.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
I've been on this board for quite a while now, and I remember it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't speak your mind about this sort of topic without immediate repercussions of "who are you to judge people! You don't know what's wrong with them!" etc.
The fact that this thread has been mostly civil shows me that:
1. This board has progressed and matured to a point where we feel comfortable with identifying that there is a problem, and
2. Disney's decision to have a vague policy for their disability accommodations, inconsistency in enforcing said policy, and turning a blind eye to the abuse has resulted in such widespread abuse that it has escalated to where it does have an impact on everyone's experience.
The fact that this thread has been mostly civil shows me that:
1. This board has progressed and matured to a point where we feel comfortable with identifying that there is a problem, and
2. Disney's decision to have a vague policy for their disability accommodations, inconsistency in enforcing said policy, and turning a blind eye to the abuse has resulted in such widespread abuse that it has escalated to where it does have an impact on everyone's experience.
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
Tom I have to say I actually have to agree a lot with this statement. I think there needs to be a compromise made on both sides of the issue. Both sides simply need to rise above the pettiness of this and Disney needs to come up with a system that does infringe on the rights of the well and of the ill/handicapped. There has to be a happy medium. There also should be a way for this to be done for handicapped people so they don't feel bad about the situation. You don't know how steamed I get over the bus situation and I am mobility impaired. I wait in line to get on the bus while someone who isn't handicapped gets in front of everyone else. Just because they are in scooter doesn't make a person handicapped. I really wonder if disney out lawed scooters and made tithe non handicapped go to traditional wheelchairs if that wouldn't help stop a good bit of deception and abuse
Dasnowz
Well-Known Member
Here is an idea....next gen. when you are getting ready to leave the park you scan your card/bracelet and let the bus know you wish to board in approx x minutes. it will tell you if there is room or you should wait and come out in a few minutes. A message would be sent out to the bus driver alerting them that they will have scooters on board. The scooters could then be grouped.
This is the only idea we can come up with. That way you could run say 3 or 4 buses straight packed with no scooters and move as many people as possible. This would allow someone who has an illness to remain inside the park and if needed they could stay inside of an a/c store or out of the elements and be more comfortable.
This would be a fair option for everyone.
This seems to be a huge issue at night mostly when everyone is tired and wanting to leave.
This is the only idea we can come up with. That way you could run say 3 or 4 buses straight packed with no scooters and move as many people as possible. This would allow someone who has an illness to remain inside the park and if needed they could stay inside of an a/c store or out of the elements and be more comfortable.
This would be a fair option for everyone.
This seems to be a huge issue at night mostly when everyone is tired and wanting to leave.
There is an easy fix...EVERYONE gets in the bus queue (they are wide enough to accomodate anything). Once the person with disabilities arrives at the turn leading to the front row of the queue...they and their party would then be moved to the "wheelchair" line and board the next bus, first. It's not perfect, but it's better than the current system. It would take very little modification to the bus queues...though it does require CMs to monitor those lines. But this kind of system really is only needed at closing times anyway, so it really wouldn't be too difficult to implement.
As for attraction access, the law is very clear that the accomodations being made need to be reasonable (of course, reasonable is often left up to a court to decide because it would be too difficult to codify). And unfortunately, sometimes the only solution is unreasonable, and therefore the person with the disability will miss out. It's unfortunate, but that's how life operates. If there were some guests who were allergic to water, does this mean Disney should be a water-free environment? No. That would be beyond unreasonable. Some people have sun allergies, does this mean every attraction must be indoors? No, that would be ridiculous. The ADA wouldn't require them to have ANY attraction indoors. The ADA merely requires reasonable access to what exists or will exist. It isn't an all-or-nothing law. If you can't physically stand in a queue, then under the ADA a wheel-chair provided by the park for the queue meets the requirement. It doesn't matter if you don't want to be in the chair, the law would see it as a reasonable accomodation...which is all that is required. As I've stated in an earlier post, many people on these boards who admit to receiving a GAC receive one for conditions that Disney indicates could be aggravated by many of the attractions (back or neck problems, claustrophobia, motion sickness, etc.). Disney does have a right to inquire about the nature of the disability in order to be accomodating (in other words, while you CAN go up to guest relations and say you need a GAC, they have a right to know the purpose of that need). As I said before, Disney can, under the ADA, restrict access to the attractions for which the conditions might be aggravated.
As for attraction access, the law is very clear that the accomodations being made need to be reasonable (of course, reasonable is often left up to a court to decide because it would be too difficult to codify). And unfortunately, sometimes the only solution is unreasonable, and therefore the person with the disability will miss out. It's unfortunate, but that's how life operates. If there were some guests who were allergic to water, does this mean Disney should be a water-free environment? No. That would be beyond unreasonable. Some people have sun allergies, does this mean every attraction must be indoors? No, that would be ridiculous. The ADA wouldn't require them to have ANY attraction indoors. The ADA merely requires reasonable access to what exists or will exist. It isn't an all-or-nothing law. If you can't physically stand in a queue, then under the ADA a wheel-chair provided by the park for the queue meets the requirement. It doesn't matter if you don't want to be in the chair, the law would see it as a reasonable accomodation...which is all that is required. As I've stated in an earlier post, many people on these boards who admit to receiving a GAC receive one for conditions that Disney indicates could be aggravated by many of the attractions (back or neck problems, claustrophobia, motion sickness, etc.). Disney does have a right to inquire about the nature of the disability in order to be accomodating (in other words, while you CAN go up to guest relations and say you need a GAC, they have a right to know the purpose of that need). As I said before, Disney can, under the ADA, restrict access to the attractions for which the conditions might be aggravated.
flynnibus
Premium Member
As with most of the changes Disney could make to keep the system more balanced. But that requires effort and diligence. Its far easier for Disney to just put them up front and don't deal with it. Which is what they do in most of the cases - most streamlined path.
Until Disney is MOTIVATED about this.. it's not difficulty that is keeping things from changing. It's Disney simply trying to take the one solution that answers all accommodations and blindly applying it.
Patricia Melton
Well-Known Member
I have a cousin who is in a wheelchair after having a car accident. I think she's been in it for about 7 years now. I've never seen her demand anything special because of her situation...and she realizes that there are just certain things that she can no longer do because of the state her body's currently in. She has a similar attitude to mine, actually, in that at my age I can no longer do the things I could do at 18. I highly doubt I will ever be able to form part of the cheerleading pyramid again, no matter how much I would want to, just because my body can no longer do that anymore. I don't, however, want to outlaw cheerleading pyramids because I cannot be in one.
I think all companies need to take a more realistic tone with the disabled access stuff. Some rides will not be for everyone, because there will be some people who cannot safely ride these rides. It's no different from people who are too short to go on a ride or who are just too big to fit into the ride vehicles. There does not need to be special accommodations for them. It is not a one size fits all world.
That's just reality. And, yes, reality does suck sometimes.
But wherever it is safe and possible there should be allowances made to make it easy for disabled guests to have the same experience that other guests can have...but no one should ever cross a line where the disabled guests start inconveniencing those around them and taking away enjoyment from other people's time in the parks. There should never, ever be an attitude that because someone is disable that person should have special perks that other people can't have...that sort of scenario then encourages people to fake disabilities to get those perks and leads to great abuses.
The goal should be to ensure that disabled people are not treated as second-class but are instead given the same access to things that non-disabled people have, so long as it's safe for everyone involved. This way everyone is treated as equals and no one is treated as some sort of special-privilege class because of a disability.
I've always thought it was offensive when that special treatment happens because it feels like it originates from someone's pity...and it treats the disabled person like an object to be pitied instead of an equal person.
I think all companies need to take a more realistic tone with the disabled access stuff. Some rides will not be for everyone, because there will be some people who cannot safely ride these rides. It's no different from people who are too short to go on a ride or who are just too big to fit into the ride vehicles. There does not need to be special accommodations for them. It is not a one size fits all world.
That's just reality. And, yes, reality does suck sometimes.
But wherever it is safe and possible there should be allowances made to make it easy for disabled guests to have the same experience that other guests can have...but no one should ever cross a line where the disabled guests start inconveniencing those around them and taking away enjoyment from other people's time in the parks. There should never, ever be an attitude that because someone is disable that person should have special perks that other people can't have...that sort of scenario then encourages people to fake disabilities to get those perks and leads to great abuses.
The goal should be to ensure that disabled people are not treated as second-class but are instead given the same access to things that non-disabled people have, so long as it's safe for everyone involved. This way everyone is treated as equals and no one is treated as some sort of special-privilege class because of a disability.
I've always thought it was offensive when that special treatment happens because it feels like it originates from someone's pity...and it treats the disabled person like an object to be pitied instead of an equal person.
Lord_Vader
Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
In this world of "fair", everyone behind the disabled party should have to wait for the next bus if there is not enough room or the ramp area is already full, regardless of capacity. During peak times, Disney typically does monitor and has asked us in the past if we mind waiting for a second bus, typically another 5-10 minutes if they are monitored but it usually ends up being another 15-20 minutes or more. We typically are visiting the last two weeks of the year, arguably the busiest two weeks and over the years have actually had people tell their children my wife is in her chair to get in front of lines. My opinion here, it seems the real issue is "percieved fairness" over fairness. Don't forget that while wheelchairs may get on first, they always get off last while everyone else is free to run into the park lines.
The entire point of Disney loading the scooters, then wheelchairs is safety and most in them have limited mobility therefore need to sit near the exit point. Most of us can climb into the busses, move around climb into the back, etc. Those with disabilities are signifigantly limited in the location(s) they can utilize and what happens if someone decides they are not going to give up a seat and stand so the disabled person could sit even if they are able to get on the bus? Should they always have to wait for the next bus?
I am willing to state most guests visiting in wheelchairs would much rather be walking around with the rest of us and only a select few try to use them to gain any advantage and when those individuals do they quickly learn that the advantages are very few and many time you are placed at a disadvantage.
jklakeview
Well-Known Member
Ok then why does the entire rest of the party get to load too. If you must load the chair first, then have 1 other person load with them. Having the entire large party load the bus is wrong.
jklakeview
Well-Known Member
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. When your party reaches the front of the line, then you get loaded. If the bus is already full, then you wait. It's a fair system that way.
flynnibus
Premium Member
because you'd split up the party obviously. And that is a downward slide... what happens when its two parents in a kid.. you leave the kid behind? You can't make case by case judgements like that on who stays and goes.. so disney just says 'their party..'
Lord_Vader
Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
And... If the spaces that are avaialble for wheelchairs are full, then everyone behind the party waits too, regardless of capacity or how full the bus is? Or do they get to go ahead and board while trying to "pass" the wheelchair bound individual?
misterID
Well-Known Member
Good grief, you're letting some handicapped people get on a bus before you. Some handicapped people get in front of you in line at an amusement park. If only people could actually manage this level of anger, or at the least, passion about stuff that actually matters this country (world, for that matter) would be a lot better off.
RandomPrincess
Keep Moving Forward
I don't think they are mad about handicapped people but the people who pretend to be handicapped and take advantage of the system. If only handicapped people used the system there would be no issues.
flynnibus
Premium Member
But just like freedom of speech.. in an effort to protect everyone (and not just the ones we agree with).. freedom means accepting some undesirables may pop-up. Those who abuse the system are the 'undesirables' that take advantage of the freedoms of those who are actually disadvantaged that we fight to protect.
The problem is always those who look to take advantage of others. Disney could do more to face those people - but opts not too. Meaning everyone suffers..
WDWLOVER1957
Active Member
Like I said no disabled person would be so petty or stupid to expect that to happen, you are the one who keeps harping on about fair and equal, it seems you only want equality one way . READ WHAT YOU WROTE I underlined it for you.
WDWLOVER1957
Active Member
Totaly agree unless its mum or dad in the chair,and they have small children, you know the ones to small to be left on their own
steamboat wil
Active Member
People complaining must have never had to use a GAC card. In my experiences, certain rides you have to wait the same time or even longer. Some that come to mind are POTC and KS. As far as the bus is concerned, people forget that even though you are loaded first sometimes it can take up to 20 minutes to unload you last. My child is 6 with cerebral palsy and low communication skills. He is supposed to wait by himself while me and his mother wait in the regular line, don't think so. Disney does a good job of limiting the number of people in your party and not breaking them up. BTW if we are getting all of these special "instant access" passes you guys will rest well knowing we don't (can't) ride some the headliners such RNRC or SpM. I am willing to bet most people with disabilities can't ride some of these attractions either, even your " label the scooters to fat people" guests. This thread is a good discussion but some need to keep in mind we, as special needs families deal with these problems daily. I think the fakers have ruined it for the families that need it, but if they take the GAC card away they're taking another vacation spot away from families like mine that look to destinations like this to make our trips easier and less stressful.
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