Rumor Pixar's Coco coming to the Mexico Pavilion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If possible, do you have an example of an attraction considered underperforming/ under demand/ least visited that you didn't or didn't seem so?

There were many underperforming rides prior to the MGM closures for construction...

They have been slowly closing them...the problem is they don't necessarily replace them...

Epcot rides being a big example.

I'd say mission space typically "underperforms"...laugh floor perhaps...one that doesn't have as long of a line as it probably should is under the sea. It's tough to be a bug? Laugh floor? Tiki room?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is that really Epcot's main problem? Other than Frozen and Test Track, Epcot's bigger issue seems to be that it's full of dead space and stale attractions which only attract any real queue during the busiest times of year.

That's a problem too...but I'm not going that deep.

MGM and Epcot...simply...don't have enough capacity. If they did, there would be no tiers.

It's just a numbers game

 

[larryz]

Putting in a new big E-Ticket isn't going to solve crowding problems, in fact, it could make them worse. That's what we're all expecting when SWL opens. It won't be a case of: "Whew, DHS is so much less crowded because the new lands are 'eating' guests!" It will be a packed nightmare instead.

When you have any-time ticketing strategy where you sell more tickets than the parks can handle, then there will always be crowding issues. The better solution is spread crowds more evenly by:

1. Discouraging peak attendance and encouraging off-peak attendance (done usually with resort deals in the off-season; and surge pricing and AP blackouts)
2. Move crowds to less dense areas: Make the three parks that are not the MK as desirable as the MK.
3. Make attractions that are currently less attended more attractive by upgrading them or even replacing them if you have to.

OR, you move to a system where tickets are only good for a specific day and they limit how many tickets they sell for that day. E.g., the Christmas and Halloween parties will never have a "phased closing" because too many people show up. The number of tickets sell out, and no more tickets are sold and no one else can get in. That's a nuclear option for dealing with the overcrowding at MK, but, it's a solution. Other than that, all you have is carrots (to move them to less dense parks/attractions) or sticks (increased pricing).

OR, you make sure your parks' capacity greatly exceeds the capacity of all the local resorts, hotels, and local housing. Then, rooming will limit the crowds.

Hey, if you can FP+ a ride, you can FP+ a whole park...

 

[mikejs78]

In general, it just makes sense for WDW to improve under-performing attractions before it adds new.

An under-performing attraction isn't bringing in folks, it isn't contributing to an overall positvie view of WDW on surveys, and it's sucking up money to run it without generating the crowds that spend money to support it.

Once all the attractions are up to snuff, then you can start adding new.

It doesn't even necessarily have to bring in people. An attraction can be successful enough if it atteacts enough people to help offload other e-ticket attractions. If a Coco ride ends up having a consistent 10-15 min wait as opposed to the current basically walk-on situation, that takes those people out of the main walkways, making the park feel less crowded, and may even shorten the line of FEA a bit. This all goes to improving guest experience without adding anything in operational costs.

 

[mikejs78]

I don't disagree with any of that...so much so that I didn't write to that effect.

Coco overlay would increase appeal - may be - and ridership...but wouldn't address the foundation issue in Epcot: capacity of attractions

I disagree. If they redid imagination to make it more compelling, and did the same to Mexico, Seas, and all parts of The Land that aren't Soarin, that would distribute guests more evenly. Add in a functioning Comminicore/Innoventions that was interesting and you'd have much better distribution of people throughout the park. This would have an effect of shortening lines at the E-Tickets like Soarin, Test Track and FEA without changing capacity one bit.

 

[mikejs78]

That's a problem too...but I'm not going that deep.

MGM and Epcot...simply...don't have enough capacity. If they did, there would be no tiers.

It's just a numbers game

UoE had huge capacity but drew few people. GotG will have less capacity but draw more people.. It's not about capacity per se but the practical distribution of ridership.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I disagree. If they redid imagination to make it more compelling, and did the same to Mexico, Seas, and all parts of The Land that aren't Soarin, that would distribute guests more evenly. Add in a functioning Comminicore/Innoventions that was interesting and you'd have much better distribution of people throughout the park. This would have an effect of shortening lines at the E-Tickets like Soarin, Test Track and FEA without changing capacity one bit.

Again...increasing appeal and distribution would help with crowd and may lower some standby times...but that does nothing for capacity or tiering.

The fastpass system is an algorithm built on the hourly capacity of rides, not their popularly.

Now if they opened new things...that's different. That's something that could make the tiering go away.

The fastpass computers have no idea how crowded each day is in advance...it just takes the preplanned park hours and ride statistics and distributes accordingly...it's the whole picture...it does not say "well, test track will be big on 12/24...so let's jack that up and reduce nemo"

Not how it works.

 

[marni1971]

Again...increasing appeal and distribution would help with crowd and may lower some standby times...but that does nothing for capacity or tiering..

Epcot had huge capacity as built. It was butchered over time and unkept to a stage where everyone wanted to ride the lower capacity attractions but the people movers weren’t made appealing enough and/or were removed.

The biggest problems are the computer systems over the last twenty years that were meant to reduce the need for new builds haven’t solved the problem they were meant to. When you’ve sunk billions upon billions into them to avoid having to build substantial new rides you can’t just say "we need to substantially build new rides because the Fastpass system doesn’t work as promised"

 

[mikejs78]

Again...increasing appeal and distribution would help with crowd and may lower some standby times...but that does nothing for capacity or tiering.

The fastpass system is an algorithm built on the hourly capacity of rides, not their popularly.

Now if they opened new things...that's different. That's something that could make the tiering go away.

The fastpass computers have no idea how crowded each day is in advance...it just takes the preplanned park hours and ride statistics and distributes accordingly...it's the whole picture...it does not say "well, test track will be big on 12/24...so let's jack that up and reduce nemo"

Not how it works.

Tiering exists because of the lack of compelling, popular rides, not because of capacity. It exists because if you didn't have tiering at Epcot, virtually *everyone* would try to reserve Soarin, TT, and FEA. FEA is a perfect case in point. Maelstrom was not a Tier 1 attraction but FEA is, and they had roughly equivalent capacities. Yet when they replaced Maelstrom with FEA, it essentially increased ridership of that attraction so significantly that they had to make it a tier 1 attraction. So it's not pure capacity that matters (# of guests per hour that a particular attraction or the park can handle ,) but relative demand for attractions compared to other attractions that matters.

 

[DisneyFan18]

They have just revealed the Deleted Scenes of Coco, and there’s one that could work with the ride, it’s called “The Way of the Riveras” and it is a musical number in which Abuelita and Miguel prepare their Día de los Muertos celebration while she teaches him Rivera family history and traditions. While I don’t think it will be used, as we don’t even know what the story of the ride would be, I do think that it would work perfectly as the introduction for the ride

 

[hobovampire]

Nothing more I can say. Just thought it was worth pointing out. There’s a dangerous precedent that just because something pulls in 10,000 people a day instead of 20,000 it’s called a failure.

Figures purely subjective.

That actually answers it perfectly. Just trying to get a feel for the type of attraction and that tells me what I need. Thank you!

 

[smile]

the people movers weren’t made appealing enough and/or were removed.

criminal


consider it a character flaw, but no, i will never get over it - it will bother me always

 

[tirian]

Elena M&G makes so much more sense than Donaldo... who isn't even Latino, but dresses up as one!!

#CulturalAppropriation #HollywoodWhiteWashing



Donald's a sailor, put his M&G on The Golden Dream ship by the American Showcase Theater.

—Except for Donald’s role as a goodwill ambassador in “Saludos, Amigos” and “The Three Caballeros.”

Elena and Coco make sense now but weren’t options for decades.

 

[MisterPenguin]

—Except for Donald’s role as a goodwill ambassador in “Saludos, Amigos” and “The Three Caballeros.”

Elena and Coco make sense now but weren’t options for decades.

I hope the U.S. ambassador to Mexico doesn't walk around Mexico City in an oversized sombrero wearing a serape. ¡Ay caramba!


What means, "¡Ay caramba!"?

Ah, yes... I don't know.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Epcot had huge capacity as built. It was butchered over time and unkept to a stage where everyone wanted to ride the lower capacity attractions but the people movers weren’t made appealing enough and/or were removed.

The biggest problems are the computer systems over the last twenty years that were meant to reduce the need for new builds haven’t solved the problem they were meant to. When you’ve sunk billions upon billions into them to avoid having to build substantial new rides you can’t just say "we need to substantially build new rides because the Fastpass system doesn’t work as promised"

I think you know as I do...that they needed a massive IT upgrade because they had duct taped 1980's systems...and had to lie to Wall Street to get the cover to spend the money.

But as you point...they couldn't do that and then go back to the bank...what would the dividend say?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Tiering exists because of the lack of compelling, popular rides, not because of capacity. It exists because if you didn't have tiering at Epcot, virtually *everyone* would try to reserve Soarin, TT, and FEA. FEA is a perfect case in point. Maelstrom was not a Tier 1 attraction but FEA is, and they had roughly equivalent capacities. Yet when they replaced Maelstrom with FEA, it essentially increased ridership of that attraction so significantly that they had to make it a tier 1 attraction. So it's not pure capacity that matters (# of guests per hour that a particular attraction or the park can handle ,) but relative demand for attractions compared to other attractions that matters.

Who told you that?

Is there "compelling" rides all over animal kingdom?

No...until last spring there were basically 2 front line rides...dinosaur and kali were hit or miss...

The reason that tiering didn't exist was because safaris had large capacity...which they can adjust with more trucks?

Magic kingdom gets double the amount of annual visitors...why doesn't it have tiers?

Becuse the TTA is compelling? Or country bears? Or the paddle boat?

No...it's because they have the capacity...especially when you have some really big ones - pirates, haunted mansion, buzz and jungle cruise. That is a numeric figure...not demand.

Tiering separates the popular from the un...but the existence and numbers are about ride capacity.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

Elena of Avalor would be a cute overlay too and she's the first Latina Disney princess. Could put the meet and greet in there too. Would go with the Frozen stuff in a sense. I wonder if that has ever been an option.

I'm not familiar with the show so I could be wrong, but isn't it based in a fictional kingdom? If so Coco would be a much better fit as it is specifically Mexican.

 

[mikejs78]

Who told you that?

Is there "compelling" rides all over animal kingdom?

No...until last spring there were basically 2 front line rides...dinosaur and kali were hit or miss...

The reason that tiering didn't exist was because safaris had large capacity...which they can adjust with more trucks?

Magic kingdom gets double the amount of annual visitors...why doesn't it have tiers?

Becuse the TTA is compelling? Or country bears? Or the paddle boat?

No...it's because they have the capacity...especially when you have some really big ones - pirates, haunted mansion, buzz and jungle cruise. That is a numeric figure...not demand.

Tiering separates the popular from the un...but the existence and numbers are about ride capacity.

That makes no sense. Why would capacity necessitate the existence of tiers? Why would a lack of capacity require me to separate my more popular attractions from my lesser ones?

Magic Kingdom doesn't have tiers because it has a large # of top tier attractions. Not TTA or Country bears, but Space Mountain, BTM, Splash, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, 7DMT, Jungle Cruise. And it has a large number of popular, C and D ticket type attractions - Pan, Pooh, Mermaid, Buzz. The load is distributed far more than at Epcot.

For AK then - they didnt have tiers, then *added* capacity by adding two attractions, then they had tiers. If capacity is the driver of tiers why did they have to add tiers when adding attractions? It's because everyone wanted to do those two attractions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That makes no sense. Why would capacity necessitate the existence of tiers? Why would a lack of capacity require me to separate my more popular attractions from my lesser ones?

Magic Kingdom doesn't have tiers because it has a large # of top tier attractions. Not TTA or Country bears, but Space Mountain, BTM, Splash, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, 7DMT, Jungle Cruise. And it has a large number of popular, C and D ticket type attractions - Pan, Pooh, Mermaid, Buzz. The load is distributed far more than at Epcot.

For AK then - they didnt have tiers, then *added* capacity by adding two attractions, then they had tiers. If capacity is the driver of tiers why did they have to add tiers when adding attractions? It's because everyone wanted to do those two attractions.

It's just math...there isn't a higher power at work.

And animal kingdom went tiers for a specific ride opening...Nobody said it's permanent.

 

[smile]

eh, should still build coco