Rumor Pixar's Coco coming to the Mexico Pavilion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

First of all, this isn't all about Fastpass. People not going on El Rio now, and maybe going on with a Coco ride will reduce standby lines more than FastPass, unless the new Coco ride is a tier 1 fastpass.

Regarding FastPass, its because their aren't enough high-tier FastPass attractions - it had Little to do with total ride capacity. Look at Imagination - it's a FastPass with typically no wait and plenty of surplus FastPasses. If they plussed Imagination and made it a top tier attraction with a lot of demand, without changing the ride capacity in any way whatsoever, do you mean to tell me that it wouldn't affect the demand for the other FP attractions?

It's the capacity on the high end attractions...we're back to square. If they add more high end attractions then yes...it will affect the fastpass availability for all. RNRcoaster doesn't handle a lot...nor does midway mania...nor does soarin...

That why we have tiers.

I agree that a better Mexico ride will help standbys and I would invite that. But it would only affect fastpass if they added fast pass...

We're very close to agreeing here...one...more...push...

 

[MisterPenguin]

Here are the countries it's [Coco] yet to open in...

 

[BrianLo]

Huh, I wonder why it hasn’t been released in the UK yet, that seems pretty late

Paddington 2 was positioned as their big holiday release there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And you're clueless to how us humans communicate.

My bad...I jumped the gun there...completely my fault

...can I get an "educated" chart on that, though?

 

[MisterPenguin]

My bad...I jumped the gun there...completely my fault

...can I get an "educated" chart on that, though?

I deleted my post so as to clear the air and record.

The chart is for Coco's continued very slow international roll-out. I edited that post to make it clear.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I deleted my post so as to clear the air and record.

The chart is for Coco's continued very slow international roll-out.

Got it...and I will do the same.

Any idea I'm unfair is incorrect

 

[RSoxNo1]

But redoing old rides doesn't increase capacity...and two parks - the lands of tiering - desperately need it.

Putting in a new big E-Ticket isn't going to solve crowding problems, in fact, it could make them worse. That's what we're all expecting when SWL opens. It won't be a case of: "Whew, DHS is so much less crowded because the new lands are 'eating' guests!" It will be a packed nightmare instead.

When you have any-time ticketing strategy where you sell more tickets than the parks can handle, then there will always be crowding issues. The better solution is spread crowds more evenly by:

1. Discouraging peak attendance and encouraging off-peak attendance (done usually with resort deals in the off-season; and surge pricing and AP blackouts)
2. Move crowds to less dense areas: Make the three parks that are not the MK as desirable as the MK.
3. Make attractions that are currently less attended more attractive by upgrading them or even replacing them if you have to.

OR, you move to a system where tickets are only good for a specific day and they limit how many tickets they sell for that day. E.g., the Christmas and Halloween parties will never have a "phased closing" because too many people show up. The number of tickets sell out, and no more tickets are sold and no one else can get in. That's a nuclear option for dealing with the overcrowding at MK, but, it's a solution. Other than that, all you have is carrots (to move them to less dense parks/attractions) or sticks (increased pricing).

OR, you make sure your parks' capacity greatly exceeds the capacity of all the local resorts, hotels, and local housing. Then, rooming will limit the crowds.

People knock New Fantasyland because there was no E-ticket to it and one of the D-tickets was underbuilt. What little Disney has done during the Iger administration has exhibited a poor understanding of park operations. There are parks that need capacity and there are parks that need major draws to shift Fastpass demand. Sometimes they get it right, but their batting average under Iger hasn't been great.

The Magic Kingdom needs more capacity. Had they gone forward with the original Princess plan it would have been even worse. Having said that, they underbuilt the Mine Train from a capacity standpoint, and could have used another major people eater like Mermaid.

Epcot decided to use a lower demand C-ticket as the anchor for the most popular home grown franchise in 20 years. The inevitable happened and Frozen Ever After failed to meet capacity demands. What's more frustrating is that this was on the heals of them recognizing capacity issues in Soarin' and Toy Story Mania, essentially solving the problems at both of those attractions. Having said that, I'm far less concerned with the decisions going into Epcot strictly from a capacity standpoint.

At Hollywood Studios they're in trouble. The Star Wars attractions are expected to accommodate ~1500 guests per hour (per rumors/reports). That's light for E-tickets, but not Flight of Passage level light. Yes, Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway will help, and some people on here are speculating that MaMRR will be the best of the three attractions. It should also have better capacity. The problem myself and others saw with this is that the park would have been better suited with another high capacity attraction, even if it had marginal demand. Building MaMRR elsewhere in the park and closing Great Movie Ride for a major refurb upon the opening of Toy Story Land would have been a much better option for park operations.

At the Animal Kingdom, I expect the wait times for Na'vi River Journey to settle down, especially if that park sees another new attraction in the next 5 years. At Flight of Passage, they need to find a way to add 2 more theaters. The new additions elsewhere in WDW may pull guests away from Animal Kingdom, but as of today, Flight of Passage is the lowest capacity E-ticket in any Disney park in the world.

If you want to see the numbers...I actually found a "theoretical" version of them...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/crooks...loperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/amp/

The number to look at is the "fastpass+ allocation" number...you'll see a much higher number for the heavy hitters at DAK And MK...than those at MGM and Epcot...which are very small.

That's not based on "popularity"...it's based on capacity. Rock n roller coaster, soarin, frozen, midway mania...can't handle the same amount of passes as the ones in the other parks...and a tier is born.

It's just math. They could "ease" that at Epcot by making the Mexico ride one that needs/warrants a fastpass queue...but other than that...nothing would change. A standby wait does nothing to affect those numbers.

There are some good numbers on that site, but they're not great. I have some capacity numbers on my site, but it's not all organized as that one is. For the most part, Fastpass distribution is 70% of an attraction's hourly capacity. Having said that, I believe there is some manipulation, and I think for at least some attractions, they stagger the availability.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People knock New Fantasyland because there was no E-ticket to it and one of the D-tickets was underbuilt. What little Disney has done during the Iger administration has exhibited a poor understanding of park operations. There are parks that need capacity and there are parks that need major draws to shift Fastpass demand. Sometimes they get it right, but their batting average under Iger hasn't been great.

The Magic Kingdom needs more capacity. Had they gone forward with the original Princess plan it would have been even worse. Having said that, they underbuilt the Mine Train from a capacity standpoint, and could have used another major people eater like Mermaid.

Epcot decided to use a lower demand C-ticket as the anchor for the most popular home grown franchise in 20 years. The inevitable happened and Frozen Ever After failed to meet capacity. What's more frustrating is that this was on the heals of them recognizing capacity issues in Soarin' and Toy Story Mania, essentially solving the problems at both of those attractions. Having said that, I'm far less concerned with the decisions going into Epcot strictly from a capacity standpoint.

At Hollywood Studios they're in trouble. The Star Wars attractions are expected to accommodate ~1500 guests per hour (per rumors/reports). That's light for E-tickets, but not Flight of Passage level light. Yes, Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway will help, and some people on here are speculating that MaMRR will be the best of the three attractions. It should also have better capacity. The problem myself and others saw with this is that the park would have been better suited with another high capacity attraction, even if it had marginal demand. Building MaMRR elsewhere in the park and closing Great Movie Ride for a major refurb upon the opening of Toy Story Land would have been a much better option for park operations.

At the Animal Kingdom, I expect the wait times for Na'vi River Journey to settle down, especially if that park sees another new attraction in the next 5 years. At Flight of Passage, they need to find a way to add 2 more theaters. The new additions elsewhere in WDW may pull guests away from Animal Kingdom, but as of today, Flight of Passage is the lowest capacity E-ticket in any Disney park in the world.



There are some good numbers on that site, but they're not great. I have some capacity numbers on my site, but it's not all organized as that one is. For the most part, Fastpass distribution is 70% of an attraction's hourly capacity. Having said that, I believe there is some manipulation, and I think for at least some attractions, they stagger the availability.

Very detailed...excellent.

 

[MisterPenguin]

could have used another major people eater like Mermaid.

Which ain't eating many people these days. It has a queue to hold two hour's worth of guests but only a 0-15 minute wait.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which ain't eating many people these days. It has a queue to hold two hour's worth of guests but only a 0-15 minute wait.

Yep...it's almost like the wdw fanbase has rejected a somewhat lame, old ip omnimover...

...red alert, capital planning...better hope people don't rebel against simulators or trackless...

 

[marni1971]

Yep...it's almost like the wdw fanbase has rejected a somewhat lame, old ip omnimover...

...red alert, capital planning...better hope people don't rebel against simulators or trackless...

On the contrary, the dark ride omnimover has had a bit of a renaissance in Glendale and Burbank since Seas with Nemo.

The Mermaid issue was expectations were set too high.

 

[Cameron1529]

And yet...we still don't have a basis to judge tiering...which was the whole point.

So if you've got numbers, that would help.

There are 24 fastpass equipped rides in magic kingom
12 in dak, 12 in Epcot, 11 in studios (fantastic being one...which negates like 7,000)

Some have tiers, some don't. Why?

I'm being told it's Because people don't got on el Rio del tiempo...

Is it?

Good question, I personally have no idea. I am sure Disney has a method to their madness.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Other than the omnimover we're talking about?

 

[BrianLo]

People knock New Fantasyland because there was no E-ticket to it and one of the D-tickets was underbuilt. What little Disney has done during the Iger administration has exhibited a poor understanding of park operations. There are parks that need capacity and there are parks that need major draws to shift Fastpass demand. Sometimes they get it right, but their batting average under Iger hasn't been great.

The Magic Kingdom needs more capacity. Had they gone forward with the original Princess plan it would have been even worse. Having said that, they underbuilt the Mine Train from a capacity standpoint, and could have used another major people eater like Mermaid.

Epcot decided to use a lower demand C-ticket as the anchor for the most popular home grown franchise in 20 years. The inevitable happened and Frozen Ever After failed to meet capacity. What's more frustrating is that this was on the heals of them recognizing capacity issues in Soarin' and Toy Story Mania, essentially solving the problems at both of those attractions. Having said that, I'm far less concerned with the decisions going into Epcot strictly from a capacity standpoint.

At Hollywood Studios they're in trouble. The Star Wars attractions are expected to accommodate ~1500 guests per hour (per rumors/reports). That's light for E-tickets, but not Flight of Passage level light. Yes, Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway will help, and some people on here are speculating that MaMRR will be the best of the three attractions. It should also have better capacity. The problem myself and others saw with this is that the park would have been better suited with another high capacity attraction, even if it had marginal demand. Building MaMRR elsewhere in the park and closing Great Movie Ride for a major refurb upon the opening of Toy Story Land would have been a much better option for park operations.

At the Animal Kingdom, I expect the wait times for Na'vi River Journey to settle down, especially if that park sees another new attraction in the next 5 years. At Flight of Passage, they need to find a way to add 2 more theaters. The new additions elsewhere in WDW may pull guests away from Animal Kingdom, but as of today, Flight of Passage is the lowest capacity E-ticket in any Disney park in the world.



There are some good numbers on that site, but they're not great. I have some capacity numbers on my site, but it's not all organized as that one is. For the most part, Fastpass distribution is 70% of an attraction's hourly capacity. Having said that, I believe there is some manipulation, and I think for at least some attractions, they stagger the availability.

Now for something totally controversial - there are actually two totally competing goals here. Allowing guests simply to have more experiences in a day and taking up guests' time operationally outside of park infrastructure (walkways primarily).

If the goal is park operations (keeping guests held up out of walkways), there is such a thing as too high capacity if the attraction experience is not long enough.

A 5 minute ride with a capacity of 3k or so in Hollywood Studios would achieve almost nothing. Sure, it tacks on an extra ride to the tally in the day, but it literally soaks up an average 10 minutes of guests time without a wait.

SDMT does more for helping MK "operationally" than Mermaid does. SDMT actually soaks up a significant amount of time for visitors in the park. A really good park has a good mix of both, lots of anytime attractions and lots of attractions with a bit of a wait that are worth it. Or the old-school model with high capacity attractions that took up a long time to experience.

 

[larryz]

SDMT does more for helping MK "operationally" than Mermaid does. SDMT actually soaks up a significant amount of time for visitors in the park. A really good park has a good mix of both, lots of anytime attractions and lots of attractions with a bit of a wait that are worth it. Or the old-school model with high capacity attractions that took up a long time to experience.

I submit, then, that putting a revolving restaurant and gift shop at the entrance to the ride, so people could spend money while waiting in line, would be the ultimate success story at WDW.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Now for something totally controversial - there are actually two totally competing goals here. Allowing guests simply to have more experiences in a day and taking up guests' time operationally outside of park infrastructure (walkways primarily).

If the goal is park operations (keeping guests held up out of walkways), there is such a thing as too high capacity if the attraction experience is not long enough.

A 5 minute ride with a capacity of 3k or so in Hollywood Studios would achieve almost nothing. Sure, it tacks on an extra ride to the tally in the day, but it literally soaks up an average 10 minutes of guests time without a wait.

SDMT does more for helping MK "operationally" than Mermaid does. SDMT actually soaks up a significant amount of time for visitors in the park. A really good park has a good mix of both, lots of anytime attractions and lots of attractions with a bit of a wait that are worth it. Or the old-school model with high capacity attractions that took up a long time to experience.

There absolutely is a sweet spot. Something like Mermaid can be slowed down to reduce capacity while Mine Train could have benefited from longer trains (just an example for increasing capacity). Adding the 3rd track to TSMM or 3rd theater to Soarin' basically made those rides ideal setups. They absorb a significant number of people, continually have waits in a manageable window (40-60 minutes) and generally have same day Fastpass+ availability.

Some additional predictions here.

When Star Wars Land/Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway opens the three new rides move into Tier 1 (either a true tier 1, or a DAK type Tier 1) Fastpass.

When Ratatouille opens it will move to Tier 1 and bump Soarin' to Tier 2. When Guardians opens it will be added to Tier 1 and may or may not bump Test Track. This would leave Guardians, Rat and Frozen as the Tier 1 options.

When Tron opens, I would not expect tiers in the MK.

 

[Bocabear]

There absolutely is a sweet spot. Something like Mermaid can be slowed down to reduce capacity while Mine Train could have benefited from longer trains (just an example for increasing capacity). Adding the 3rd track to TSMM or 3rd theater to Soarin' basically made those rides ideal setups. They absorb a significant number of people, continually have waits in a manageable window (40-60 minutes) and generally have same day Fastpass+ availability.

Some additional predictions here.

When Star Wars Land/Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway opens the three new rides move into Tier 1 (either a true tier 1, or a DAK type Tier 1) Fastpass.

When Ratatouille opens it will move to Tier 1 and bump Soarin' to Tier 2. When Guardians opens it will be added to Tier 1 and may or may not bump Test Track. This would leave Guardians, Rat and Frozen as the Tier 1 options.

When Tron opens, I would not expect tiers in the MK.

I would not want the Mine trains any longer...as it is you are already at the bottom of the hill before the back half of the train clears the top of the lift...

 

[DisneyDodo]

Now for something totally controversial - there are actually two totally competing goals here. Allowing guests simply to have more experiences in a day and taking up guests' time operationally outside of park infrastructure (walkways primarily).

If the goal is park operations (keeping guests held up out of walkways), there is such a thing as too high capacity if the attraction experience is not long enough.

A 5 minute ride with a capacity of 3k or so in Hollywood Studios would achieve almost nothing. Sure, it tacks on an extra ride to the tally in the day, but it literally soaks up an average 10 minutes of guests time without a wait.

SDMT does more for helping MK "operationally" than Mermaid does. SDMT actually soaks up a significant amount of time for visitors in the park. A really good park has a good mix of both, lots of anytime attractions and lots of attractions with a bit of a wait that are worth it. Or the old-school model with high capacity attractions that took up a long time to experience.

Having people standing in line for long periods of time may help decongest the walkways, but it doesn't help improve the guest experience. The ideal park would be able to entertain enough guests at a time that all the walkways would be clear and the lines would be short. The more ride capacity Disney adds to its parks, the closer to this ideal we can get.

 

[Princess Leia]

There absolutely is a sweet spot. Something like Mermaid can be slowed down to reduce capacity while Mine Train could have benefited from longer trains (just an example for increasing capacity). Adding the 3rd track to TSMM or 3rd theater to Soarin' basically made those rides ideal setups. They absorb a significant number of people, continually have waits in a manageable window (40-60 minutes) and generally have same day Fastpass+ availability.

Some additional predictions here.

When Star Wars Land/Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway opens the three new rides move into Tier 1 (either a true tier 1, or a DAK type Tier 1) Fastpass.

When Ratatouille opens it will move to Tier 1 and bump Soarin' to Tier 2. When Guardians opens it will be added to Tier 1 and may or may not bump Test Track. This would leave Guardians, Rat and Frozen as the Tier 1 options.

When Tron opens, I would not expect tiers in the MK.

I think Test Track could remain Tier 1, only because Epcot would be left with 2/3s if their Tier 1s in World Showcase, which isn’t entirely open until 11 (I’m guessing that any country with a ride will be open in the morning). That is unless they start opening WS with the rest of the park.

 

[BrianLo]

There absolutely is a sweet spot. Something like Mermaid can be slowed down to reduce capacity while Mine Train could have benefited from longer trains (just an example for increasing capacity). Adding the 3rd track to TSMM or 3rd theater to Soarin' basically made those rides ideal setups. They absorb a significant number of people, continually have waits in a manageable window (40-60 minutes) and generally have same day Fastpass+ availability.

Some additional predictions here.

When Star Wars Land/Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway opens the three new rides move into Tier 1 (either a true tier 1, or a DAK type Tier 1) Fastpass.

When Ratatouille opens it will move to Tier 1 and bump Soarin' to Tier 2. When Guardians opens it will be added to Tier 1 and may or may not bump Test Track. This would leave Guardians, Rat and Frozen as the Tier 1 options.

When Tron opens, I would not expect tiers in the MK.

The tiers are largely guided by a limited number of attractions in a park with demand far exceeding the available capacity. A have/have not situation. If a park were to have 40 anytime attractions and two that had multi-hour waits, Disney would be likely to tier those two attractions. Despite the park having sufficient attractions. It's basically the AK situation, historically no attractions were tiered because no attractions in recent years leading up to Pandora really were all that ridiculous in standby. Ridiculous on the lines of original Soarin'/TSMM, or Frozen/SDMT/FOP.

MK doesn't have tiers, because while there are certainly a few most desirable fast passes, there are others that are ok runners-up.

Which puts DHS in a weird position as I very easily could see them soon to have 5-6 of those types of attractions (Both Star Wars, M&MRR, TSMM, RRC and +/- Slinky pending its final capacity). I don't know what they will do, but I'd actually side onto a one from column A (A Star Wars attraction), one/two from column B and one from our current second tier attractions.

Epcot is also interesting because they will also expand from three (Test Track, Soarin', Frozen), to at least 5. What I will say though in your hypothesis is that Ratatouille has the most generous capacity out of the lot (>2K real world). So I don't think long term it will be tiered above the aforementioned. Epcot I could see doing away with tiers, especially if they are able to make Coco or eventually imagination attractive again.