Pirates, right or wrong?

Timmay

Well-Known Member
Yeah...the killing to get what they wanted must have just been made up, right?

Actually, the killing the pirates did is very much over stated, much like that of late 1800's outlaws. Edward Teach (Blackbeard) has no record of ever having killed anyone. It doesn't mean they were not cruel thieves, but if you are upset about the Disney portrayal of pirates, then you should also consider the unrealistic image of royalty (ie princess). Now there was an evil bunch.
 

cdunbar

Active Member
Yeah...the killing to get what they wanted must have just been made up, right?
TiggerRPh, I never said the killing was made up I just said that in alot of cases pirates were just people who didn't feel they had to adapt to cultural standards. Now maybe the whole killing to get what they wanted thing did happen, I mean I wasn't there and unless you've found the fountain of youth neither were you :animwink: , lol! Neways, if you want to bring the whole killing to get what they wanted into play then gosh you just basically cited almost every single World and American History book ever written :hammer:
 

Eyorefan

Active Member
If you look at the movies I think they provide the best reflection of real like.

There are good pirates and bad pirates.

There are also good Govenors and bad Govenors.

So really it's not about what you are it's about what choices you make.
 

MickeyfromSTL

New Member
let me preface this by saying that i loved both the pirates movie and the ride is still, despite the lame refurb, one of my favorites.


I just wanted to say that I think the minor refurb is exactly what the ride needed… I don’t think it was lame at all. People would have been outraged if the ride was completely overhauled, so Disney did minor additions along with needed maintenance/new lighting effects/and sound to enhance the ride. I think Disney refurbished the Pirates perfectly.
 

MomofKatie

Member
Actually, the killing the pirates did is very much over stated, much like that of late 1800's outlaws. Edward Teach (Blackbeard) has no record of ever having killed anyone. It doesn't mean they were not cruel thieves, but if you are upset about the Disney portrayal of pirates, then you should also consider the unrealistic image of royalty (ie princess). Now there was an evil bunch.
My feelings exactly! The royal families of Europe did many, many things that in today's society would be considered evil and bloodthirsty.

If we examine historical groups in our 21st century context, none fare too well. The world was a different place then, and we would probably think many people were cruel, ignorant and barbaric.
 

ELopez

Member
I like the point made that pirates are so far removed from our time (at least in our society), that it is ok to "disney" them up and have fun with it.

I have always been bothered by little boys playing with army men, GI Joe, and the like. War is real and people are dying daily. Thankfully, I have 4 daughters (no sons), so I haven't had to address that.

But I have also been bothered by how Disney (Princess movies, in particular) seems to glorify lying to parents, rebellion, etc. Don't worry, I got over it fast. My girls don't seem to have any negative effects from it, though!
 

sbkline

Well-Known Member
Whoever that said "there are good pirates and bad pirates", I must disagree. From what I know about pirates, I get the impression that, by definition, a pirate is one who plunders, murders and steals for a living. We have pirates today who do this on the open seas. Quite an old profession dating back hundreds or thousands of years, only with modern equipment and weapons. So, while one may be a "good pirate" in the sense of being good at his profession, I think their raison d'etre is to murder, plunder, rape and steal. And I also agree that, historically (and not necessarily excluding the present day), royalty has been selfish, greedy, adulterous and, at many points in history, ruthless and murderous.

However, as long as we teach our kids the actual truth of these groups of people (especially the pirates), I see nothing wrong with having a fun, fantasy version like we have today. In other words, as evil as the pirates were, I see nothing more than harmless fantasy and make believe in rides such as POTC, or the movies, or Pirate toys at Walmart, etc. I see nothing wrong with fantasy princesses who do nothing but good when, in reality, the opposite has historically been true.

As a Christian, I see it as being similar to that Harry Potter debate that has raged within the church in recent years. Some fundamental type preachers condemn it as promoting witchcraft. While I agree that real witchcraft is Satanic and forbidden in the scriptures, I consider HP to be nothing more than harmless fantasy and I would have no problem with my children reading the stories.

The same goes for war toys as well. I'm certainly not a die hard "pacifist" in the sense of being against violence at all times and circumstances. I do believe that there is a time to fight for what's right, or to defend yourself and I believe in the concept of a "just war". However, I think the current campaign in Iraq falls well short of that concept, and I condemn what I perceive as aggressive militarism on the part of the USA. Even so, I see nothing wrong with little boys playing army men and whatnot. IMO, it's a harmless activity that little boys have been doing for years. And, while I certainly plan to teach my boy(s) (and girls for that matter) that war, even when just, is not something to glorify and take pleasure in, I see nothing wrong with little boys acting out their imaginations by playing war, or cowboys and Indians, etc. And on that note, those idiot school officials that suspended the little boy for simulating a gun with his fingers need to have the ever living crap smacked out of them. But I digress...

It's all in being able to know right from wrong and know fantasy from reality.
 

pintraderpayee

Active Member
Louisianans owe a debt to at least one pirate, Jean Lafitte (POTC's Lafitte's Landing is named for him). If he had not helped defeat the British at New Orleans, our history would have turned out quite differently! Luv the Brits, now, especially PM Blair (smart and kinda cute, gotta luv him:D )

I think nuturing a good imagination through pretend games is vital to a child's growth as a person.

DD(13) and I can't wait to see the refurbed POTC, but we are also still checking to see that the hairy leg is still there!!:lol:



71 days until we are ºoºrlando bound with 20 teens on a school bus for 930 miles of smiles:hammer: :sohappy:
 

Tramp

New Member
now, i am by no mean a politically correct person, and i do enjoy the pirates stuff. i just find it um...odd that this is what parents are letting their children emulate. while ive no kids of my own, i wouldnt keep them from enjoying the movies and the rides, but i wouldnt glamourize pirates either.

.

If there are any lessons to be learned from the pirates, it's that some people need to walk the plank or be thrown into the bilge with the rest of the rats until they rot....ie., the despicable pedophile. That's the REAL & PRESENT danger to the mental and physical welfare of our kids these days. :wave:


:lookaroun
 
Re: Pir

Unless you're trying to sail around the world. ;) Seriously, we know someone who did this (a young, childless at this point, couple) and there were areas where they were VERY worried about pirates, and had brought weapons as a precaution. I THINK it was when they were cruising through the Indian Ocean, but I'm not certain.

The first mention of pirates is from the 13th century B.C. in the Aegean Sea, but your friends had the right to be worried. While the number of attacks has declined in the past several years, still 239 ships were attacked by pirates this last year (2006.) The most dangerous waters for pirate attacks are the costal waters of Bangladesh, Brazil, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Somalia. Indeed, the cruise ship "Seabourn Spirit" was attacked by pirates in Somalian waters, less then two years ago.
 

cooleo

Well-Known Member
While I can undertsand what you are saying about glorifying the pirates , I along with my ds 6 will be attending TP&PP
Pirates are real maybe not Jack Sparrow but to say they never existed would be worse ....making them out to be heros I don't think thats Disneys Problem it yours as a parent Ilove the Sopranos but don't take my son on vacation to New Jersey to see the sets ....
It is our responsibilities as parents to teach right from wrong
Its all about letting them know where to take your imagination
and the way the world and specifically this country is operating right now its really not a small world after all :lookaroun
I hope Mr Iger does not try to be too Politically Correct with Disney as I feel MIke was.
So while I am seeing the party my son dressed as a pirate I will once again thank Disney for expanding my sons imagination

Bravo!!! Very well put. Anytime a parent allows a child to do anything without their guidance, the child is very likely to take it in the wrong context. Here's to doing our job as parents. If there were more of us like this out there, the world would be a better place:sohappy:
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
You all are really missing the point. Pirates are evil because they kill people. They should not be in WDW. Neither should Splash Mountain, because it has Brer Bear on it, and bears kill people. The Winnie the Poo ride needs to go too, because tigers (and tiggers, I suppose) kill people.

I'm glad no one on here has been so PC to suggest POTC (ride) is bad for children. Healthy escapist entertainment, that's what's at the heart of most attractions!
 

BRER DAD

New Member
You all are really missing the point. Pirates are evil because they kill people. They should not be in WDW. Neither should Splash Mountain, because it has Brer Bear on it, and bears kill people. The Winnie the Poo ride needs to go too, because tigers (and tiggers, I suppose) kill people.

I'm glad no one on here has been so PC to suggest POTC (ride) is bad for children. Healthy escapist entertainment, that's what's at the heart of most attractions!
People kill people, does that mean we should close Disney World??? :hammer:
 

joshwill

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You all are really missing the point. Pirates are evil because they kill people. They should not be in WDW. Neither should Splash Mountain, because it has Brer Bear on it, and bears kill people. The Winnie the Poo ride needs to go too, because tigers (and tiggers, I suppose) kill people.

I'm glad no one on here has been so PC to suggest POTC (ride) is bad for children. Healthy escapist entertainment, that's what's at the heart of most attractions!

well, as long as parents let their children know that its fantasy. you take some of the scenes by themselves, pirates sacking the tow, auctioning off women, etc, then it could be seen as bad.
 

Astronaut Jones

New Member
I don't think it really matters that much what pirates were historically in reference to a Disney World attraction. I mean kids emulating pirates entails kids wearing eye-patches and carrying around plastic swords, not becoming womanizing drunkards who murder people. If kids were doing that latter I would think there was a problem. Plus, the pirates that kids pretend to be are usually along the lines of Jack Sparrow or Captain Blood (more of a Robin Hood character (great book by Raphael Sabatini, you should read it)).

It is kind of jacked up to think of a ride filled with dancing and singing Al Quida animatronics while guests go by laughing and thinking "boy those Al Quida guys are quite the characters!"
 

NadieMasK2

Active Member
Here's how I see it:

When I was a kid, we acted out Star Wars scenes. Sometimes I was a Jedi, other times I was Darth Vader or a Storm trooper. I didn't grow up thinking I could smite people with a light saber if I didn't like them (although I admit to trying to use the force to get my way :ROFLOL: ). It was imaginative play, fantasy, which is what Pirates are to my kids. To them it isn't reality, just good old fashioned imaginative play, which I would rather them do anyday over sitting in front of a TV.
 

Kristamouse

Well-Known Member
As a somewhat new Mom, my oldest being 3 year old boy and my other a 2 year old little girl I can see what the OP is asking. Before I had my kids I would look at parents who let thier kids cry though Krogers or have pacifier until they were 7 and swear I would not do that. Now my kids frequently scream and cry through Kroger (b/c Mom won't open the Nemo fruit snacks) and I keep shopping. Now getting to the point, my son, according to him is a Pirate because he says, "Arggh Matie" and me, I laugh. Why because something has inspired his imagaintion and it is really cute. When he is old enough to know what real pirates did/do he will be old enough to know that is wrong. Why? Because his father and I taught him right from wrong. Though sadly, he will probally still think it is cool to not bathe or brush his teeth...
 
DD(13) and I can't wait to see the refurbed POTC, but we are also still checking to see that the hairy leg is still there!!

Hooray for the hairy leg!!! I just had to respond...this is the part of the ride where I always scooch down in the boat...that thing creeps me out and I love it. Nevertheless, it didn't stop me from describing it to the little ones well in advance of our trip...and they all scooched down with me when we rode. So glad someone else can relate!

Back on topic, really interesting thread! I totally get where the OP is coming from, because I've often caught myself singing "yo ho, yo ho..." and then realizing, heck no, I don't want a pirate's life. But I agree with most that it is harmless role playing...someone referenced Star Wars...back in the dark ages I played Star Wars constantly. As others have said, it's what we teach our kids that make the difference.
 

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