peter11435
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t say the average zoo-goer does much of anything to help. But every little bit helps. The millions donated through DWCF and others like it would likely not have existed if not for DAK and places like it.
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Pinioned birds at Animal Kingdom—UPDATED
- Thread starter LittleBuford
- Start date
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
I provided a reason why some places pinion, yet you ignored that. Your links suggested they were pinioned but not how routine it is or why they choose it currently. If the bird is stressed during clipping *and* they are not able to survive in the wild, I don't have issues with doing it, because again I trust real and true animal keepers to know what is right, vs just us average people arguing things.
This is what I fail to understand about your arguments. You get presented with facts and you dismiss as opinions. I get you are looking out for animals, but I think sometimes we think we understand things when those with actual experience know more than we do. It's like someone I know who was with a certain group was all against milking cows and gave me "facts" about it. I can tell you that my family farm would show every "fact" to be wrong. Sometimes we have to trust those with real working knowledge.
I am curious though, are you for or against rescuing animals like cats? One post made it seem like you were against it but later you seemed for it. Just curious.
Not any longer. It's considered inhumane by pretty much all I know (and I'm big with rescue groups). I even sadly know someone who will never adopt a cat that ever was declawed. No fault of the cat IMO, but they don't want to worry about any negatives.
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If this is true, then it's certainly an argument in favour of zoos. Again, I'd like to think the same could be achieved with threatened species only.
Gitson Shiggles
There was me, that is Mickey, and my three droogs
If your local zoo has flamingos, it is very likely they are pinioned.
peter11435
Well-Known Member
It’s possible it could be. But I think there are certain species that customers expect to see when visiting a zoo. I’m not sure a zoo can be financially viable (many are not already) without including those expected species.
Unless I missed it (and forgive me if I did--this thread has grown very quickly indeed), you didn't present me with any facts with regard to pinioning, merely the claim that it's less stressful than clipping. SorcererMC and I have both provided links to show that there are those in the zoo community itself that consider the practice undesirable and unnecessary. I'm not advancing some new or radical position here.
I thought I was very clear on this. I am against the pet industry (the breeding and selling of domestic animals) but a passionate supporter of adopting rescue animals. There are plenty of beautiful cats and dogs already in this world, and so many of them are in need of loving homes.
This is very good to hear.
This is a bigger question for zoos at large. I don't think it pertains to AK in particular.
zero creativity
Active Member
I'm impressed by the legos and the movie collection.I am very guilty of projecting humanity onto mine. My husband has to keep telling me that they don't know what I am saying....
Sitting there talking to the little guy and he just looks at me
yoda_5729
Well-Known Member
I tend to lean more towards what the animal experts and doctors, many with degrees in the given subject matter are feeling on a topic in terms of the effect on animals. In our growing society, some ecosystems are being swallowed up entirely, or due to changes in climate, what once was hospitable, is no longer capable for animals. In the case of flamingos, I can't ever recall from my own experience, remembering seeing them indoors. When a flamingo decides to fly, they can really fly. That may make aviaries difficult for that given group of species. Looking at a flamingo, or birds of that size, I'm not sure what could be the best practice in terms of handling them. Whereas I know netting can be used, the bird could just as easily get it's wing caught in the netting, like manta rays do in the ocean. As weird, and possibly wrong as it might sound, it's possible they don't want it to fly, because it would get injured, and possibly in a far more life altering way. The debate will be, if this is the best we can do, should we continue to keep soaring birds in captivity. That's a question for society though.
Animal Kingdom does have some of the obvious headlining animals, however it also is lacking quite a gfew as well. Some I'm sure simply due to the idea they don't think they'd be able to properly care for one. AK has no species of bear, and until recently, had no dogs until the painted dogs were added. I don't think Disney has any poisonous snakes. Marine life is basically only seen at the Seas. Lots of zoos have animals that were injured in the wild an are unable to go back into the wild. Some were born there. Lots of zoos have far more animals behind the scenes then they do actively on display, as sometimes they are caring for animals that aren't too photogenic, or active during the day, but are still looking out for them. Some have them for breeding programs, but only a few are on display as the others are off exhibit.
I was not really aware this practice took place, but it may be the only way to have soaring birds that are capable of large scale flight in captivity. That being said, if other options were presented, and they were better for the bird, I would hope we'd as a society lean towards that. Earlier I talked of the need for zoos and aquariums, and I think it is true, as for many, it actually is the first time they can see an animal like that. The sad reality though is, for animals that are possibly every bit as endangered, society doesn't band together to help out, because they don't even know such a thing exists. They know of the headliner from a given family, like they'll know what a monkey is, and maybe even some species, but not the majorly obscure forms of monkey. I think though zoos help with that, as at one's local zoo, they can be exposed to animals that other places might not. a gharial is a member of the alligator/crocodile family, and has needlenose snout for fishing. Sadly, people haven't been exposed to it enough to even know it exists, to have the drive to save it.
My last paragraph was a bit of a jumble, but staying on the topic of flamingos, there are multiple species of flamingos in the world. Much of society looks at flamingos as all being the same, so whereas, (I'm making this part up, I'm not looking it up) for the sake of discussion lets say the lesser flamingo was massively endangered, but the greater flamingo wasn't. As long as one iconic version of the flamingo exists, to a lot of people, it's fine. That's not true, or accurate, but it is a view some have, as they oversimplify the animal kingdom. As long as the common gecko, chameleon, komodo dragon, and a handful of others are okay, most assume all lizards are fine. That of course isn't the case, but the general public doesn't even know the other lizards, so sadly there isn't much for them to miss.
Animal Kingdom does have some of the obvious headlining animals, however it also is lacking quite a gfew as well. Some I'm sure simply due to the idea they don't think they'd be able to properly care for one. AK has no species of bear, and until recently, had no dogs until the painted dogs were added. I don't think Disney has any poisonous snakes. Marine life is basically only seen at the Seas. Lots of zoos have animals that were injured in the wild an are unable to go back into the wild. Some were born there. Lots of zoos have far more animals behind the scenes then they do actively on display, as sometimes they are caring for animals that aren't too photogenic, or active during the day, but are still looking out for them. Some have them for breeding programs, but only a few are on display as the others are off exhibit.
I was not really aware this practice took place, but it may be the only way to have soaring birds that are capable of large scale flight in captivity. That being said, if other options were presented, and they were better for the bird, I would hope we'd as a society lean towards that. Earlier I talked of the need for zoos and aquariums, and I think it is true, as for many, it actually is the first time they can see an animal like that. The sad reality though is, for animals that are possibly every bit as endangered, society doesn't band together to help out, because they don't even know such a thing exists. They know of the headliner from a given family, like they'll know what a monkey is, and maybe even some species, but not the majorly obscure forms of monkey. I think though zoos help with that, as at one's local zoo, they can be exposed to animals that other places might not. a gharial is a member of the alligator/crocodile family, and has needlenose snout for fishing. Sadly, people haven't been exposed to it enough to even know it exists, to have the drive to save it.
My last paragraph was a bit of a jumble, but staying on the topic of flamingos, there are multiple species of flamingos in the world. Much of society looks at flamingos as all being the same, so whereas, (I'm making this part up, I'm not looking it up) for the sake of discussion lets say the lesser flamingo was massively endangered, but the greater flamingo wasn't. As long as one iconic version of the flamingo exists, to a lot of people, it's fine. That's not true, or accurate, but it is a view some have, as they oversimplify the animal kingdom. As long as the common gecko, chameleon, komodo dragon, and a handful of others are okay, most assume all lizards are fine. That of course isn't the case, but the general public doesn't even know the other lizards, so sadly there isn't much for them to miss.
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dieboy
Active Member
The majority of animals at zoos are rescues. Allot of the animals are also on endangered species lists, and are being protected for a reason. I don't understand why people can't wrap their mind around that. They also use the time they are in captivity to study their habits, and learn from them, for the betterment of their species in the wild.
Yes there are cruddy zoos. but they are fairly few and far between.
Personally, i'd save your breathe for all the traveling circuses with exotic animals or 'private zoos' vs a place that actively takes care of its residents. Allot of them live a much better life than they would in the wild and some live better lives than some humans.
Just my thoughts, and i'm honestly not even going to stop back to this thread, so quote away, and respond, but i won't see it. Its a non issue for me, unless the place is run down and in the dumps, or the animals are obviously being neglected.
Yes there are cruddy zoos. but they are fairly few and far between.
Personally, i'd save your breathe for all the traveling circuses with exotic animals or 'private zoos' vs a place that actively takes care of its residents. Allot of them live a much better life than they would in the wild and some live better lives than some humans.
Just my thoughts, and i'm honestly not even going to stop back to this thread, so quote away, and respond, but i won't see it. Its a non issue for me, unless the place is run down and in the dumps, or the animals are obviously being neglected.
This isn't true, as even pro-zoo sources will demonstrate:
http://zoos.media/zoo-facts/where-do-zoo-animals-come-from/?lang=en
http://leerichardsonzoo.org/News/2009/May_22_09.pdf
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Actually you weren't clear which is why I asked. You made it seem like taking my cats from off the street was a bad thing.
I have a feeling that your idea of what you will take as facts is not quite the same as what I will take. I will take what animal s experts tell me that they have witnessed to be a fact. I can find you links to other bird Keepers that will say that at times clipping will be far more stressful for a bird then pinioning. However, I think you're not going to take that as a fact, you're just going to take it as an opinion. So, in the end what I think is a fact and what you think is an opinion will Clash so no matter what I say you will not take. I appreciate your love of animals, but you are coming off as quite condescending towards people trying to have discussions with facts that don't match your own.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
They are also animals born in capativity, for reasons which you may not be aware of.
If you want to see the ugliest-cutest thing ever.. google Fiona (the hippo). She’s awesome.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Sign up for this...ask questions...they will tell you interesting stuff 
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/animal-kingdom/wild-africa-trek/
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/animal-kingdom/wild-africa-trek/
They are not rescues. That was the only point I was making.
The last post written by Gitson Shiggles included new and relevant information. It's a shame it's gone.
Sonconato
Well-Known Member
I personally think that zoos like AK and the like are important as they provide many services behind the scenes. For instance, an educator at AK once told me that exotic tarantula eggs were being smuggled on a plane through plastic straws. AK took some of these tarantulas and are caring for them properly. Illegal animal trade is very common these days, as I learned today that young birds were also being smuggled inside hair rollers recently.
Another instance is of an abandoned walrus from Alaska who was brought to SeaWorld. He was so young that he was bottle-fed on a 24-hour basis much like you would a human baby. He has since been introduced to the resident walruses and is doing quite well. My point is that proper zoos are very important as they do many things that the general public does not know about.
Another instance is of an abandoned walrus from Alaska who was brought to SeaWorld. He was so young that he was bottle-fed on a 24-hour basis much like you would a human baby. He has since been introduced to the resident walruses and is doing quite well. My point is that proper zoos are very important as they do many things that the general public does not know about.
Sign up for this...ask questions...they will tell you interesting stuff
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/animal-kingdom/wild-africa-trek/
I'm no longer there, and I wouldn't want to ruin others' experience of the tour by asking such questions in larger company. As I said, I will update the thread if I hear back from anyone at AK.