Pinioned birds at Animal Kingdom—UPDATED

[SorcererMC]

I’m not arguing anything especially radical.

You're really not suggesting anything radical at all. I've been a member of my local zoo, and I love AK. I don't know how anyone can pay for that without questioning or wondering about the conditions for the animals' welfare, including modern zoological practices.
I would be curious as to the response you receive from AK, if any.

 

[LittleBuford]

Why do you feel sorry for the animals?

Because I don’t like to see animals kept in captivity and put on display. It’s a personal thing, and I know that most people don’t agree with me, which is why my post focused on the more specific issue of pinioning.

 

[LittleBuford]

You're really not suggesting anything radical at all. I've been a member of my local zoo, and I love AK. I don't know how anyone can pay for that without questioning or wondering about the conditions for the animals' welfare, include modern zoological practices.
I would be curious as to the response you receive from AK, if any.

I will be sure to update the thread if and when I get a response. Thank you again for your input.

 

[21stamps]

You're really not suggesting anything radical at all. I've been a member of my local zoo, and I love AK. I don't know how anyone can pay for that without questioning or wondering about the conditions for the animals' welfare, include modern zoological practices.
I would be curious as to the response you receive from AK, if any.

I’m a member of my local zoo because of their practices, not in spite of them.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

Because I don’t like to see animals kept in captivity and put on display. It’s a personal thing, and I know that most people don’t agree with me, which is why my post focused on the more specific issue of pinioning.

I would question how you would then raise the funds for conservation with no paying guest zoo's. The average person wants to see something for their buck. Maybe it should only be endagered species on dislay ( a different argument) but you still need the investment from somewhere .

 

[LittleBuford]

Also, can you tell me how this is a zoo problem, how you know that this is a common practice, and a list of which zoos partake in such a practice?

From the website of the American Association of Zoo Veterinarians:

“It is encouraged to keep flamingos full flighted when the appropriate facilities are available and hopefully more zoos will be account for this when designing facilities for flamingos in the future. Pinioning is the most common deflighting method performed on flamingos maintained in outdoor enclosures. Successful pinioning has been performed on chicks from 2-10 days of age. Refer to the Reproduction chapter for further details on animal husbandry issues related to pinioning. The procedure may be performed with simple crushing of the tissue with a hemostat and cutting with a scissors or scalpel. The incision may be closed with tissue glue. General anesthesia is needed if the procedure is performed on adult sized flamingos. For traditional pinioning, the site of amputation is determined by finding the alula and cutting the bone just distal to the base of this structure. Remove the flight feathers at the amputation site. Other feathers should be plucked and the skin surgically prepared. A circumferential skin incision is made, leaving enough skin to close the wound. The major vessels in this area are between the metacarpal bones, which are fused at either end. A figure eight transfixation ligature is placed loosely around the proximal ends of the bone. The bones are amputated with a sharp chisel, a bone cutting forceps or a giggly wire. Once the distal end of the metacarpal bones is freed, the ligature is tightened. The skin is pulled into place to cover the end of the bones and sutured closed. A light pressure bandage is applied to assist in controlling hemorrhage. The bird usually removes the bandage in a day or two. Amputating less bone (i.e. long pinioning) may improve reproductive success, but it is still unclear if some birds are completely inhibited from flight. Tendonectomy is not recommended because it is more invasive and in some countries is forbidden. Birds often develop droopy wings and the procedure frequently does not prevent the flamingo from flying.”

https://www.aazv.org/page/flamingo_health_med_?

 

[Sans Souci]

You mean you’ve never crossed a pack of feral chihuahuas?

 

[LittleBuford]

I would question how you would then raise the funds for conservation with no paying guest zoo's. The average person wants to see something for their buck. Maybe it should only be endagered species on dislay ( a different argument) but you still need the investment from somewhere .

This is one of the better arguments I’ve encountered in favour of zoos. As far as AK goes, however, Disney would have no trouble attracting guests if they phased out their populations of unendangered animals. Pandora is evidence enough that attractions, not animals, are the real draw for people who visit WDW.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t think pinioning is a current issue. I still don’t even know if the bird you’re referring to was actually clipped or pinioned.. do you know?

You can read my posts; I’m not going to repeat myself.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

This is one of the better arguments I’ve encountered in favour of zoos. As far as AK goes, however, Disney would have no trouble attracting guests if they phased out their populations of unendangered animals. Pandora is evidence enough that attractions, not animals, are the real draw for people who visit WDW.

Indeed i think that is where Durrell scores so well as it is primerally endagered species there. No it isn't 100% perfect but it is pretty good.

 

[21stamps]

From the website of the American Association of Zoo Veterinarians:

“It is encouraged to keep flamingos full flighted when the appropriate facilities are available and hopefully more zoos will be account for this when designing facilities for flamingos in the future. Pinioning is the most common deflighting method performed on flamingos maintained in outdoor enclosures. Successful pinioning has been performed on chicks from 2-10 days of age. Refer to the Reproduction chapter for further details on animal husbandry issues related to pinioning. The procedure may be performed with simple crushing of the tissue with a hemostat and cutting with a scissors or scalpel. The incision may be closed with tissue glue. General anesthesia is needed if the procedure is performed on adult sized flamingos. For traditional pinioning, the site of amputation is determined by finding the alula and cutting the bone just distal to the base of this structure. Remove the flight feathers at the amputation site. Other feathers should be plucked and the skin surgically prepared. A circumferential skin incision is made, leaving enough skin to close the wound. The major vessels in this area are between the metacarpal bones, which are fused at either end. A figure eight transfixation ligature is placed loosely around the proximal ends of the bone. The bones are amputated with a sharp chisel, a bone cutting forceps or a giggly wire. Once the distal end of the metacarpal bones is freed, the ligature is tightened. The skin is pulled into place to cover the end of the bones and sutured closed. A light pressure bandage is applied to assist in controlling hemorrhage. The bird usually removes the bandage in a day or two. Amputating less bone (i.e. long pinioning) may improve reproductive success, but it is still unclear if some birds are completely inhibited from flight. Tendonectomy is not recommended because it is more invasive and in some countries is forbidden. Birds often develop droopy wings and the procedure frequently does not prevent the flamingo from flying.”

https://www.aazv.org/page/flamingo_health_med_?

This doesn’t answer my question, can you list the zoos who currently do this? How many? Is AK included?

 

[LittleBuford]

This doesn’t answer my question, can you list the zoos who currently do this? How many? Is AK included?

No, I cannot list the zoos. I thought the point of your question was to challenge me on the prevalence of the practice. I have provided a link that proves it is widespread, at least as far as flamingoes are concerned.

As for Disney, I have already twice posted a link that shows that most of the birds at Animal Kingdom Lodge are pinioned. The same link mentions other American zoos with pinioned birds. You can find the message here in this thread; I’m not going to post the same information yet again.

 

[LittleBuford]

AK clips wings. He said it already.

In some cases clipped, in others pinioned.

 

[peter11435]

This is one of the better arguments I’ve encountered in favour of zoos. As far as AK goes, however, Disney would have no trouble attracting guests if they phased out their populations of unendangered animals. Pandora is evidence enough that attractions, not animals, are the real draw for people who visit WDW.

Just because a species isn’t endangered today doesn’t meant it won’t be tomorrow. Humans have a habit of not caring much for things that don’t directly affect them. Exposing them to animals they otherwise may never see will inspire them to care more about them. People are well aware of the challenges animals in the wild face but few of them open their wallets to support conservation efforts until they spend a day at a facility like Disney’s Animal Kingdom. Not to mention all the guests young and old who are inspired to pursue careers advancing conservation initiatives.

 

[LittleBuford]

Just because a species isn’t endangered today doesn’t meant it won’t be tomorrow. Humans have a habit of not caring much for things that don’t directly affect them. Exposing them to animals they otherwise may never see will inspire them to care more about them. People are well aware of the challenges animals in the wild face but few of them open their wallets to support conservation efforts until they spend a day at a facility like Disney’s Animal Kingdom. Not to mention all the guests young and old who are inspired to pursue careers advancing conservation initiatives.

My own preference would be for such parks to move towards becoming sanctuaries for endangered and threatened species only. Guests would still be exposed to animals, and the conservation angle could be more effectively and directly addressed.

 

[peter11435]

My own preference would be for such parks to move towards becoming sanctuaries for endangered and threatened species only. Guests would still be exposed to animals, and the conservation angle could be more effectively and directly addressed.

But as I said species that aren’t endangered today may soon be if we are not careful. Also there are many success stories of species that are no longer endangered. Showcasing them can show guests the positive results they can be a part of.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

My own preference would be for such parks to move towards becoming sanctuaries for endangered and threatened species only. Guests would still be exposed to animals, and the conservation angle could be more effectively and directly addressed.

I think most good "zoo' " are heading more in that direction which we both agree is a good thing.

 

[LittleBuford]

But as I said species that aren’t endangered today may soon be if we are not careful. Also there are many success stories of species that are no longer endangered. Showcasing them can show guests the positive results they can be a part of.

Preemptively keeping animals captive because they may one day become endangered strikes me as a rather convoluted justification. But I respect your opinion and wish I shared your optimistic view of the average zoo-goer.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think most good "zoo' " are heading more in that direction which we both agree is a good thing.

See, common ground was possible.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

See, common ground was possible.