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Pinioned birds at Animal Kingdom—UPDATED

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
The Disney Conservation Fund does a lot of great work. AK is partly an extension of that. The research that is done there on all types of species, even through breeding, is quite significant and gives humans a better understanding of how to coexist with these animals and support their natural habitats. And the awareness they raise through the park is substantial, and it obviously helps to fund some of the conservation efforts. It inspires people. If a few birds need to have their wings clipped to make this all work, I am fine with that. The upside is so much more than any negative. But if animals being held in captivity "needlessly" ruffles your feathers, this probably isn't the park for you. I would see no reason to spend money there if I felt that way.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
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Good point. We should just let them all die and not take them in and care for them until no others are born in captivity.

Merry Christmas :)
Please don't put absurd words into my mouth. If you have a serious point to make, make it, but don't misrepresent my position.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
We are talking about Disney and Animal Kingdom. You can talk to them or visit the center where they save and take care of animals that wouldn't survive in wild for various reasons - not just born in captivity.
I’ll agree, but also add that we can include most zoos in this context as well.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Please don't put absurd words into my mouth. If you have a serious point to make, make it, but don't misrepresent my position.
In fairness, the point of this thread is absurd.

Actually, maybe that was a bit harsh. The topic itself is one thing, I can understand questioning it.. being told over and over again about conservation and practices, while continuing to pull articles with examples of practices from decades ago.. without having talked to someone knowledgeable at AK to find out about the bird in question.. but continuing to makes assumptions, that part is all a little absurd.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If a few birds have their wings clipped to make this all work, I am fine with that. The upside is so much more than any negative.
While I don't agree with you, at least your position is grounded in reality rather than some romantic notion of Animal Kingdom magic. Many who've posted in this thread were horrified by the suggestion that Disney pinioned its birds and never followed up after I proved that it does.

I would see no reason to spend money there if I felt that way.
Alas, there is no way to stop my money going to Animal Kingdom if I spend anything with Disney. As I said earlier, that's my own ethical quandary.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Actually, maybe that was a bit harsh. The topic itself is one thing, I can understand questioning it.. being told over and over again about conservation and practices, while continuing to pull articles with examples of practices from decades ago.. without having talked to someone knowledgeable at AK to find out about the bird in question.. but continuing to makes assumptions, that part is all a little absurd.
While it has grown into something I never intended, the thread is supposed to be about pinioning, which remains a standard practice in zoos today. I am not talking about something that no longer happens.
 

SirWillow

Well-Known Member
Skipped over most of the thread as I can imagine most of what is in it.

I'm always slightly amused at those that "hate zoos, feel sorry for the animals, and think they are a horrible creation." The facts are zoos have been far and away the major source of research into animals and their life. They've also been a major reason that many animals that otherwise would be extinct not only exist but have been rehabilitated and reintroduced into the wild.

Check out the California Condor, scimitar horned oryx, arabian oryx, Przewalki's Horse, bongo, Regent honeyeater, golden lion tamaryn, amur leopard, oh, they also had a huge impact in bringing the manatee back as well as helping to save endangered rhinos, tigers and more in the wild.

That doesn't even begin to touch upon their role in education, exposure, research, and influencing conservation and saving animals throughout the world.

I think those that think zoos are harmful should actually do a bit of research, and maybe spend a day or two with the keepers. It would likely change their impressions as they realize the care, love, concern that goes into taking care of the animals- and yes, keeping them happy, and realize the incredibly valuable role they play in wildlife conservation.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Well, after the first 4 pages were pretty much exactly what I was expecting, as were the comments on the last page (including yours. hehe) So I didn't see any real reason to read the other 6 which I'm quite confident continued the same way... :)
This thread is centred on my concerns about a particular practice--pinioning--a practice that the AZA itself deems undesirable and recommends that zoos move away from. Neither of your comments mentions pinioning; like so many others who've posted here, you instead launch into a general defence of zoos, which is really a topic for another thread.
 
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SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
While it has grown into something I never intended, the thread is supposed to be about pinioning, which remains a standard practice in zoos today. I am not talking about something that no longer happens.
Most of the responses to your initial post are either straw men or patently absurd in their attempts to suggest you have some nefarious intent. I must have had the advantage of personal experience because many years ago, as a chaperone for a field trip, I had the good fortune of touring the zoo with the director. The kids wanted to know why the flamingos didn't just fly away, and he told them in a matter of fact manner that they can't fly because their wings have been clipped, in reference to pinioning. (Alas, they were more concerned about tigers getting out of their exhibits).
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Most of the responses to your initial post are either straw men or patently absurd in their attempts to suggest you have some nefarious intent. I must have had the advantage of personal experience because many years ago, as a chaperone for a field trip, I had the good fortune of touring the zoo with the director. The kids wanted to know why the flamingos didn't just fly away, and he told them in a matter of fact manner that they can't fly because their wings have been clipped, in reference to pinioning. (Alas, they were more concerned about tigers getting out of their exhibits).
Thank you. And as the thread grows longer and fewer people actually read all the posts, the same points are being repeated again and again. I’m grateful for posts like yours that get things back on topic.
 

FCivish3

Member
Good point. We should just let them all die and not take them in and care for them until no others are born in captivity.

Merry Christmas :)
I am reminded of the story about two otters that were saved from an oil spill. They swam through the surface oil until they were covered in toxic goo, so nice people who loved animals took them to a shelter and spent a long time cleaning them, and then they fed and cared for them for a while, until they could get their health back. Then one day, they took the two otters down to the ocean to let them go free. Everyone was so happy to see the otters frolicking in the water and delightfully swimming away. Until a Killer Whale came up and ate them both.

I love animals. As far as I am concerned, animals are people, too. But it is a law of nature that of ALL of the offspring that an animal might produce during their entire life, all of the children - whether it is sea turtles that produce dozens from every single nest, or wild cats, or monkeys, or deer or dolphins - all of those children die, before they can reproduce, except for 1 single one, ON AN AVERAGE. If it were not so, then the animal population would go up and up until they overran their environment, and died of starvation. Nature is harsh, violent and difficult. Animals in our care should always be treated with the utmost kindness and concern. But I'm not going to feel sorry for animals that are given food and shelter and care by us, compared to what they receive in the wild. Even if it is more restricting than running free.
 
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Mr Ferret 88

instagram mrferret888
Premium Member
While it has grown into something I never intended, the thread is supposed to be about pinioning, which remains a standard practice in zoos today. I am not talking about something that no longer happens.
I messaged my "local" zoo (Durrell wildlife trust), re the flamingos they have and received a suprising response saying they do practice pinioning. Whilst i agree this practice seems wrong to me i will still support the place as a whole as the good work towards conservation and critically endagered animals outweigh the bad. Not saying my view is right ,it's just my view.
 
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