PHOTOS - Building demolition work now in progress at Pleasure Island

[jt04]

Yes we can see how big a failure City Walk has been promoting with a club based entertainment area.

Must be spring already if thats the first cuckoo.

The shops at CW don't do all that well. Which is why they are constantly changing them. Also, the theme parks direct all their traffic through the CW area which was brilliant of Universal but not an option Disney had. Or more likely one they wanted to avoid.

DTD is completely dependent on ground transportation. You don't just happen to find yourself passing through the area on a journey somewhere else.That is a major difference. Apples/Oranges.

 

[devoy1701]

There is nothing they could do. Many claim PI was 'profitable' to the end. But what they fail to mention is the impact PI had on profit in other venues at DTD. It was not a 'user friendly' configuration but it also hurt other businesses. I believe to the point that any profit it made was ultimately lost in other areas.

As DTD reimagines itself I am sure you will see the amazing results that a non-club based business model will provide for Disney's DTD. No doubt about it.

Most people who are out that late don't want to just eat or shop, they want to be doing something fun. PI was operating when most of the rest of resort was getting ready to shut down. It's quite frustrating (especially on MK hard ticket nights) when all of the theme parks are closed by 9PM and there is quite literally nothing to do on property if you don't want to shop. We currently head over to Jellyrolls whenever we're looking for something to do past 9PM...i'm not exactly in the shopping/dining mindset anymore at that hour. I really hope we see a new Adventurer's Club and some other like venues pop up in additioni to the shops and restaurants of Hyperion Wharf.

Yes we can see how big a failure City Walk has been promoting with a club based entertainment area.

Must be spring already if thats the first cuckoo.

:king:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

You dont half talk bollocks at times. Where would you be passing through to? Closed parks? The parking Lot.

And you were talking about clubs so comparing the night-life element rather than an overpriced made in China emporium is apples to apples is it not.
And last time I visited (an alien concept to you) Disney ran boats n buses to their location unlike Universal.

 

[lebeau]

Just to put jt's comments in perspective, his big idea for DTD was a waffle stand.

You're never gonna convince him that a strip mall run by third-parties is a poor substitute for a themed night-time entertainment complex run by Disney no matter how obvious that might be to the rest of us.

Although, his gloating over the demolition of something unique that was loved by many is galling. So, I guess there's no harm in calling him on his "bollocks" even if it won't lead anywhere.

 

[jt04]

Just to put jt's comments in perspective, his big idea for DTD was a waffle stand.

You're never gonna convince him that a strip mall run by third-parties is a poor substitute for a themed night-time entertainment complex run by Disney no matter how obvious that might be to the rest of us.

Although, his gloating over the demolition of something unique that was loved by many is galling. So, I guess there's no harm in calling him on his "bollocks" even if it won't lead anywhere.

Did someone say waffles? :slurp:


In a couple years it will all make sense. And I'm not gloating, I'm celebrating. :sohappy:

 

[menamechris]

There are definetly differences between CityWalk and DTD. A huge part of CityWalk's success is the local backing. CityWalk is 10 minutes up I-4 from downtown Orlando. This is huge. The nightlife in downtown Orlando is surprisingly small and lame, so many people just will take the extra few minutes to get to Universal. DTD, on the other hand is at least 25 minutes from downtown (without traffic, which there is usually quite a bit of). So although there may be some people who live close to Disney who may go to DTD, the lion's share of the locals will opt to go to CityWalk, simply bc it is closer and easier to get to. Not to mention, if you are young, drinking and club-hopping, you don't want to see families any more than they want to see you....

 

[lebeau]

Did someone say waffles? :slurp:

I do love waffles. On that, we agree.

In a couple years it will all make sense.

Come on, jt. Everyone around here knows you don't have any insider info. Zero. Zip. Nada.

*cough*minetrain*cough*

Why try to act like you have some kind of info the rest of us aren't privy to? We know better.

And I'm not gloating, I'm celebrating. :sohappy:

Tomato/to-mah-to.

Either way, this may not be the thread for "celebrating". Why not wait for your glorious wharf before you start the party?

 

[71jason]

There is nothing they could do. Many claim PI was 'profitable' to the end. But what they fail to mention is the impact PI had on profit in other venues at DTD.

PI was hugely profitable to the end. No idea if West Side shops and restuarants were or not, but if they were not, it was due to a lack of interest to consumers, not an inability to attract guests. The AMC has made a go of that location for 20 years now.

What about the impact PI had on other ventures throughout WDW? Banquet revenues are down 25% since PI closed--a lot of conventions used the clubs for private events. I think it's a reasonable conjecture that around 25% of convention hotel bookings are down as well. No wonder the discounting and and free dining have continued unabated.

In a couple years it will all make sense.

In a couple years, FLE will be open. We know what we will be in there. We've seen at least a dozen pieces of concept art. But all we've seen is two official pieces of art for Hyperion Wharf, and we still have yet to receive an official announcement of anything going in there. I find it hard to believe that if TDO knew what they were doing they wouldn't be crowing about it.

 

[menamechris]

In a couple years, FLE will be open. We know what we will be in there. We've seen at least a dozen pieces of concept art. But all we've seen is two official pieces of art for Hyperion Wharf, and we still have yet to receive an official announcement of anything going in there. I find it hard to believe that if TDO knew what they were doing they wouldn't be crowing about it.

My gut tells me we have yet to hear an announcement, because it will be less than exciting. I hope I am wrong. I would love to see Disney put in another dinner show there, maybe a wine bar, or how about nighttime cruises on the lake with entertainment since it will be a wharf? There are so many things that can do there. I would even love to see them open a separate (and obviously smaller) movie theatre that would run classic Disney movies. People would totally pay 5 bucks to take their kid to see Peter Pan, Cinderella, or even Toy Story on the big screen. And I would go to! It's just a question of how much money and creativity Disney decides this area will be worth..

 

[71jason]

It's just a question of how much money and creativity Disney decides this area will be worth..

The problem with most, if not all, of your suggestions (many of which would grab me, too)...the official line all along has been HW will be exclusively third party. That's why they put the former head of outsourcing in charge of it.

And if you're trying to attract business tenants, it's always easier if you have a signed anchor or two to show them.

 

[menamechris]

The problem with most, if not all, of your suggestions (many of which would grab me, too)...the official line all along has been HW will be exclusively third party. That's why they put the former head of outsourcing in charge of it.

And if you're trying to attract business tenants, it's always easier if you have a signed anchor or two to show them.

Well they will still have to be involved somehow with their little light show or whatever. In addition, I really don't think businesses are knocking down Disney's door (believe it or not) to pay a premium for a storefront that will be less than profitable. You can see this by the complete lack of real stores there now. A lot of them seem to be independent storefronts of (probably) rich people who just want the novelty of being located at DTD. Disney may have no choice but to provide more offerings themselves. Management is not stupid - the way things are at DTD is not working.

 

[devoy1701]

The problem with most, if not all, of your suggestions (many of which would grab me, too)...the official line all along has been HW will be exclusively third party. That's why they put the former head of outsourcing in charge of it.

And if you're trying to attract business tenants, it's always easier if you have a signed anchor or two to show them.

You're right.

Well they will still have to be involved somehow with their little light show or whatever. In addition, I really don't think businesses are knocking down Disney's door (believe it or not) to pay a premium for a storefront that will be less than profitable. You can see this by the complete lack of real stores there now. A lot of them seem to be independent storefronts of (probably) rich people who just want the novelty of being located at DTD. Disney may have no choice but to provide more offerings themselves. Management is not stupid - the way things are at DTD is not working.

You're right, too.

The think is people don't come to Walt Disney World for the chance to buy things from stores that they can shop at back at home. Or eat in restaurants that they can eat at back at home. We don't want 3rd party merchandise...high end or not...we want Disney exclusive merchandise (not mall Disney Story merchandise either) and Disney exclusive dining experiences.

 

[jt04]

There are definetly differences between CityWalk and DTD. A huge part of CityWalk's success is the local backing. CityWalk is 10 minutes up I-4 from downtown Orlando. This is huge. The nightlife in downtown Orlando is surprisingly small and lame, so many people just will take the extra few minutes to get to Universal. DTD, on the other hand is at least 25 minutes from downtown (without traffic, which there is usually quite a bit of). So although there may be some people who live close to Disney who may go to DTD, the lion's share of the locals will opt to go to CityWalk, simply bc it is closer and easier to get to. Not to mention, if you are young, drinking and club-hopping, you don't want to see families any more than they want to see you....

This is a great take on it. In the future CW and Orlando will be the centers of the local club scene. I fully expect Orlando to rebound especially since PI is not competing directly anymore. So many people here fail to see the big picture over and over and over again.

PI was hugely profitable to the end. No idea if West Side shops and restuarants were or not, but if they were not, it was due to a lack of interest to consumers, not an inability to attract guests. The AMC has made a go of that location for 20 years now.

Nobody claims it was "hugely profitable" in the final years. Nobody. The AMC has done fine but nowhere near as good as it will when DTD is 'complete'. It has never been pedestrian friendly and still isn't. But when HW changes that everything will take off. I just know it.

What about the impact PI had on other ventures throughout WDW? Banquet revenues are down 25% since PI closed--a lot of conventions used the clubs for private events. I think it's a reasonable conjecture that around 25% of convention hotel bookings are down as well. No wonder the discounting and and free dining have continued unabated.

All convention business is down with no real recovery in site. I am not going to go into why as I don't want the thread to get locked. Lets just call it 'failed economic theory'. Yes, I agree that PI may have brought people to other areas of DTD but I think it will soon be proven that it was keeping far more people away. HW will create a whole new dynamic that DTD has never enjoyed.

In a couple years, FLE will be open. We know what we will be in there. We've seen at least a dozen pieces of concept art. But all we've seen is two official pieces of art for Hyperion Wharf, and we still have yet to receive an official announcement of anything going in there. I find it hard to believe that if TDO knew what they were doing they wouldn't be crowing about it.

We will see. Possibly they have learned from the FLE leak. Usually when projects stall everything stops. It does not appear HW is on hold. In fact the waterside park is supposed to be installed in the next view months. So we will know soon enough.

 

[jakeman]

The think is people don't come to Walt Disney World for the chance to buy things from stores that they can shop at back at home. Or eat in restaurants that they can eat at back at home. We don't want 3rd party merchandise...high end or not...we want Disney exclusive merchandise (not mall Disney Story merchandise either) and Disney exclusive dining experiences.

CityWalk is made of mostly 3rd parties.

Heck they even have a Burger King and a Moe's.

I don't think it is necessarily the 3rd parties that are bad. It just has to be something at least somewhat unique.

 

[menamechris]

CityWalk is made of mostly 3rd parties.

Heck they even have a Burger King and a Moe's.

I don't think it is necessarily the 3rd parties that are bad. It just has to be something at least somewhat unique.

I agree with that. What DTD seems to be lacking is mass appeal right now. Geez, the massive Virgin Megastore has been turned into a place where you can build a toy truck. Seriously?!? The only excuse for that can be lack of interest from other businesses who could fill that space. I seriously don't have a problem with outsourcing to an extent, but something is happening that companies aren't interested. I am not sure what Disney's plan is, since they have trouble filling the space that is actually open now at DTD.

 

[jt04]

I agree with that. What DTD seems to be lacking is mass appeal right now. Geez, the massive Virgin Megastore has been turned into a place where you can build a toy truck. Seriously?!? The only excuse for that can be lack of interest from other businesses who could fill that space. I seriously don't have a problem with outsourcing to an extent, but something is happening that companies aren't interested. I am not sure what Disney's plan is, since they have trouble filling the space that is actually open now at DTD.

It is quite possible Disney has their own plan for that space. What space is open they can't fill?:shrug:

 

[menamechris]

It is quite possible Disney has their own plan for that space. What space is open they can't fill?:shrug:

I give Disney credit where it is due, but there is no way they have plans they are holding off on for what will be 5 years. They could get a real good business in there for a 2 year lease, and then opt not to renew when they are ready to use it. My assumption is that rent is on a sliding scale for a lot of these businesses, so that there aren't an abundance of empty spaces. I am not saying DTD is a ghost town, but you can't tell me Disney wouldn't love to have thriving shops and eateries there, as opposed to the odd trinket shops and half-empty restaurants. It's turned into like a bad arts and crafts festival...

 

[devoy1701]

CityWalk is made of mostly 3rd parties.

Heck they even have a Burger King and a Moe's.

I don't think it is necessarily the 3rd parties that are bad. It just has to be something at least somewhat unique.

But to the point made earlier, CityWalk is also/moreso a destination for locals living in the area to hang out whereas Downtown Disney is focused mainly on the vacationing population it already has. To those local visitors 3rd party everyday restaurants might be ok and or preferred than a more higher priced resort specific restaurant and matching merchandise. I just don't think that's what most Disney vacationers are looking for.

 

[jt04]

I give Disney credit where it is due, but there is no way they have plans they are holding off on for what will be 5 years. They could get a real good business in there for a 2 year lease, and then opt not to renew when they are ready to use it. My assumption is that rent is on a sliding scale for a lot of these businesses, so that there aren't an abundance of empty spaces.

We will know soon enough as HW is proceeding full steam ahead. You make a lot of assumptions. But I don't see any exodus from DTD. I only see a new offering every other month or so. And they are clearing huge plots of land for more.

 

[menamechris]

We will know soon enough as HW is proceeding full steam ahead. You make a lot of assumptions. But I don't see any exodus from DTD. I only see a new offering every other month or so. And they are clearing huge plots of land for more.

I hope you are right. But so far.. :snore: