Parking going up to $14

[jakeman]

Disney's transportation is free to all guests. Is it unethical to use it simply to avoid paying for parking? Maybe. Is it unethical for Disney to pay its workers a wage that has some living in cars? Or lay off two members of a family, so their stock looks better? Um ... yeah, I'd say so.

Irrelevant. The debatable ethical actions of a corporation does not absolve the individual of their requirement to act in a responsible manner.

But thank you again for another off topic rant.

 

[WDW1974]

Irrelevant. The debatable ethical actions of a corporation does not absolve the individual of their requirement to act in a responsible manner.

But thank you again for another off topic rant.

No, it's not irrelevant at all. In an era where everyone in Big Business and government seems to be taking advantage of the individual, one must be crazy to believe individuals shouldn't also try and play the same game and take advantage of 'da man'.

You seriously remind me of one of the talking heads on FOX or CNBC who believe there should be one set of rules for corporations (which break them anyway) and another set for the peasants. And, rest assured, you're exactly the kind of consumer Disney wants in 2009.

And thank you for the oh-so-typical retort that individuals should be held to higher standards than corporations. That someone who parks at DD, where parking is free, and then takes Disney transport, which is also free, elsewhere and winds up at a park is somehow a bad person and defrauding Disney of a parking fee.

I am not advocating people doing anything illegal or breaking even any rules of TWDC. I am saying there are legit ways people can avoid parking fees.

I am sure TWDC frowns upon them, which really is of no moment to me. If they have an issue with loopholes then by all means, let them spend the money to close them. Let them also guard the drink refill counters to make sure no one refills a cup they bought at 2:35 p.m. at 6 p.m. ... And parking is very simple. You want to prevent anyone from parking at DD or a resort and taking a bus to a park? All you need to do is have driver's check IDs when folks get on a bus and place signs prominently saying 'WDW bus transportation is for WDW resort guests exclusively. Please show ID for transport.' There was a time when this was done. And parking cost a fraction of what it does now.

There's a reason why they don't. A few ... the biggest is they don't care, so why the hell should you?

Bottom line is there is no rule or policy that forces anyone to park in a Disney main lot to access the parks. Even with my AP, which gives me free parking, other than DAK I almost never use the main lots. I'd rather take a boat or monorail to MK or EPCOT. Of course, I usually spend money at the resort I'm parking at anyway ... I doubt the Food and Beverage manager at the Poly cares about me taking an empty spot (I wouldn't park there on Christmas or July 4th) and leaving my car there when I go to the MK for five hours after I just dropped $40 at the Tambu Lounge or $25 at Captain Cook's or both.

The fact that the morality police like yourself try and nail everyone with your personal views of what's right and wrong is akin to people hoisting their religious or political beliefs on others.

There's right and wrong. Legal and illegal. Then there are situations like this when only the most management apologists decide what should be right for others.

 

[Dj Corona]

I don't see where's it's a "silly comparison" to compare what parking costs going to a sporting event to Disney, because A) The parking IS rediculous in most cases going to a sporting event that's just a little over three hours long, compared to the same price, (or even less) for all day parking, and B) When you add on what it costs most times for just two people, let alone an entire family to go to a football game nowadays, it's just as close tospending a day in Disney. However, I believe this point has been brought up several different times during this thread, already.

 

[TURKEY]

Speaking of parking. http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200910/1490/

 

[jakeman]

No, it's not irrelevant at all. In an era where everyone in Big Business and government seems to be taking advantage of the individual, one must be crazy to believe individuals shouldn't also try and play the same game and take advantage of 'da man'.

Because, if everyone else is doing it that makes it okay?

You seriously remind me of one of the talking heads on FOX or CNBC who believe there should be one set of rules for corporations (which break them anyway) and another set for the peasants. And, rest assured, you're exactly the kind of consumer Disney wants in 2009.

Typical rant. It's tiring and you increasingly look foolish when you trot it out.

And thank you for the oh-so-typical retort that individuals should be held to higher standards than corporations. That someone who parks at DD, where parking is free, and then takes Disney transport, which is also free, elsewhere and winds up at a park is somehow a bad person and defrauding Disney of a parking fee.

Did I say that? Please point to where I said that.

You brought up layoffs and implied a moral equivalence to parking fees. I pointed out that the morals and ethics of one body does absolve the other of their obligation to act in a responsible manner.

I am not advocating people doing anything illegal or breaking even any rules of TWDC. I am saying there are legit ways people can avoid parking fees.

I am sure TWDC frowns upon them, which really is of no moment to me. If they have an issue with loopholes then by all means, let them spend the money to close them. Let them also guard the drink refill counters to make sure no one refills a cup they bought at 2:35 p.m. at 6 p.m. ... And parking is very simple. You want to prevent anyone from parking at DD or a resort and taking a bus to a park? All you need to do is have driver's check IDs when folks get on a bus and place signs prominently saying 'WDW bus transportation is for WDW resort guests exclusively. Please show ID for transport.' There was a time when this was done. And parking cost a fraction of what it does now.

There's a reason why they don't. A few ... the biggest is they don't care, so why the hell should you?

I don't. I care that you bring up completely irrelavent topics and do you best to correlate them to the thread.

This isn't a layoff thread. It's about parking.

Bottom line is there is no rule or policy that forces anyone to park in a Disney main lot to access the parks. Even with my AP, which gives me free parking, other than DAK I almost never use the main lots. I'd rather take a boat or monorail to MK or EPCOT. Of course, I usually spend money at the resort I'm parking at anyway ... I doubt the Food and Beverage manager at the Poly cares about me taking an empty spot (I wouldn't park there on Christmas or July 4th) and leaving my car there when I go to the MK for five hours after I just dropped $40 at the Tambu Lounge or $25 at Captain Cook's or both.

The fact that the morality police like yourself try and nail everyone with your personal views of what's right and wrong is akin to people hoisting their religious or political beliefs on others.

I never said anyone was wrong for anything, just pointing out in your response that the actions of Disney does not justify the action of an individual.

There's right and wrong. Legal and illegal. Then there are situations like this when only the most management apologists decide what should be right for others.

You spent half a page ranting about something I didn't say. Good job.

My point remains the same, the actions of A does not absolve B of the responsibility to act in considerate and responsibile manner.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

My point remains the same, the actions of A does not absolve B of the responsibility to act in an ethical manner.

Maybe I've missed something, but I think it's a jump to describe the methods mentioned in this thread to avoid the parking fee as plainly "unethical."

The two methods I've seen suggested are parking at DtD and using a circuitous trip aboard publicly available Disney transportation OR skipping the toll booth via publicly accessible roadways that simply aren't advertised by Disney.

They don't (to my understanding) require you to lie or trespass in restricted areas. They're just things Disney don't want you to do — so the ethics involved seem like more of an individual judgment call.

If it's me, I'm saving myself the hassle and paying the parking fee. But it's hard for me to see the case that is an open-and-shut case from an ethical or moral standpoint, based on what I've read.

 

[jakeman]

Maybe I've missed something, but I think it's a jump to describe the methods mentioned in this thread to avoid the parking fee as plainly "unethical."

The two methods I've seen suggested are parking at DtD and using a circuitous trip aboard publicly available Disney transportation OR skipping the toll booth via publicly accessible roadways that simply aren't advertised by Disney.

They don't (to my understanding) require you to lie or trespass in restricted areas. They're just things Disney don't want you to do — so the ethics involved seem like more of an individual judgment call.

If it's me, I'm saving myself the hassle and paying the parking fee. But it's hard for me to see the case that is an open-and-shut case from an ethical or moral standpoint, based on what I've read.

I understand where the confusion can come into play with my point. Ethical is a poor choice of words. Responsible would be more accurate. I have edited my previous post.

It's not regarding the parking, it's the assertion that WDW1974 made that since Disney pays low wages and has laid off cast member we are under no obligation to act in a responsible manner. Whenever you park where you are not supposed to be, you have the potential to screw over another guest who needs that spot for a ligitimate purpose. If you can live with that fine. I know I can!

That was my issue with his post. "Disney is bad, therefore we should screw them for every loophole they have."

It's fine if you want to have that attitude, but in my opinion it doesn't justify your actions.

Just call it what it is, "I'm cheap and don't want to pay for parking." but don't hide behind some moralistic outrage at Disney's treatment of cast members.

I should probably clarify, that I really don't have a problem with this practice in general, just the presentation of the counter-argument that "Disney has this coming" is, well, stupid.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Just call it what it is, "I'm cheap and don't want to pay for parking." but don't hide behind some moralistic outrage at Disney's treatment of cast members.

I can appreciate your point...honestly.

But I really don't see why a visitor trying to avoid a parking fee without breaking any rules to do so should have to wear the derogatory label of "cheap," while the corporation raising the fee during a recession isn't saddled with a similar label (like "greedy").

They both have the same basic motivation — money.

 

[SirGoofy]

But I really don't see why a visitor trying to avoid a parking fee without breaking any rules to do so should have to wear the derogatory label of "cheap," while the corporation raising the fee during a recession without funneling the revenue back to its front-line employees isn't saddled with a similar label (like "greedy").

CMs got a pay raise a few months ago.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

CMs got a pay raise a few months ago.

That's good to hear. I wasn't trying to come off as moralistic in that post, but I probably did. Disney isn't evil for wanting to boost revenues. They're just not automatically entitled to it either, IMO.

My bottom line is I do see the underlying motivations in this debate as the same: Disney wants to take more of our money, while guests like 74 want to keep their money. If no laws or property rights are broken, I don't think one party should be scolded for their pecuniary motivation while the other is excused.

 

[unkadug]

That's good to hear. I wasn't trying to come off as moralistic in that post, but I probably did. Disney isn't evil for wanting to boost revenues. They're just not automatically entitled to it either, IMO.

My bottom line is I do see the underlying motivations in this debate as the same: Disney wants to take more of our money, while guests like 74 want to keep their money. If no laws or property rights are broken, I don't think one party should be scolded for their pecuniary motivation while the other is excused.

True, but this website doesn't and shouldn't condone actions that could be construed as questionable at best.

 

[SirGoofy]

That's good to hear. I wasn't trying to come off as moralistic in that post, but I probably did. Disney isn't evil for wanting to boost revenues. They're just not automatically entitled to it either, IMO.

It's fine. I was just letting you know.:wave:

 

[jakeman]

But I really don't see why a visitor trying to avoid a parking fee without breaking any rules to do so should have to wear the derogatory label of "cheap," while the corporation raising the fee during a recession isn't saddled with a similar label (like "greedy").

They both have the same basic motivation — money.

Yeah, probably a personal thing. I don't see "cheap" on the same level as "greedy".

To me, "cheap" is looking to work the system to save a buck.

"Greedy" implies obtaining wealth at another expense.

Semantics, I know, but worth pointing out.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yeah, probably a personal thing. I don't see "cheap" on the same level as "greedy".

To me, "cheap" is looking to work the system to save a buck.

"Greedy" implies obtaining wealth at another expense.

Semantics, I know, but worth pointing out.

Can that expense mean not being able to go to WDW?:lookaroun:lol:

 

[s8film40]

True, but this website doesn't and shouldn't condone actions that could be construed as questionable at best.

I thought the reason this website didn't want the methods of circumventing the parking fees discussed was to keep it a secret. Since once enough people know how to do it Disney would surely correct the issue and those benefiting from it would no longer be able to get free parking.

I get free parking so it doesn't matter to me if they discuss it or not, but hey it's not my site I'll respect their wishes.

 

[TURKEY]

True, but this website doesn't and shouldn't condone actions that could be construed as questionable at best.

So how come all those posts that are ok with pool hopping and reusing mugs are kept and allowed to be discussed?

I'd say that's easily just as questionable. :shrug:

 

[unkadug]

So how come all those posts that are ok with pool hopping and reusing mugs are kept and allowed to be discussed?

I'd say that's easily just as questionable. :shrug:

They are generally closed.

 

[WDW1974]

I understand where the confusion can come into play with my point. Ethical is a poor choice of words. Responsible would be more accurate. I have edited my previous post.

Responsible? So guests should be responsible enough that Disney makes every penny it can possibly make?

It's unethical to save money in these tough times IF you aren't breaking a law or even a company rule?

What a leap ... or a crock.

It's not regarding the parking, it's the assertion that WDW1974 made that since Disney pays low wages and has laid off cast member we are under no obligation to act in a responsible manner.

No. That is you reading into what I said. My point was that Disney often acts in manners most rational people might consider unethical or immoral ... or just plain not nice. But for some reason, some folks believe individuals should be held to a higher moral level.

There is nothing irresponsible about saving as much as you can on a magical WDW vacation provided you aren't doing anything wrong.

Whenever you park where you are not supposed to be, you have the potential to screw over another guest who needs that spot for a ligitimate purpose. If you can live with that fine. I know I can!

Please, put your hyperbole stick back in its holster. No one is getting screwed over by people 'stealing' their parking spaces. If someone opts to leave a car at DD or a resort, then who are they hurting? And again, what if that person is spending money at those locations and then opting to not drive elsewhere? That's what I do. I have an AP. I have spent untold thousands of dollars at WDW over the years and not one of them has ever gone to parking. Disney would lose money on me if I suddenly opted to park in its giant lots.

That was my issue with his post. "Disney is bad, therefore we should screw them for every loophole they have."

It's fine if you want to have that attitude, but in my opinion it doesn't justify your actions.

Disney isn't bad or good. It is a typical American corporation in the 21st century. Making Wall Street happy by increasing shareholder value is all that matters.

And, yes, I do believe there is nothing wrong with individuals doing all they can to save their dollars, provided it isn't illegal. This isn't even against company policy. Sure, it's a gray area. But in those cases, I'm a firm believer in standing up for the individual.

Just call it what it is, "I'm cheap and don't want to pay for parking." but don't hide behind some moralistic outrage at Disney's treatment of cast members.

I don't like the way Disney treats its CMs. Discounted hotels rates or merchandise at 40% at the holidays when people are losing homes don't mean much. I am outraged by how all of corporate America treats its workers. I don't get that vibe from you.

I also think you have some nerve calling people cheap for trying to save money on their visits. Disney is constantly looking at how it can make more off them ... be it raising parking fees, food prices ... taking higher priced items off buffets while raising the prices ... cutting hours and entertainment. ... And you have this mock indignation and hollier than thou 'tude over people trying to save money again withOUT doing anything illegal or against Disney policy (there are ways to park at MK without paying for instance and I am not advocating that at all).

I should probably clarify, that I really don't have a problem with this practice in general, just the presentation of the counter-argument that "Disney has this coming" is, well, stupid.

The more people feel they are being gouged, the more they feel nickel and dimed, the more people (good people) tend to enter into that gray area. I've taken sociology classes on the phenomenon ... and while they were years ago, I think they're quite pertinent today.

The more bad corporate behavior/anti-guest behavior, the more bad behavior you're going to see from guests.

People are generally a whole lot nastier at WDW in 2009 than they were in 1989 or 1999 ... I'm sure the whole cost vs. value vs. economy situation has nothing to do with it.

 

[WDW1974]

True, but this website doesn't and shouldn't condone actions that could be construed as questionable at best.

I don't believe the website has a list of what it believes constitutes moral actions while at WDW. Does it?

Maybe I missed it.

There's nothing questionable about saving money if you aren't breaking a law or even a company policy.

Whether TWDC wants you to do otherwise really isn't the point.

They also want me to go buy the new Tink DVD and that's not happening.

 

[WDW1974]

So how come all those posts that are ok with pool hopping and reusing mugs are kept and allowed to be discussed?

I'd say that's easily just as questionable. :shrug:

Pool-hopping is flat out wrong. If someone isn't staying at the resort, they might even be tresspassing although that would be tough to prove since Disney welcomes gue$t$ to shop, eat and drink at all its resorts ('cept the new BLT).

Also, some pool-hopping is allowed. DVCers can hop. People staying at sister resorts can use the pools at the others. ... I also think if someone is staying at OKW and has family at the BW that Disney really couldn't care less if they use the pool when visiting said family, no matter 'policy'

... and mugs ... oh baby!!! I love that topic ... I own about 15 mugs and re-use them all the time (when staying at/or dining at said resort). I do so because for at least a decade I was invited to bring them back by literally dozens of CMs, many in management. Disney has now put out a written policy that I would respect IF I actually bought a new mug. But at the resorts where I've been told for years to bring them back (yeah ... where's jake saying that I know better than to listen to front-line CMs, even managers, when I know Disney wants me to keep buying?) ... well, let's just say my 1998 Port Orleans and WL mugs have the most mileage on them.

BTW, if a soda thief war develops, I'll just sit back and laugh at the fun!:drevil::drevil::drevil: