News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[geekza]

I feel like that’s already in motion at some level. Minnie Van’s have already proved themselves and are now picking up at the airport so at some point they will pull the plug or start charging.

I don't know. The Magical Express is a fantastic way of trapping people in the "Disney Bubble." I don't have any numbers, but I imagine it drastically cut down on the number of people who rented cars at the airport to drive to WDW. People are far-less-likely to leave the property if they don't have their own transportation to do so. I'm sure that Uber/Lyft has changed that somewhat, but I'd hazard to guess that a large number of people still end up staying put on the property if they take the Magical Express. The Minnie Vans are a fairly-easy way for Disney to create another revenue stream from people who have more money and don't want to ride a bus with a bunch of strangers and make a bunch of stops before getting to their resorts, but the cost certainly isn't for everyone. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Then again, I totally wouldn't put it past Disney to start charging something like $5-$10 per person for ME, since that would still be less-expensive than other forms of transport to the property.

 

[Missing20K]

Get your pitchforks ready for this take.

What are the chances TDO PR let the idea of "soft attendance" flit about the internet for just long enough to justify decreased entertainment offerings and increased pricing? Cause we all know they won't be putting the prices or entertainment offerings back to where they were pre "soft attendance" news. Or maybe they will rehire the Shamans for RoL?

EDIT: Substitute "Fox buyout", "CM raises", or "new E-tix" for "soft attendance" as required.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Get your pitchforks ready for this take.

What are the chances TDO PR let the idea of "soft attendance" flit about the internet for just long enough to justify decreased entertainment offerings and increased pricing? Cause we all know they won't be putting the prices or entertainment offerings back to where they were pre "soft attendance" news. Or maybe they will rehire the Shamans for RoL?

Nice theory, except for the fact that most of us seem to think that increased pricing and decreased entertainment offerings will probably not be incentive for people to visit, either locally or not. Marie

 

[Missing20K]

Nice theory, except for the fact that most of us seem to think that increased pricing and decreased entertainment offerings will probably not be incentive for people to visit, either locally or not. Marie

I never said it would incentivize people to go. I agree with you and others and feel quite the opposite.

 

[geekza]

Nice theory, except for the fact that most of us seem to think that increased pricing and decreased entertainment offerings will probably not be incentive for people to visit, either locally or not. Marie

With that said, we have ample proof from many on this board that those who never experienced what has been taken away and only know a lessened experience don't care. If you try to point out the degradation of the guest experience, they flat-out ignore what is being said and say, "Well, I had a good time, so who cares? Stop living in the past." Disney is counting on that. A slow pattern of erosion is an effective tool to make the uneducated masses accept less, believing that either there isn't an alternative or that the removal of something is somehow proof that it simply isn't possible or else it wouldn't have been removed. This is absolutely false in the majority of cases, but these days, perception is more effective than truth.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

With that said, we have ample proof from many on this board that those who never experienced what has been taken away and only know a lessened experience don't care. If you try to point out the degradation of the guest experience, they flat-out ignore what is being said and say, "Well, I had a good time, so who cares? Stop living in the past." Disney is counting on that. A slow pattern of erosion is an effective tool to make the uneducated masses accept less, believing that either there isn't an alternative or that the removal of something is somehow proof that it simply isn't possible or else it wouldn't have been removed. This is absolutely false in the majority of cases, but these days, perception is more effective than truth.

It has nothing to do with "truth" -- perception is reality when people evaluate their vacations and decide whether to return.

I'm curious what that point in time was -- the turning point when to many here WDW started to go downhill in some meaningful way. I get the concept of a "slow erosion", but what year was the last year when people would say: "Now THAT was the last 'perfect' year'!"?

Mostly I'm curious as to whether or not I ever saw it (first visit 1994, then 2-3/yr beginning 2006ish)!

 

[Disneyhead'71]

It has nothing to do with "truth" -- perception is reality when people evaluate their vacations and decide whether to return.

I'm curious what that point in time was -- the turning point when to many here WDW started to go downhill in some meaningful way. I get the concept of a "slow erosion", but what year was the last year when people would say: "Now THAT was the last 'perfect' year'!"?

Mostly I'm curious as to whether or not I ever saw it (first visit 1994, then 2-3/yr beginning 2006ish)!

1999.

 

[marni1971]

It has nothing to do with "truth" -- perception is reality when people evaluate their vacations and decide whether to return.

I'm curious what that point in time was -- the turning point when to many here WDW started to go downhill in some meaningful way. I get the concept of a "slow erosion", but what year was the last year when people would say: "Now THAT was the last 'perfect' year'!"?

Mostly I'm curious as to whether or not I ever saw it (first visit 1994, then 2-3/yr beginning 2006ish)!

Perfect? Late 80s, Early 90s. First turn? Late 90s, but slowly. "Downhill" mid to late 2000s and accelerating.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

1999.

Perfect? Late 80s, Early 90s. First turn? Late 90s, but slowly. "Downhill" mid to late 2000s and accelerating.

Interesting to hear these POVs - thanks.

I don't recall thinking in 2006 -- after having first visited in 1994 -- "wow, this has gone downhill since my first visit" -- not in any respect. I guess I'm just not observant enough... blessing...

ETA: I just remembered one notable exception for me -- the Figment massacre that took place between my first and second trip. Oy.

 

[disneyflush]

Interesting to hear these POVs - thanks.

I don't recall thinking in 2006 -- after having first visited in 1994 -- "wow, this has gone downhill since my first visit" -- not in any respect. I guess I'm just not observant enough... blessing...

Sounds like our visits back then were pretty similar. Started going in the 80's as a kid then stopped as a teenager in the mid 90's. Went back in 2006 with my own family after many years away. I missed the original Epcot rides but there was enough left I still enjoyed myself. The years after 2009 were pretty consistent gut punches with different announcements and news. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Being honest, after some reflection I came to realize that WDW has been sliding since Frank Wells died. Before his death, things were done with forethought, on a grand scale (like the score for the 1994 refurb of Spaceship Earth, not necessarily big huge attractions), and gave the guests something they never even thought they'd like or had seen before. Since then, it's been a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff with an afterthought given to theming or fit, with brief moments of brilliance (E:E, as one example). A bit of an over-simplification, I admit, but it gets the point across.

Maybe if the current "leaders" gave a damn about the things that Disney used to be known for, there wouldn't be "softness" like this.

 

[smile]

It has nothing to do with "truth" -- perception is reality when people evaluate their vacations and decide whether to return.

I'm curious what that point in time was -- the turning point when to many here WDW started to go downhill in some meaningful way. I get the concept of a "slow erosion", but what year was the last year when people would say: "Now THAT was the last 'perfect' year'!"?

Mostly I'm curious as to whether or not I ever saw it (first visit 1994, then 2-3/yr beginning 2006ish)!

for p&r, the first turn coincided somewhat dully with the arrival of mr. e - but make no mistake, it wasn't long after

the downhill beginning shortly before/after the death of wells... with bullet-points in 95 when the disneyland (of all places ) sister park was chosen as an experiment in 'what is the cheapest park we can make before people call us on it?' and in 97 when the choice to bring in mckinsey and company practices eventually led to the death of a guest in direct display of the erosion eisner brought in from the beginning.

iger is merely a continuation to the stratosphere into space that eisner had already blasted off into - going only where mr. e wishes he could/would have taken it
... but the late 90s and early 00s were so bad that it's virtually impossible to say things aren't better now... and where are we now?

imo


edit: oops ... far as being at wdw... well, what @marni1971 says. naturally

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You just made a point about the Halloween parties and cupcake parties people infamously mention. Those actually draw people to come back to the park to spend more money and with todays generation they are very popular because of the "instagram" worthy experience. Chapek has no business being in the position he is in considering having no experience with running theme parks. I do agree that Disney needs to maintain a standard of quality to the products they are offering. I just hope when they build all these attractions the same people don't claim it's too crowded because that is what they wanted to begin with.

I would guess that a lot of those “experiences” are one and Doners.

The crazed zealots who gush about going over and over again are who the current management cares about the least...
They are worth marketing to because or a lack independent thought/self control

These too...will pass...attractions last

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Being honest, after some reflection I came to realize that WDW has been sliding since Frank Wells died. Before his death, things were done with forethought, on a grand scale (like the score for the 1994 refurb of Spaceship Earth, not necessarily big huge attractions), and gave the guests something they never even thought they'd like or had seen before. Since then, it's been a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff with an afterthought given to theming or fit, with brief moments of brilliance (E:E, as one example). A bit of an over-simplification, I admit, but it gets the point across.

Maybe if the current "leaders" gave a damn about the things that Disney used to be known for, there wouldn't be "softness" like this.

The worm turned 94-96...wells...the slow down of animation success...katzenberg...ovitz...Eisner buying abc/espn.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

2000 was the last “great” year...by the way.

This isn’t hard

 

[marni1971]

To reiterate what Steve said, recent figures now show some improvement. Some future saving proposals have been put on hold, others are still going ahead. September was a real drop in the numbers, this month is looking as predicted so far. Early days yet of course.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To reiterate what Steve said, recent figures now show some improvement. Some future saving proposals have been put on hold, others are still going ahead. September was a real drop in the numbers, this month is looking as predicted so far. Early days yet of course.

Unless you have access to hard numbers...playing the prediction or “report” game is kinda pointless.

Just based on experience...the “fall” is nothing...it’s january on next year that will be pretty telling. It should be slow and Disney doesn’t have a powerhouse movie slate ( public consciousness of Disney should be less than for the last 4 years or so) early in the year...and it gives the economy more time to crash.

 

[marni1971]

Unless you have access to hard numbers...

I do.

 

[Missing20K]

I do.

So some of the cutbacks were due to the slowdown in attendance while the rest of the cutbacks and price increases were just coincidentally poorly timed to coincide with poor attendance figures? Genuine question, no snark.

Have they always been so knee jerky to a single month of slow business? Surely they realize the P&R portion of the business is a long con, a slow burn, a dusting of magic by a thousand pixie fairies over the course of a lifetime, no? Sorta genuine, mostly snark.

 

[disneygeek90]

It's odd to me that Disney can panic so quickly and then after a couple weeks settle down again.