News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[John park hopper]

If Disney were to give you a badge or ribbon highlighting your 10 years of visits, would your resume you business with them?

Some of us have been with Disney from the very beginning of MK. It would be nice if there was some sort of acknowledgement maybe a badge, a one time resort discount or anniversary table service meal something. Seems all guests are just a $ sign

 

[wdisney9000]

This is likely a Star Wars lul in my opinion. Of the people I know who don’t go every year, visitors in 2016, 2017 and 2018 have stated they’re not going to return until 2020 for Star Wars, or 2021/2022 for the 50th. It’s be a little stupid not to delay if you’re not a yearly visitor.

There is a bit of a flaw in that thought process. The majority of people who are actually aware of Star Wars Land and when it will open are already Disney fans/visitors. Disney is far more interested in the first time visitor whom they can fleece eight ways to Sunday. Those first time visitors hardy know the difference between WDW and Universal Studios, let alone that Star Wars land is being built and/or when it will open.

If this "lul" is due to guests waiting for SWL to open, that means the majority of guests keeping attendance high, are those who already visit Disney frequently. The same guests that Disney puts little emphasis on. I agree that many hardcore Disney fans are postponing their next trip until SWL opens, but I do not believe there are enough of them doing that which would impact current attendance that much. Hence, (IMO), this lul is far more likely due to factors such as raising prices, cutbacks and under staffing. The pigeon holing has been going on for quite some time and what was once tiny rips in the fabric are now becoming holes so big so you could drive a Disney bus through them.

FWIW, I am not complaining, just pointing out what I see. We still support Disney and we even bought DVC this year. The prices have risen so much over the last 5-10 years and for us, it was the best economical choice if we want to keep visiting WDW for years to come. The average family looks at the current cost of a 5-7 day Disney trip and most likely decides to save money and go elsewhere or stay off property and only visit WDW one or two days.

 

[Princess Leia]

This ride is definitely worth a 50 minute wait.

At 5 pm it was 55 minutes stand by and 55 minutes single rider. Maybe the "crowd" was "down" because of the heat, but the walkways were crowded like the Spring Break pictures we see on here every year. We also saw lots of people just sitting around sucking down ice cold beverages of all shapes and sizes yesterday afternoon.

Funny you should mention the heat. I was just looking at the 10 day forecast (I'm leaving in 17), and it's looking like I can expect 90 degrees and stupidly humid air for my weather. I know why my friend picked October for her wedding, but if it wasn't for the wedding, I would definitely not be going to Florida right now. It's just too humid.

 

[wdisney9000]

That is an interesting question...I tyhink little things like that matter and make you feel more like a guest than a customer. ...A subtle difference. There are tons of things they could do for APers to keep them year to year... Also the same with DVC and they could do things for repeat customers...a little acknowledgement goes a long way...

Some of us have been with Disney from the very beginning of MK. It would be nice if there was some sort of acknowledgement maybe a badge, a one time resort discount or anniversary table service meal something. Seems all guests are just a $ sign

I completely understand. I have been going since the late 80s and have had an AP almost every year with the exception of a few years when I was in my late teens and had just moved out and was living on my own. But even then I visited a few times with family. But IMO, visiting once a year may not be enough for Disney to care. We visit several times a year. My wife is currently at 5 trips this year with each visit being an average of 5-6 days. We do not live in Fla either. But, as AP holders, we get a better discount on food, merch and rooms than the deals Disney offers to non AP folks. Our last trip, we saved close to $100 on food and merch with the discounts. Now that we have DVC, we save waaaaay more money on our room and have even more perks. We got a Disney Visa as well, thats even more money we save when we cash in our points.

And I am not defending Disney in any way. Just pointing out that perhaps they view "once a year visitors" differently from AP and/or DVC visitors.

 

[LSLS]

DCL at least recognizes repeat passengers with escalating perks based on the number of cruises you've been on... none of them have any monetary value, but are considered valuable enough to make people want to come back... it doesn't have to be expensive to reinforce repeat visitor brand loyalty...

Honestly, they give free room upgrades to people all the time based on availability. How far would it go if at check in they went "Oh, I see you have stayed with us X number of times. How would you like a free upgrade on your room as our way of saying Thank You." It costs them nothing extra, and would give a Thanks to people for loyalty.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Honestly, they give free room upgrades to people all the time based on availability. How far would it go if at check in they went "Oh, I see you have stayed with us X number of times. How would you like a free upgrade on your room as our way of saying Thank You." It costs them nothing extra, and would give a Thanks to people for loyalty.

I think that’s a really good point — and like the Tiffins card I mentioned, it wouldn’t exactly break the bank!

Even when I call DirecTV with a problem they thank me for being a loyal customer since 2003.

 

[UpAllNight]

There is a bit of a flaw in that thought process. The majority of people who are actually aware of Star Wars Land and when it will open are already Disney fans/visitors. Disney is far more interested in the first time visitor whom they can fleece eight ways to Sunday. Those first time visitors hardy know the difference between WDW and Universal Studios, let alone that Star Wars land is being built and/or when it will open.

If this "lul" is due to guests waiting for SWL to open, that means the majority of guests keeping attendance high, are those who already visit Disney frequently. The same guests that Disney puts little emphasis on. I agree that many hardcore Disney fans are postponing their next trip until SWL opens, but I do not believe there are enough of them doing that which would impact current attendance that much. Hence, (IMO), this lul is far more likely due to factors such as raising prices, cutbacks and under staffing. The pigeon holing has been going on for quite some time and what was once tiny rips in the fabric are now becoming holes so big so you could drive a Disney bus through them.

FWIW, I am not complaining, just pointing out what I see. We still support Disney and we even bought DVC this year. The prices have risen so much over the last 5-10 years and for us, it was the best economical choice if we want to keep visiting WDW for years to come. The average family looks at the current cost of a 5-7 day Disney trip and most likely decides to save money and go elsewhere or stay off property and only visit WDW one or two days.

Your thought process is flawed on this one because you’ve assumed Disney only care about first time visitors, which if true doesn’t explain their huge remarketing efforts.

You don’t need to be a massive Disney fan to notice a Disney ad (which have already started) on Facebook for Star Wars land, be it through official channels or ticket sellers. Or, they may have just walked past the giant walls with it advertised over the past few years.

Disney are interested in anyone who’s going to pay money to come....this first time visitor thing is nonsense.

 

[wdisney9000]

Your thought process is flawed on this one because you’ve assumed Disney only care about first time visitors, which if true doesn’t explain their huge remarketing efforts.

You don’t need to be a massive Disney fan to notice a Disney ad (which have already started) on Facebook for Star Wars land, be it through official channels or ticket sellers. Or, they may have just walked past the giant walls with it advertised over the past few years.

Disney are interested in anyone who’s going to pay money to come....this first time visitor thing is nonsense.

I simply said that Disney is far more interested in first time visitors compared to massive Disney fans. I did not say they have zero interest in the guests that are already Disney fanatics. Why would they spend the money to advertise on social media to fans that are already aware of SWL? They aren't. They are advertising to appeal to those who are not aware of what they are building, aka, first time or once a decade visitors.

I have talked with more non Disney fanatics that are planning a trip but have no idea when Star Wars land is opening or what it will entail. That is why they advertise on social media and ticket seller websites.

 

[dizneeboy]

Just went to book on property hotel for nights of 12/6, 12/7. Saratoga Springs and Boardwalk were the ONLY rooms left and that is the beginning of December on a Thursday and Friday night. One two day span doesn't indicate overall hotel bookings but wow. was really surprised to see limited availability for that time frame after thanksgiving and way before xmas.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Just went to book on property hotel for nights of 12/6, 12/7. Saratoga Springs and Boardwalk were the ONLY rooms left and that is the beginning of December on a Thursday and Friday night. One two day span doesn't indicate overall hotel bookings but wow. was really surprised to see limited availability for that time frame after thanksgiving and way before xmas.

Pop Warner Championships are being held during that week so the lack of availability is completely understandable. Marie

 

[MAGICFLOP]

If Disney were to give you a badge or ribbon highlighting your 10 years of visits, would your resume you business with them?

I feel I speak for most and say that it is not a badge or ribbon we want...

What we truly want is for Disney to turn SE into a death star and change EPCOT to IGSC (Intergalactic Star Wars Center) basing all attractions on Star Wars...

 

[WondersOfLife]

Just went to book on property hotel for nights of 12/6, 12/7. Saratoga Springs and Boardwalk were the ONLY rooms left and that is the beginning of December on a Thursday and Friday night. One two day span doesn't indicate overall hotel bookings but wow. was really surprised to see limited availability for that time frame after thanksgiving and way before xmas.

I see availability for Boardwalk, Port Orleans, All-Star Sports, Art of Animation, Beach Club, Old Key West, Wilderness Lodge, AK Lodge, Polynesian Village, Saritoga Springs, Yacht Club, Caribbean Beach, and Boardwalk.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While some cannot fathom this, I have confidence in Disney’s mid- and long-term prospects and decision-making — in their ability and track record of righting the ship when they steer it wrong (which happens in every company.

The problem with this statement is that bob iger and the board have no mid and longterm goals. They’re not in it for the longterm...that’s not how modern corporate management is compensated and iger can bail at a moments notice.

Disney is caught in a corporate Bermuda Triangle of sorts.

It’s huge and widely held...so large amounts of attention will always be poured on it.

It’s based in perception of “quality” yet stock hoarders don’t want that...they want to be rich by 4pm.

They were “too family” for along time...now they aren’t family at all. No one remains. You know who’s more family? Comcast...no joke.

They don’t have any leadership...that is Eisner and iger’s fault because they drive out effective execs and seek no others as tbe napoleons of Burbank.


It is what it is...just saying “I have faith” isn’t a very good recognition of the situation though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the changes "benefit", or at least "don't target" visitors like me who can plan ahead and go off-peak. Now in addition to room stays being a bit cheaper, park prices will be as well. And with the cheaper prices will come some additional visitors, which makes it more likely that there will be a little longer hours and more shows/parades in the off-peak season.

I think the price changes target peak visitors, particularly those staying offsite since peak visitors staying onsite already pay the price via higher room rates. And hopefully the leveling of guests will reduce overtime for CMs and increase the number of full-time positions off-peak, but I'm not holding my breath.

What’s cheaper, bud?

100% price increase in 10 years isn’t Inflation...

You see that with Disney a lot...people talk about how good the prices are because the most recent increase doesn’t affect them...but the last 6 crushed them.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

That is an interesting question...I tyhink little things like that matter and make you feel more like a guest than a customer. ...A subtle difference. There are tons of things they could do for APers to keep them year to year... Also the same with DVC and they could do things for repeat customers...a little acknowledgement goes a long way...

Birthday/Anniversary/special occasion pins and corresponding free desserts everywhere; room upgrades, cards in the room, welcome back extras at some of the sit-down restaurants, etc.

Like my little “member since 1999” on the front of my Amex card? I do kinda’ like seeing that...

I think that DVC has done a decent job — they’ve sent little things over the years as “gifts”. Both DVC and AP have perks they change up over the years. Nothing I can recall that talks about how many years, though.

I have liked little things like the last few times we’ve been to Tiffins, there was a little card with our names on it thanking us for being repeat diners there. That can’t be expensive, but does make the customer feel good — nice little touch.

They used to give us a little bag of some kind of chocolate bark type stuff. It was very good.

I guess if they're "only" doing little cards now, I can make a "Disney has lost the magic" thread next time.

"lul"

I love that you did that. I'm a terrible person.

Funny you should mention the heat. I was just looking at the 10 day forecast (I'm leaving in 17), and it's looking like I can expect 90 degrees and stupidly humid air for my weather. I know why my friend picked October for her wedding, but if it wasn't for the wedding, I would definitely not be going to Florida right now. It's just too humid.

Savoring every last 90 degree day before our 2 weeks of winter!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

They used to give us a little bag of some kind of chocolate bark type stuff. It was very good.

I guess if they're "only" doing little cards now, I can make a "Disney has lost the magic" thread next time.

Yes! I forgot about the now-missing chocolate bark!! Get the pitchforks and I’ll meet you in AK!!!! :-D

 

[WDWDad2907]

The problem with this statement is that bob iger and the board have no mid and longterm goals. They’re not in it for the longterm...that’s not how modern corporate management is compensated and iger can bail at a moments notice.

Disney is caught in a corporate Bermuda Triangle of sorts.

It’s huge and widely held...so large amounts of attention will always be poured on it.

It’s based in perception of “quality” yet stock hoarders don’t want that...they want to be rich by 4pm.

They were “too family” for along time...now they aren’t family at all. No one remains. You know who’s more family? Comcast...no joke.

They don’t have any leadership...that is Eisner and iger’s fault because they drive out effective execs a seek no others as tbe napoleons of Burbank.


It is what it is...just saying “I have faith” isn’t a very good recognition of the situation though.

Completely agree. "Plan? There ain't no plan". Unless you consider spending billions of dollars shoving shiny, new things where they don't fit/aren't needed, cutting hundreds of millions in costs elsewhere for things that DO matter and people DO care about, and raising pricing dramatically to take advantage of a perceived increase in quality, then yes, that would be a plan. Sad at the state this has gotten to. Seems like there isn't much hope on the horizon either.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

On another note...I’m sure there’s a thread on how great the “expanded offerings” of early morning magic are...but I can’t read that...

Because the reality is that’s part of a “training”/indoctrination plan...sweeten the milk on the road to high cost a la carte/block daily pricing.

$50 an hour anyone?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Your thought process is flawed on this one because you’ve assumed Disney only care about first time visitors, which if true doesn’t explain their huge remarketing efforts.

You don’t need to be a massive Disney fan to notice a Disney ad (which have already started) on Facebook for Star Wars land, be it through official channels or ticket sellers. Or, they may have just walked past the giant walls with it advertised over the past few years.

Disney are interested in anyone who’s going to pay money to come....this first time visitor thing is nonsense.

I agree with wdisney9000 , "Disney is far more interested in the first time visitor whom they can fleece eight ways to Sunday." wdisney9000 did not say, "Disney only care about first time visitors". On your side of the argument, I also agree, Disney will take anyone's money, but I agree with wdisney9000, I also think Disney is far more interested in the first time visitor, I read somewhere 75 percent return again.

It is a fact that long time returning visitors see a decline in the guest experience.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It is a fact that long time returning visitors see a decline in the guest experience.

As evidence in surveys over a long period?