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News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
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I think the reasons have been said:

It’s a plan for “mandatory” cuts...doesn’t matter if the parks are packed or empty.

That’s chapek...sweatshop guru...

And oh by the way - the leading “candidate” for ceo of the walt disney company.

I really do wish I was exaggerating
I've been worried about that for some time now.
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
Premium Member
I forget what the number is, but there's an "optimal" number of attractions for a guest to see in a given day. I think it's either 9 or 11. After that, the marginal satisfaction a guest gets from seeing additional attractions is negligible. In other words, a guest who sees 11 attractions is much happier than a guest who sees 6 attractions. But a guest who sees 15 attractions is not any happier than a guest who sees 11 attractions. So throwing labor at the parks in order to get guests from 11 to 15 isn't worth the cost because it doesn't actually result in the guests getting a "wonderful experience, making them much more likely to return" as you posited.
It’s the same basic concept of marginal utility in behavioral finance. The level of satisfaction you get from one additional “unit” begins to decrease after reaching a certain threshold.

TDO has gotten very good at analyzing all of the data they collect and using it to improve efficiency, a little too good for my liking lately :joyfull:
 

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
So, since park visits need to be booked and planned at least six months in advance, and longer for DVC, is there anything that can be pointed to from 6-9 months ago that could account for the softness being seen now in attendance? When did the last price increase and parking fees occur? I’m just trying to come up with a reason other than, or in addition to, waiting for SWL.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
So, since park visits need to be booked and planned at least six months in advance, and longer for DVC, is there anything that can be pointed to from 6-9 months ago that could account for the softness being seen now in attendance? When did the last price increase and parking fees occur? I’m just trying to come up with a reason other than, or in addition to, waiting for SWL.
This is the normal of a handful of years ago. It was the crowdedness in the off-season in the past few years that was abnormal. Perhaps when people went in the past few years in the off-peak season because it was off-peak but really wasn't, they decided to stop coming in the off-peak because it wasn't off-peak, but it now is because of that.
 

bstiles

Active Member
This is the normal of a handful of years ago. It was the crowdedness in the off-season in the past few years that was abnormal. Perhaps when people went in the past few years in the off-peak season because it was off-peak but really wasn't, they decided to stop coming in the off-peak because it wasn't off-peak, but it now is because of that.
Or maybe Disney has finally reached a tipping point where it has outpaced inflation over the past couple of years while wages quietly remain flat and stagnate. The constant cost cutting and up charging everything, I think has finally got the word out to the rest of the world. Do I like Disney sure I do, but I’m not going to pay those prices while most parks other than the magic kingdom barely offers anything of substance. One could argue there was more to do 10-15 years ago in those parks and you didn’t feel like you were getting ripped off. You felt satisfied with what you paid for and the expectations were upheld.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Or maybe Disney has finally reached a tipping point where it has outpaced inflation over the past couple of years while wages quietly remain flat and stagnate. The constant cost cutting and up charging everything, I think has finally got the word out to the rest of the world. Do I like Disney sure I do, but I’m not going to pay those prices while most parks other than the magic kingdom barely offers anything of substance. One could argue there was more to do 10-15 years ago in those parks and you didn’t feel like you were getting ripped off. You felt satisfied with what you paid for and the expectations were upheld.
Last couple of years?
WDW prices have outstripped inflation and wage growth for much longer than that.
Cue @parentof4 with the charts
 

DisneyGirl3820

Well-Known Member
Excited to hear crowd levels are low! Any info about crowd levels specifically at MNSSHP? We're going on Friday and I know it's usually more crowded than the weekday parties but I'm just curious if the levels are lower as well?
 

MotherOfBirds

Well-Known Member
God forbid that there be a few weeks a year where a day at MK is pleasant and leisurely rather than a cattle drive. The worst part is that any redistribution of guests and wait time via the addition of new rides will inevitably be negated by allowing more guests into the park. I never thought I would look back on 2002 fondly , but now...
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Excited to hear crowd levels are low! Any info about crowd levels specifically at MNSSHP? We're going on Friday and I know it's usually more crowded than the weekday parties but I'm just curious if the levels are lower as well?
I attended two Parties earlier this week ( Sunday and Tuesday night )
Both nights felt busier then the last time i attended, but that was five years ago and a lot has changed since then.
Tuesday actually felt 'busier' to me then Sunday nights party which i found interesting.

Certain Attractions had a very long wait ( POTC ), a couple had longer then expected ( 50min for SDMT & Haunted Mansion ) but as the night wore on the wait times plummeted and things were quite enjoyable.
Many were talk ons at that point (Most Fantasyland Attractions except SDMT ) or had minimal 5 to 15 minute waits ( BTMR, SpaceM, SplashM, etc. )

Character greeting lines were long all evening.
Those never let up from what i saw walking around, but i was not focused on meeting characters while i was there.

Crowds definitely thinned after the first two showings of the 'Boo To You' Parade and the 'Hocus Pocus Spelltacular' stage show.
I recommend staying until the very end...it really is the best time to be there the last three hours of the Party.
Remember, you can use your Party ticket to enter the Park at 4pm and stay to shop on Main Street until 1am.
;)
Have a great time!


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BigThunderMatt

Well-Known Member
I attended two Parties earlier this week ( Sunday and Tuesday night )
Both nights felt busier then the last time i attended, but that was five years ago and a lot has changed since then.
Tuesday actually felt 'busier' to me then Sunday nights party which i found interesting.

Certain Attractions had a very long wait ( POTC ), a couple had longer then expected ( 50min for SDMT & Haunted Mansion ) but as the night wore on the wait times plummeted and things were quite enjoyable.
Many were talk ons at that point (Most Fantasyland Attractions except SDMT ) or had minimal 5 to 15 minute waits ( BTMR, SpaceM, SplashM, etc. )

Character greeting lines were long all evening.
Those never let up from what i saw walking around, but i was not focused on meeting characters while i was there.

Crowds definitely thinned after the first two showings of the 'Boo To You' Parade and the 'Hocus Pocus Spelltacular' stage show.
I recommend staying until the very end...it really is the best time to be there the last three hours of the Party.
Remember, you can use your Party ticket to enter the Park at 4pm and stay to shop on Main Street until 1am.
;)
Have a great time!
Parties are hard to gauge overall crowd levels for a few reasons. The biggest reason is that though they limit ticket sales for them to what would overall be considered a slow day at the park, it would only be "slow" if that was what came through the gates throughout the entire day. When that amount of people all comes in at the same time for the same event over a shorter span of time, the park tends to feel more crowded.

The other issue is the mingling period. If you take advantage of the 4pm entry you're mixed in with the regular day guests. So whatever was in the park already that day is now being exacerbated by tons of people coming in for the party. Finally, there's a mass exodus for the parties after the fireworks. It astounded me how many people I'd see come in right at the 4 pm hour who would bail right after the fireworks (and sometimes they'd come in right before the party started) considering how much the party tickets cost. This is why the second parade is usually much less crowded and wait times drop substantially after the fireworks.

So a party is never a good indicator of overall attendance in during a specific time period because of how unique of a situation it is.
 

TheGuyThatMakesSwords

Well-Known Member
A thought on UNDERcrowding?

We live in MI - so not involved with East Coast Weather. But last 2 weeks? The MAJOR demographic for WDW attendance (East Coast US), has been severely impacted by a major Hurricane :(.

If anyone gets a chance? Stop for a moment, exit room, Space Ship Earth. Check out the MAP, showing the home areas of those visiting. This can be VERY informative.
 

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
I attended two Parties earlier this week ( Sunday and Tuesday night )
Both nights felt busier then the last time i attended, but that was five years ago and a lot has changed since then.
Tuesday actually felt 'busier' to me then Sunday nights party which i found interesting.

Certain Attractions had a very long wait ( POTC ), a couple had longer then expected ( 50min for SDMT & Haunted Mansion ) but as the night wore on the wait times plummeted and things were quite enjoyable.
Many were talk ons at that point (Most Fantasyland Attractions except SDMT ) or had minimal 5 to 15 minute waits ( BTMR, SpaceM, SplashM, etc. )

Character greeting lines were long all evening.
Those never let up from what i saw walking around, but i was not focused on meeting characters while i was there.

Crowds definitely thinned after the first two showings of the 'Boo To You' Parade and the 'Hocus Pocus Spelltacular' stage show.
I recommend staying until the very end...it really is the best time to be there the last three hours of the Party.
Remember, you can use your Party ticket to enter the Park at 4pm and stay to shop on Main Street until 1am.
;)
Have a great time!


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I’m assuming the Pirates waittimes were due to the Halloween additions?
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
I’m assuming the Pirates waittimes were due to the Halloween additions?
That was my assumption at the time, seeing the line, but it may have been caused by the Attraction being down for a time.
I just happened to be walking by POTC and noticed the line running out into the walkway and stretching almost to the point of being right across from the Tiki Room entrance.
Never seen it like that...it got my attention enough to snap this quick photo -

image.jpeg

That was Tuesday night.

Sunday night I saw long waits the couple of times I walked by, but the line didn't stretch out onto the walkway.
Just a full queue.
 
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