News Paradise Pier Becoming Pixar Pier

[Disney Irish]

Very interesting insights! I had never heard of the Main Train through Nature's Wonderland before. I think an argument could be made that one new shiny attraction would help offset the impact of closing Tomorrowland or the Autopia area (for the rumored Fantasyland expansion). I think Option 1 is big enough, especially if they close that entrance into SWGE (the Fantasyland entrance is nearby and better IMO). Anyway, it's not going to happen, but it's fun to imagine.

So your post here just showed up, probably under moderation for awhile. Anyways, Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland was some of the first updates that Walt did to Disneyland, it opened in 1960. I would suggest learning more about Disneyland's history so you know the impacts of some of your ideas.

But I agree its not going to happen as its not actually big enough on its own, as I mentioned in my last post, even if you close of the Frontierland entrance to GE. I think it would be more likely they would get rid of RoA and include that area as part of any future expansion rather than to just use that area alone. And even that I think it unlikely at this point.

 

[wityblack]

That area is smaller than you realize, so its not as usable as you think. I'm not sure your age, but construction of a show building isn't something that is just easily thrown up without any sense of planning. That area is basically a 1/2 acre, which is not really enough space to put anything other than maybe a spinner and its queue.

Not that they should develop on that serene space between Thunder and TSI, but there is definitely room for something. That space I measured to be .84 acres, which is about the size of Midway Mania with the queue included. It is larger than Spider-Man and Little Mermaid. It is larger than Soarin, Buzz Lightyear, Innoventions, Toad and Alice and Peter Pan put together, Splash Mountain, Matterhorn, Monsters Inc, Mission Breakout, Winnie the Pooh, and Star Tours. They would have to put some mega berm to really utilize the space, but they could put something there.

 

[Disney Irish]

Not that they should develop on that serene space between Thunder and TSI, but there is definitely room for something. That space I measured to be .84 acres, which is about the size of Midway Mania with the queue included. It is larger than Spider-Man and Little Mermaid. It is larger than Soarin, Buzz Lightyear, Innoventions, Toad and Alice and Peter Pan put together, Splash Mountain, Matterhorn, Monsters Inc, Mission Breakout, Winnie the Pooh, and Star Tours. They would have to put some mega berm to really utilize the space, but they could put something there.

Yes understand that its possible to use it, but the reality is something different. And the fact you mention a "mega berm" means its even less usable space. So that 0.83 acres is probably closer to 0.5 acres, which is really small. So I just doubt that its enough space to actually be usable in terms of modern Disney build attractions.

 

[mickEblu]

Not sure why anyone would think that piece of land is so disposable. From a placemaking perspective it is perhaps the most important spot in Frontierland. So this I guess is what happens when Disney announces the ROA is going away at MK. Arm chair imagineers come out of the woodworks to destroy highly important atmosphere / placemaking in Disneylands ROA all in the name of adding one ride to a park already packed with rides. Lol. Not to mention AFTER DL Forward has been aprproved and they have plenty of other areas they could expand. Must be a slow news day.

 

[Disney Irish]

Not sure why anyone would think that piece of land is so disposable. From a placemaking perspective it is perhaps the most important spot in Frontierland. So this I guess is what happens when Disney announces the ROA is going away at MK. Arm chair imagineers come out of the woodworks to destroy highly important atmosphere / placemaking in Disneylands ROA all in the name of adding one ride to a park already packed with rides. Lol. Not to mention AFTER DL Forward has been aprproved and they have plenty of other areas they could expand. Must be a slow news day.

Agreed, and I mentioned before Disney would be more likely to use the entire RoA which includes that little plot of land over using just that little plot of land alone if they really wanted to expand Frontierland.

Its an interesting thought experiment, but probably not close to any type of reality.

 

[coffeefan]

This is what the Coco themed restaurant looks like in Paris. A building in a similar style (like Miguel's home/shoe shop or cemetery) would blend well with Frontierland. The rest of the show building would be hidden. I know some are against change, but this would be better than losing RoA, and Frontierland is landlocked from expanding otherwise. Anyway, we will probably see it happen at other Disney parks since that's where they tend to place Coco/Miguel.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Man, remember when Frontierland was about the mythologized, non IP-ified wild west and people just...accepted it?

Those were the days.

 

[wityblack]

Man, remember when Frontierland was about the mythologized, non IP-ified wild west and people just...accepted it?

Those were the days.

Davy Crockett would like a word...

 

[PiratesMansion]

Davy Crockett would like a word...

Davy Crockett was at least a historical domain character prior to Disney co-opting him into an IP. It was also a Walt-era IP usage, so as far as I can tell, Davey Crockett didn't completely invade and work against the intent of the land as modern Disney would almost certainly do if they actually did put Coco in Frontierland.

It'd be Big Thunder Mountain turned into The Quest for Ernesto De La Cruz with Miguel looking for him, shouting directly into your ear as he's doing so, on every lift hill, scenery that won't fit with the older stuff throughout, Miguel and his grandfather reuniting as motionless stick figures (both reciting a sonnet's worth of dialogue or music despite their mouths remaining stationary the entire time), and then "Remember Me" blasting as you round the bend through the little town. Then they can pat themselves on the bat on how they "improved" it just because it now has modern Disney-Pixar IP. "More Disney."

Luckily, they're actually going to build it in DCA so we can avoid this issue, and if it does somehow co-opt a ride or area in the process, it won't offend me nearly as much.

 

[DrAlice]

I go away for a few days, and when I return y'all are discussing Coco going in DL?!?! No, no, no, no, no. Just no. DL has ENOUGH attractions. Any work in DL needs to be in Tomorrowland. Full stop. Coco belongs in DCA if for no other reason than it helps fill out that park's attraction roster.

Disney reads these forums. Stop giving them bad ideas!

 

[mickEblu]

I go away for a few days, and when I return y'all are discussing Coco going in DL?!?! No, no, no, no, no. Just no. DL has ENOUGH attractions. Any work in DL needs to be in Tomorrowland. Full stop. Coco belongs in DCA if for no other reason than it helps fill out that park's attraction roster.

Disney reads these forums. Stop giving them bad ideas!

What, you don’t want the Coco ride to go here? When was the last time you swam in this pond?

 

[MistaDee]

This is what the Coco themed restaurant looks like in Paris. A building in a similar style (like Miguel's home/shoe shop or cemetery) would blend well with Frontierland. The rest of the show building would be hidden. I know some are against change, but this would be better than losing RoA, and Frontierland is landlocked from expanding otherwise. Anyway, we will probably see it happen at other Disney parks since that's where they tend to place Coco/Miguel.

I had no idea there was permanent Coco restaurant in Paris, that's interesting to consider what sort of design decisions they might borrow for DCA

Man, remember when Frontierland was about the mythologized, non IP-ified wild west and people just...accepted it?

Those were the days.

I love really exploring the "mythologies" underpinning some of the idealized, thematic lands from Disneyland's opening:

the Wild West and Manifest Destiny for Frontierland,
the sorta Atomic Era/Cold War/ Space Race for Tomorrowland,
the exploration / imperialism of Adventureland
the European fairy tales of Fantasyland
"small town" Missouri, in 1910 (without the segregation)

Fascinating how Walt chose these genres to really capture the imagination of the American public. We've already seen Tomorrowland adapt and transform a little bit; if the Magic Kingdom is any indication, it seems like Frontierland may be the next to sort of "zoom out" from the Wild West and be a more abstract conception of "Frontier" that can include the wilderness of the western states beyond the time of cowboys and indians.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Fascinating how Walt chose these genres to really capture the imagination of the American public. We've already seen Tomorrowland adapt and transform a little bit; if the Magic Kingdom is any indication, it seems like Frontierland may be the next to sort of "zoom out" from the Wild West and be a more abstract conception of "Frontier" that can include the wilderness of the western states beyond the time of cowboys and indians.

I'm not saying that it should be done with Cars or with removing DL's RoA (unlike MK's river, I do consider this one important), but I do think it would be worth sometime in the future expanding Frontierland's scope or focus to something a little more broad than it currently is.

For the time Disneyland was built, it was the kind of frontier that really ensnared imaginations. But it only really tells part of the story. I do actually think it would be healthy for the land to look beyond just the small slice of the Frontier they chose to focus on and incorporate different places and times of the Frontier in there. There was a lot more adventure and discovery to it than just what's there now.

Given spacial requirements, this would require some tinkering with what is currently there, but I think that could in theory be done without really losing anything that's currently there. I think there's still room for the frontier in the parks, just perhaps something that goes a little further and digs a little deeper than just the cowboy of it all.

Honestly, I think Adventureland has kinda always been that. It's a very, very broad interpretation of the spirit of adventure that evokes different places, different time periods, and different aesthetics but it all fits together so well.

Speaking frankly, Frontierland is my least favorite area of the park (same story over at MK) and I do think that is probably why: it's vision is a little narrow compared to Adventureland and the more prime versions of Tomorrowland.

 

[Consumer]

For the time Disneyland was built, it was the kind of frontier that really ensnared imaginations. But it only really tells part of the story. I do actually think it would be healthy for the land to look beyond just the small slice of the Frontier they chose to focus on and incorporate different places and times of the Frontier in there. There was a lot more adventure and discovery to it than just what's there now.

The frontier closed in 1890.

 

[MistaDee]

The frontier closed in 1890.

I suspect you're referring to the 1890 date when the US Census stated that a "frontier line" would no longer have a place in future census reports. Although this is traditionally given as the "end of the frontier," what we associate with the Wild West and an actual frontier of unsettled territory persisted far far longer.

Historically, the Alaskan gold rush literally kicked off in 1897. Thematically, works like "The Wild Bunch" set in 1913, or "Red Dead Redemption" set in 1913 deal with the decline of the "wild west" the death of the conventional understanding of "frontier."

In fact, the author who made that census report famous in writing his "Frontier Thesis" even argued that a new frontier would have to be pursued as the contiguous US filled in. He was probably advocating for some imperialist style conquering, but I think thematically he is right that the frontier in a more abstract conception absolutely persisted.

Alaska, the interior of the West and many of our overseas territories, soon to include the Phillippines, Cuba and Hawaii remained wild and unexploited for years past the 1900s. Hawaii itself was only given statehood in 1959.

That's to say nothing of space, the final frontier....

 

[Consumer]

I suspect you're referring to the 1890 date when the US Census stated that a "frontier line" would no longer have a place in future census reports. Although this is traditionally given as the "end of the frontier," what we associate with the Wild West and an actual frontier of unsettled territory persisted far far longer.

Historically, the Alaskan gold rush literally kicked off in 1897. Thematically, works like "The Wild Bunch" set in 1913, or "Red Dead Redemption" set in 1913 deal with the decline of the "wild west" the death of the conventional understanding of "frontier."

In fact, the author who made that census report famous in writing his "Frontier Thesis" even argued that a new frontier would have to be pursued as the contiguous US filled in. He was probably advocating for some imperialist style conquering, but I think thematically he is right that the frontier in a more abstract conception absolutely persisted.

Alaska, the interior of the West and many of our overseas territories, soon to include the Phillippines, Cuba and Hawaii remained wild and unexploited for years past the 1900s. Hawaii itself was only given statehood in 1959.

That's to say nothing of space, the final frontier....

So they should put Space Mountain into Frontierland?

Do themes have no meaning to you people?

 

[Epcot81Fan]

So they should put Space Mountain into Frontierland?

Do themes have no meaning to you people?

Frontierland now has an idiotic, giant princess tiara on top of a water tower, so anything goes now.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

So they should put Space Mountain into Frontierland?

Do themes have no meaning to you people?

I actually do think a early 1900s “Frontier” would be a sick evolution of the Frontierland concept, when people eventually grow tired of the Wild West-esque theming.

Frontierland now has an idiotic, giant princess tiara on top of a water tower, so anything goes now.

You change one Southern-themed IP to another Southern-themed IP for a westernland and everyone loses their minds…

 

[Epcot81Fan]

I actually do think a early 1900s “Frontier” would be a sick evolution of the Frontierland concept, when people eventually grow tired of the Wild West-esque theming.


You change one Southern-themed IP to another Southern-themed IP for a westernland and everyone loses their minds…

As they said in Spinal Tap, “It’s a fine line between clever and stupid”.

 

[MistaDee]

So they should put Space Mountain into Frontierland?

Do themes have no meaning to you people?

If that's your takeaway from my post I'm not sure what to tell you

If you have a good faith response to any of the evidence I presented then I'd love to hear it