News Paradise Pier Becoming Pixar Pier

[Disney Irish]

I've seen you express that suspended rides are short, but I don't understand the correlation of that. Sure, I know Peter Pan is shorter, but that's because of the small footprint it takes up, not because the ride system can't handle a longer track layout. Is there a reason why Disney couldn't create a version of pirates with a suspended ride system and be the same length?

I mean, I don't think it works thematically, but I'm speaking about just creating a long suspended ride. I don't believe the ride system is limiting to the length of the ride. I think suspended rides have been plagued more by ideas of capacity than length as having a 12-person ride suspended takes more infrastructure than a 12-person ride on the ground.

I don't know that the ride system itself can handle a longer track or not. I'm sure technically it can. But yes capacity is the larger issue, which is why I think most tend to be shorter to get even reasonable hourly capacity numbers. So a longer track but very low capacity, or a shorter track so it has reasonable capacity. Its appears to be the trade off with the ride system, and why I don't think you see very many longer than the 4 minutes that Peter has in SDL.

 

[Professortango1]

I don't know that the ride system itself can handle a longer track or not. I'm sure technically it can. But yes capacity is the larger issue, which is why I think most tend to be shorter to get even reasonable hourly capacity numbers. So a longer track but very low capacity, or a shorter track so it has reasonable capacity. Its appears to be the trade off with the ride system, and why I don't think you see very many longer than the 4 minutes that Peter has in SDL.

Does ride length affect capacity? I would imagine that vehicle size and dispatch time affects capacity most. I know people-eater attractions are usually longer which can partner higher capacity with longer ride time, meaning a lot more people are physically ON the ride at the same time. Like Universe of Energy soaked up a TON of people for 40-some minutes and dispatched every 7 or so minutes.

 

[chadwpalm]

So a longer track but very low capacity, or a shorter track so it has reasonable capacity.

What does track length have to do with number of vehicle dispatched per hour, or hourly capacity is general? Track length doesn't affect hour capacity, just how many bodies are on the attraction at a given time. If you can dispatch the same amount of vehicles when the track is 100' verses 1000', it has no affect on hourly capacity.

The only restrains to hourly capacity would be how many people you can put on a vehicle, and how quickly you can dispatch them. I can maybe see how larger vehicles would require heftier weight limits causing larger show buildings to build heftier track systems. Dispatches would be quick if there are no restraints, just like any other Fantasyland style dark ride.

Track length is not a factor in hourly capacity though. It would factor in how many bodies are off the walkways though.....but not by much.

 

[Disney Irish]

Does ride length affect capacity? I would imagine that vehicle size and dispatch time affects capacity most. I know people-eater attractions are usually longer which can partner higher capacity with longer ride time, meaning a lot more people are physically ON the ride at the same time. Like Universe of Energy soaked up a TON of people for 40-some minutes and dispatched every 7 or so minutes.

I would think it all goes go hand and hand as there is only so many vehicles you can have on a track that isn't an omnimover, which leads to lower dispatch time, which leads to less guest throughput.

 

[Disney Irish]

What does track length have to do with number of vehicle dispatched per hour, or hourly capacity is general? Track length doesn't affect hour capacity, just how many bodies are on the attraction at a given time. If you can dispatch the same amount of vehicles when the track is 100' verses 1000', it has no affect on hourly capacity.

The only restrains to hourly capacity would be how many people you can put on a vehicle, and how quickly you can dispatch them. I can maybe see how larger vehicles would require heftier weight limits causing larger show buildings to build heftier track systems. Dispatches would be quick if there are no restraints, just like any other Fantasyland style dark ride.

Track length is not a factor in hourly capacity though. It would factor in how many bodies are off the walkways though.....but not by much.

Disagree, but I'm not an expert. As I've always understood it track length is a factor in overall throughput as there is only so many vehicles that can be dispatched per hour. Shorter track allows more dispatches per hour which leads to greater throughput and thus higher hourly capacity.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but that is the way it was always explained to me, this was even going back to my own days working at an amusement park. Which I don't think has changed in the last 35 years.

 

[Professortango1]

Disagree, but I'm not an expert. As I've always understood it track length is a factor in overall throughput as there is only so many vehicles that can be dispatched per hour. Shorter track allows more dispatches per hour which leads to greater throughput and thus higher hourly capacity.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but that is the way it was always explained to me, this was even going back to my own days working at an amusement park. Which I don't think has changed in the last 35 years.

Loading station size and layout determines your dispatch speeds as well as time needed for effects/elements to reset.

If Peter Pan had a load station twice the length, you could theoretically have folks loading in while another 2-3 vehicles slowly move down to be released one after another. It might hurt the visual storytelling to have a constant string of ships, but there's no physical reason why you couldn't if you had a load station large enough to allow you to load like an omnimover without being one.

This is why they added an unload area to Frozen so they could speed up dispatches by having boats arrive empty and ready to load vs waiting on folks to clear out and then load.

Track length shouldn't affect capacity as a pirates running at 100% capactity/efficiency would be unchanged if the ride somehow was half the length. You are still having just as many people loaded into the boats and boats dispatching at the same intervals, just less time in the actual flume before disembarking.

Track length does give you more breathing room for effects and also avoiding/reducing backups for slower elements like lift hills and clearing brake runs. We see this POTC and the backup which can occur at the final lift hill.

 

[Disney Irish]

Loading station size and layout determines your dispatch speeds as well as time needed for effects/elements to reset.

If Peter Pan had a load station twice the length, you could theoretically have folks loading in while another 2-3 vehicles slowly move down to be released one after another. It might hurt the visual storytelling to have a constant string of ships, but there's no physical reason why you couldn't if you had a load station large enough to allow you to load like an omnimover without being one.

This is why they added an unload area to Frozen so they could speed up dispatches by having boats arrive empty and ready to load vs waiting on folks to clear out and then load.

Track length shouldn't affect capacity as a pirates running at 100% capactity/efficiency would be unchanged if the ride somehow was half the length. You are still having just as many people loaded into the boats and boats dispatching at the same intervals, just less time in the actual flume before disembarking.

Track length does give you more breathing room for effects and also avoiding/reducing backups for slower elements like lift hills and clearing brake runs. We see this POTC and the backup which can occur at the final lift hill.

Like I said I'm not an expert. It just seems like track length, which is calculated as ride duration, has a direct connection to throughput. But maybe everyone in the industry that told me it did was wrong.

Even the calculations I've found online indicate that duration (which also happens to include load time) is part of the equation -

P = Persons Per Hour

C = Train Capacity

D = Ride Duration (Include loading time) (Change the time to a decimal [ex. 2:30 = 2.5 ; 2 1/2 minutes = 2.5 minutes])

T = Number of Trains

Equation:

P = (C / D • 60)(T)

So that would seem to indicate a shorter duration improves throughput. But maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand that as you guys are.

Also bringing this back to suspended rides, why wasn't it improved more if it could have been more efficient, longer, and have higher capacity for the SDL version of Peter. You would think if it was possible they would have figured out a way to do in the 50+ years between when it was originally built and the SDL version.

But as I said I'm not an expert.

 

[DLR92]

I think it needs it in the sense that most people are are expecting or want at least one drop. Give the people what they want.

I am expecting a drop! I don’t want this attraction to be like Sindbad's Storybook Voyage or It’s a Small World. I rather just go on Pooh or Monsters if that’s the case.

 

[Parteecia]

I am expecting a drop! I don’t want this attraction to be like Sin Bad Voyage or It’s a Small World. I rather just go on Pooh or Monsters if that’s the case.

But how would it work with the story? Which, come to think of it, takes place in pretty arid areas. Should be suspended alebrijes instead.

 

[DLR92]

But how would it work with the story? Which, come to think of it, takes place in pretty arid areas. Should be suspended alebrijes instead.

Transitioning into the land of the Dead is how I imagined the drop to be perfect fit. There so much elevation to that realm.

 

[Professortango1]

But how would it work with the story? Which, come to think of it, takes place in pretty arid areas. Should be suspended alebrijes instead.

The Land of the Dead is an arid place? Didn't know it was a real location with clear parameters and seasons.

I'm happy that DCA is getting a flume darkrides. It's a very Disney ride system and DCA has been incredibly lacking in attractions that feel classically Disney.

Suspended rides work best when soaring above models for me. I want to be in the middle of the city having it feel giant around me, not small and quaint beneath me.

 

[Parteecia]

Transitioning into the land of the Dead is how I imagined the drop to be perfect fit.

But! you cross a marigold bridge in the sky to get there. From a very arid Santa Cecilia.

I will have to rewatch but I don't remember any rivers flowing through. Isn't it all a big city that goes skyward? Can't you imagine swooping through sets on an alebrije instead of just looking up from a fixed level on a boat?

In Pirates the water - and the drop - make perfect sense.

I would love a water ride but the choice here is illogical.

 

[Disney Irish]

But! you cross a marigold bridge in the sky to get there. From a very arid Santa Cecilia.

I will have to rewatch but I don't remember any rivers flowing through. Isn't it all a big city that goes skyward? Can't you imagine swooping through sets on an alebrije instead of just looking up from a fixed level on a boat?

In Pirates the water - and the drop - make perfect sense.

I would love a water ride but the choice here is illogical.

I don't recall there being a river that ran through the Land of the Dead in Coco, but we never saw the entire land. But as I mentioned a river in the Land of the Dead is a very common in many cultures, the river Styx being the most famous one, so it makes sense here too. But none that I recall that require the need to go down some drop via that river in order to enter the Land of the Dead.

 

[Parteecia]

I don't recall there being a river that ran through the Land of the Dead in Coco, but we never saw the entire land. But as I mentioned a river in the Land of the Dead is a very common in many cultures, the river Styx being the most famous one, so it makes sense here too. But none that I recall that require the need to go down some drop via that river in order to enter the Land of the Dead.

It doesn't make sense if it's not part of this particular mythos just because it's a part of others.

 

[Disney Irish]

It doesn't make sense if it's not part of this particular mythos just because it's a part of others.

Just because it wasn't in the movie, if it wasn't, doesn't mean it can't be added to the mythos.

 

[mickEblu]

But! you cross a marigold bridge in the sky to get there. From a very arid Santa Cecilia.

I will have to rewatch but I don't remember any rivers flowing through. Isn't it all a big city that goes skyward? Can't you imagine swooping through sets on an alebrije instead of just looking up from a fixed level on a boat?

In Pirates the water - and the drop - make perfect sense.

I would love a water ride but the choice here is illogical.

As much as I like the idea of physically emulating our transition into the Land of the Dead with a drop it seems more likely that our transition will occur in the queue or beginning of the ride by using one of those Orange petals considering we will most likely be entering this attraction through the Land of the Living. Then if there is a drop it will be used at the end for a climatic moment. We have to remember there was a very practical reason for POTC having a drop at the beginning of the ride.

 

[Disney Irish]

As much as I like the idea of physically emulating our transition into the Land of the Dead with a drop it seems more likely that our transition will occur in the queue or beginning of the ride by using one of those Orange petals considering we will most likely be entering this attraction through the Land of the Living. Then if there is a drop it will be used at the end for a climatic moment. We have to remember there was a very practical reason for POTC having a drop at the beginning of the ride.

I agree that it'll probably be the petal bridge transition that happens, I would think in the queue.

 

[Gusey]

It's been a while since I've seen Coco, but the skeleton that fades away lives by the water, wonder if they'll incorporate this scene to help explain the boat ride

 

[mickEblu]

I agree that it'll probably be the petal bridge transition that happens, I would think in the queue.

Right. And if we re actually walking over the bridge that would make sense if it happens in the queue and then board the boat in the Land of the Dead.

 

[MistaDee]

But! you cross a marigold bridge in the sky to get there. From a very arid Santa Cecilia.

I will have to rewatch but I don't remember any rivers flowing through. Isn't it all a big city that goes skyward? Can't you imagine swooping through sets on an alebrije instead of just looking up from a fixed level on a boat?

In Pirates the water - and the drop - make perfect sense.

I would love a water ride but the choice here is illogical.

Since when has Disney taken such a literal, restrictive view on what ride systems are "logical?" In the Haunted Mansion we're in fantastical "doom buggies" being pulled through a house, in Frozen we're riding a boat through the inside of a castle. Suspension of disbelief is part of the game.

Plus using a tunnel of love ride system in Pixar Pier actually helps anchor Coco to the land's theme of a seaside amusement pier. I certainly think a suspended omnimover would have been an inspired choice but let's not act like choosing a boat ride for Coco is some great violation of Disney's ethos.

Right. And if we re actually walking over the bridge that would make sense if it happens in the queue and then board the boat in the Land of the Dead.

I wonder if we'll do the transition to the land of the dead as a preshow with special effects like walking through the screen for Runaway Railway