News Paradise Pier Becoming Pixar Pier

[nevol]

They abandoned those things because tourists visiting theme parks in Central Florida don't care about them. I wish they did, bit the 90+ minute waits for Frozen After Ever prove otherwise.

The content is one issue but the style of storytelling is another issue. Is it any wonder that the third grade textbook/game show-like storytelling format wasn't a hit? You look at most blockbusters now and there is a sci-fi/dystopian/speculative fiction/social+political commentary angle in its worldbuilding. There is clear demand for fictional content reflective of current events, but Disney never did that. They split it all up by subject and narrated your way through it rather than exposing you through fiction/plot/drama to those topics in ways to demonstrate their relevance and interrelatedness. Pandora is oddly the best example of what epcot could be and it could just be a degree closer to edutainment, not featuring IP as full metaphor, if it abandoned the edutainment format without abandoning the contents of edutainment. I guess they think they tried enough of that with Mission: Space and Test Track? Fun but not preachy? Now we are in the territory of new storytelling styles but also entirely unrelated/new content.

Also, the argument that Disney Parks' audiences don't care about CES, TEDx, etc, is irrelevant, because those events drive their own attendance and have their own audiences. If Disney operated convention space at Epcot that was relevant to the park's mission statement, people would have to go there even if they didn't want to. It would be a perfect side hustle. Convention space that makes money versus rides that generate attendance but don't immediately make money and are instead overhead. And the theme park fans who don't care won't matter. They'll go and wait in line for Frozen Ever After. But I really think if thousands of extra guests were descending on epcot for a conference, some park audience would get some satisfaction out of stumbling into such events. And just having those going on periodically, or around you, would lend the place some credibility as a destination. It would be a bit like going to the US open without loving tennis. Some people might pop into some matches but equally enjoy strolling the concessions areas, shops, bars, branded experience areas, interactives while other people would never notice the amenities and be focused solely on the tennis.

 

[smile]

They abandoned those things because tourists visiting theme parks in Central Florida don't care about them.

an incorrect assumption, good sir... and a frustrating one -
consider that epcot's peak attendance was in 1987 - that's right... in the 31 years since, with numbers increasing everywhere, it has yet to regain.

the parks numbers were never as strong as in that era and didn't begin to truly diminish until it's founding values were abandoned as the park was dumbed down, little more than decade after opening.

not only was this grand idea actually working, it was a smashing success

 

[FerretAfros]

Although the types of presentations often found at TED-type conferences (as smarmy and self-congratulatory as they often are) fit Epcot perfectly, there's no reason to think that they would build any sort of conference facilities in the park for such an event.

Theme parks are meant to be fun engaging places. Even with interesting content, there's only so many ways to make a lecture 'fun'; it's just not compatible with the types of things most families are looking for on vacation. Lectures also have fairly limited capacity for a theme park setting; where 5,000 seats is a lot for a meeting space, it's a small fraction of a theme park's daily attendance. And Disney's costs of doing business would make it prohibitively expensive for attendees, who could just as easily attend somewhere with better-suited facilities for a more reasonable price; I have to imagine that TED tickets would be an add-on to regular park tickets, not an inclusion.

Furthermore, Epcot is chock-full of spaces that can be used for various corporate events that can and are often converted for various functions. With the various abandoned corporate sponsor lounges, small-scale Innoventions theaters, Odyssey Center, Wonders of Life pavilion, Fountain of Nations stage, World Showplace mega-tent, American Gardens theater, and Showcase Plaza temporary stage, there is no shortage of spaces for convention usage. Even the former Universe of Energy pavilion had the capability to be converted into meeting space for hundreds of attendees. For all of Epcot's many problems, the last thing it needs is more space that will be off-limits to guests 95% of the time; it has more than enough of those already (and this is without discussing the convention space at the various hotels).

There are any number of reasons that Epcot hasn't hosted a TED-type event. But lack of facilities is not one of them.

 

[smile]

Although the types of presentations often found at TED-type conferences (as smarmy and self-congratulatory as they often are) fit Epcot perfectly, there's no reason to think that they would build any sort of conference facilities in the park for such an event.

Theme parks are meant to be fun engaging places. Even with interesting content, there's only so many ways to make a lecture 'fun'; it's just not compatible with the types of things most families are looking for on vacation. Lectures also have fairly limited capacity for a theme park setting; where 5,000 seats is a lot for a meeting space, it's a small fraction of a theme park's daily attendance. And Disney's costs of doing business would make it prohibitively expensive for attendees, who could just as easily attend somewhere with better-suited facilities for a more reasonable price; I have to imagine that TED tickets would be an add-on to regular park tickets, not an inclusion.

Furthermore, Epcot is chock-full of spaces that can be used for various corporate events that can and are often converted for various functions. With the various abandoned corporate sponsor lounges, small-scale Innoventions theaters, Odyssey Center, Wonders of Life pavilion, Fountain of Nations stage, World Showplace mega-tent, American Gardens theater, and Showcase Plaza temporary stage, there is no shortage of spaces for convention usage. Even the former Universe of Energy pavilion had the capability to be converted into meeting space for hundreds of attendees. For all of Epcot's many problems, the last thing it needs is more space that will be off-limits to guests 95% of the time; it has more than enough of those already (and this is without discussing the convention space at the various hotels).

There are any number of reasons that Epcot hasn't hosted a TED-type event. But lack of facilities is not one of them.

my thoughts on the matter come more from imagining an existence where where walts vision maintained inspiration and the principles of ec had remained steadfast -

it's interesting to think of where the park's evolution may have taken it thirty-five years in; surely it could/would have grown and expanded in that time, possibly to have incorporated like ideas and concepts similar to the ones being discussed in an effort to remain on the bleeding edge... we'll never know, of course, but i maintain that there was and remains a market for such an evolution, having been cultivated in the technological boom ec helped usher in that exploded with the internet... a market far more receptive to such things now than in 1982, and it was enormously popular then

an effort to continue bringing the general population experiences they didn't even know they wanted as opposed to merely sticking to what you think they they expect

...and we all see where that takes us...

 

[disneyC97]

It wasn't Coke, it was Pepsi-Cola in the Country Bear Jamboree. That's why Henry the MC used to say "You've got a lot to live and the Country Bears have a lot to give!" at the start of the show, which was an intentional play to the Pepsi jingle of the early 1970's.



Pepsi was served on the west side of the park with the Country Bears and the Golden Horseshoe, and Coke was served on the east side of the park with Refreshment Corner and Tomorrowland Terrace. I have a relative who still calls the Golden Horseshoe building "the Pepsi show", it was that ingrained into her memory banks decades ago. The sponsorship at Disneyland and WDW could be really, really heavy handed back in the 20th century. I think modern 21st century audiences would be shocked by it if it ever returned like Walt did it.

Why they heck would they use that lower level view? There's a horrible sideways and nearly unwatchable view of World of Color from down there. This artwork was done by someone who has never actually been to DCA and has no idea where to watch World of Color from.

It was the same in Florida as well with Pepsi/Frito Lay sponsoring the bears and adjacent Mile Long Bar and Coke in Tomorrowland Terrace.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

not only was this grand idea actually working, it was a smashing success

If it was such a success why did attendance peak only 5 years after opening?

 

[smile]

If it was such a success why did attendance peak only 5 years after opening?

attendance didn't fall off the other side of a mountain in 88...
and, with no major additions, remained stronger than it's been since up until the shift really got under way in the 90s

many theories as to why this transpired, but the numbers tell a story

 

[TROR]

It wasn't Coke, it was Pepsi-Cola in the Country Bear Jamboree. That's why Henry the MC used to say "You've got a lot to live and the Country Bears have a lot to give!" at the start of the show, which was an intentional play to the Pepsi jingle of the early 1970's.



Pepsi was served on the west side of the park with the Country Bears and the Golden Horseshoe, and Coke was served on the east side of the park with Refreshment Corner and Tomorrowland Terrace. I have a relative who still calls the Golden Horseshoe building "the Pepsi show", it was that ingrained into her memory banks decades ago. The sponsorship at Disneyland and WDW could be really, really heavy handed back in the 20th century. I think modern 21st century audiences would be shocked by it if it ever returned like Walt did it.

This is a great post. I knew it was Pepsi Cola, though, as I listen to the soundtrack regularly, just messed up when typing. I've never actually stopped to think about how weird it is that Pepsi presents it when Coca Cola is the classic Disneyland soda but now I know.

 

[DanielBB8]

attendance didn't fall off the other side of a mountain in 88...
and, with no major additions, remained stronger than it's been since up until the shift really got under way in the 90s

many theories as to why this transpired, but the numbers tell a story

To answer the question is to answer it. Disney is in the entertainment business. It can’t imagine the future world.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

To answer the question is to answer it. Disney is in the entertainment business. It can’t imagine the future world.

EPCOT Center's debut was a momentous occasion to be sure, but sadly it only paid lip service to Walt's original vision while leveraging WDI's talents to peddle corporate sponsorships for the likes of GM and Exxon. It was ambitious, dazzling, and fun, but the themes of universal harmony bridged together through technology told within the framework of a Disney theme park had limitations and was predictably unsustainable. In retrospect it's surprising that anyone at Disney thought the company could maintain such a lofty vision for more than a few years when at the time WDI couldn't even predict future technology for Tomorrowland with any accuracy.

 

[DanielBB8]

EPCOT Center's debut was a momentous occasion to be sure, but sadly it only paid lip service to Walt's original vision while leveraging WDI's talents to peddle corporate sponsorships for the likes of GM and Exxon. It was ambitious, dazzling, and fun, but the themes of universal harmony bridged together through technology told within the framework of a Disney theme park had limitations and was predictably unsustainable. In retrospect it's surprising that anyone at Disney thought the company could maintain such a lofty vision for more than a few years when at the time WDI couldn't even predict future technology for Tomorrowland with any accuracy.

I agree. To insist that Disney continue to adhere to it’s original concepts is bad for business and bad for Disney. Epcot, DHS, AK, and DCA couldn’t sustain it. I don’t know about you, but I really don’t enjoy paying $100 to get a warmed over science exhibit that’s designed for school kids. An actual science center is about $30 per person or $120 for a family membership.

Tokyo DisneySeas went a different route that appears to have worked. Just make a fun theme park.

 

[alias8703]

You guys seriously... if you want to discuss something other than Pixar Pier and it's construction progress and news take it to ANOTHER thread. People clicking on this thread are looking for news and updates on PIXAR PIER. Not your opinions on TWDC etc etc etc.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC and take the other discussion elsewhere.

 

[TP2000]

You guys seriously... if you want to discuss something other than Pixar Pier and it's construction progress and news take it to ANOTHER thread. People clicking on this thread are looking for news and updates on PIXAR PIER. Not your opinions on TWDC etc etc etc.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC and take the other discussion elsewhere.

So sorry. Can I get you a Pepsi?

Or how about this photo I took yesterday afternoon during my HealthWalk? The place has been stripped to the stucco, and Paul Pressler would never believe it. Lassetter's Lair is on the right, old gift shop and Duffy pavilion on the left.

 

[TROR]

Well, speaking of Pixar Pier, Slashfilm has an article about how the "new" land. It really shows how pathetic Disney fans are with trying to make the company look better than it really is. It all comes off as a sad denial of reality to me when I see someone stretch to justify their dumb decision. No, Pixar Pier isn't California based because Steve Jobs owned Pixar (yes, that's an actual argument in the article), it's California based because TWDC is creatively bankrupt.

 

[smile]

You guys seriously... if you want to discuss something other than Pixar Pier and it's construction progress and news take it to ANOTHER thread. People clicking on this thread are looking for news and updates on PIXAR PIER. Not your opinions on TWDC etc etc etc.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC and take the other discussion elsewhere.

haha - worth it for the conniption...
i really hope you were trembling

 

[EvilChameleon]

You guys seriously... if you want to discuss something other than Pixar Pier and it's construction progress and news take it to ANOTHER thread. People clicking on this thread are looking for news and updates on PIXAR PIER. Not your opinions on TWDC etc etc etc.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC and take the other discussion elsewhere.

I didn't know you were a moderator. Congratulations on the promotion!

Oh wait...

 

[smile]

To insist that Disney continue to adhere to it’s original concepts is bad for business and bad for Disney. Epcot, DHS, AK, and DCA couldn’t sustain it..

that's about as foolish as having someone from consumer products lead parks & resorts... twice!

 

[DanielBB8]

that's about as foolish as having someone from consumer products lead parks & resorts... twice!

How can it be foolish? The proof is the increased revenue, attendance, and profits. What you measure by success is unsustainable.

 

[DanielBB8]

Well, speaking of Pixar Pier, Slashfilm has an article about how the "new" land. It really shows how pathetic Disney fans are with trying to make the company look better than it really is. It all comes off as a sad denial of reality to me when I see someone stretch to justify their dumb decision. No, Pixar Pier isn't California based because Steve Jobs owned Pixar (yes, that's an actual argument in the article), it's California based because TWDC is creatively bankrupt.

It wasn’t until I read the article that it appears Slashfilm likes Pixar Pier and DCA becames the future of theme parks. That’s right. “Today, the park no longer suffers from a lack of direction or identity, and with the integration of Marvel in the years to come, I doubt it’s going to need to worry about that pesky budget ever again.”

 

[Deleted member 107043]

How can it be foolish? The proof is the increased revenue, attendance, and profits. What you measure by success is unsustainable.

It's entirely possible to disapprove of the current direction yet agree that the strategy is a good move for revenue growth (me). Instead of acceptance fans are struggling to reconcile their aspirations for Disneyland with the reality that the public at large has fully embraced this new age of Disney Parks as a distribution channel for Studio IP. Sorry folks but this is the new normal.