OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot

[TalkingHead]

While they're at it, could Disney remove all the slaveholders from the Hall of Presidents? Their 18th- and 19th-century values offend 21st-century me.

 

[bethymouse]

War.. War never changes..

11/10/15 Can't come soon enough.

Is that your next trip to WDW?

 

[Tigger1988]

Disney waited until Bill Cosby HIMSELF admitted to wrong doing. Get out of here with that whining.

Also, close the thread already. People are repeating the same hyperbolic dreck we read 20 pages ago.

 

[PhotoDave219]

While they're at it, could Disney remove all the slaveholders from the Hall of Presidents? Their 18th- and 19th-century values offend 21st-century me.

That joke was made 12 pages ago.

 

[bethymouse]

@KeeKee But you also need to embrace the past as well. embrace the present.

 

[TyrantBoss]

Allow me to point out the stupidity in your response. Saying that those who fought under the confederate flag somehow deserve our respect is like saying those who fought under the nazi flag deserve our respect. Bottom line is that both groups stood for the absolute wrong thing and both groups were big time LOSERS in their respective wars. Now, if you want to keep giving props to bigoted losers, by all means go ahead and do so. In the meantime, I will just sit back and continue to LMAO at you.

You don't know history. The Civil War was not about slavery. The Civil War was about succession from the United States based on economics. Lincoln used slavery as a rallying cry because he needed more support from the Union citizens. "Up until September 1862, the main focus of the war had been to preserve the Union. With the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation freedom for slaves now became a legitimate war aim."

The south had slaves and used them to help them fight the war. They were an asset so Lincoln introduced slavery as a cause in the war as a strategy. The Civil War was NEVER originally about slavery. It was about Economic freedoms of the southern states.

And the Confederate Flag was simply a battle flag for the southern succession from the Union. It was NEVER a flag of slavery

Learn your history before you sound more ignorant than you already do.

 

[PhotoDave219]

We all know Disney is very well known for knee jerks, politically corrective actions. They will shut down a ride or change the theme if one person complains. They will remove a bust of Bill Cosby before he is proven guilty by a court of law. They will try to erase history and pretend that it didn't happen because it is the current protest of the month by removing the Confederate flag.

So let's make a list of EVERYTHING that Disney has that offends us or could offend someone
- Haunted Mansion should offend Jehovah's Witnesses since they do not approve of spirits or the occult
- Pirates of the Caribbean: Pirates stole, murdered and enslaved people and raped women and SOLD them in auctions. A Woman Auction is even depicted in the POTC ride.
- Peter Pan's Flight: The Native Americans are depicted in a racist caricature in the ride and in the movie they are call Redskins. Close that ride.
- Jungle Cruise: Don't the jungle natives throw spears at or attack your boat? That's racist to portray them as violent.
- Magic Flight of Aladdin: The Arabs and the Jews have been at war for millennia. This entire ride can be construed as offensive by the Jewish population.
- The entryway to Adventureland is offensive. The human skulls they have on the entryway represent jungle natives as savages who kill humans.

That's just a start......but if Disney (and those of you want to support Disney) want to walk down that path....then be careful where it will take you.

You going for apples and oranges here.

It's very, very simple.

If everyone who viewed the flag as a symbol of southern heritage had went after those who co-op'd it as a symbol of white supremacy, racism and hatred and reused to put up with that, the flag wouldn't be relegated to a museum.

Instead, people tolerated that and allowed it to happen.

You can't blame Disney for wanting to get away from a symbol like that. Rather I'm surprised it took this long.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

That joke was made 12 pages ago.

It's not a joke; it's a call of attention to hypocrisy. Sad? Maybe. Joke? It's not intended to be funny.

 

[TyrantBoss]

You know, you see this kinda hyperbole for 22 pages and it kinda loses its effect.

Perhaps we should remove symbols of white supremacy and domestic terrorism even if they started out as something else.... Much as a Tibetan good-luck charm was co-op'd for the ultimate evil this planet has seen.

I find it reprehensibly offensive that there's more vitriol towards people questioning this symbol rather than focusing that vitriol who have co-op'd that symbol into that of hatred and oppression.

So summed up? Don't get ****ed at the people who want to put the flag in a museum, get ****ed at the people who use that flag as a symbol of white supremacy and terrorism.

You miss the point. Disney is taking the flag OUT of a museum. So what do you say to that?
Instead of trying to erase history....educate about history and accurately DEFINE the symbol so it loses it's co-opted symbolism.
But maybe you simply find it easier to erase anything that you don't agree with. That is ignorant.

 

[Tigger1988]

It's not a joke; it's a call of attention to hypocrisy. Sad? Maybe. Joke? It's not intended to be funny.

If you don't understand the difference between a President who owned slaves and a flag that in 2015 is still being used as a symbol of white supremacy (check out Dylan Roof's lovely photoshoot)...you're beyond help.

 

[TyrantBoss]

No, the revised Texas schoolbooks have done a fantastic job of rewriting and revising history and the Civil War.

God forbid they examine their own secession documents and speeches.

We're not talking about Texas....we're talking about Disney. Trying to change the focus are you?

 

[Tigger1988]

You miss the point. Disney is taking the flag OUT of a museum. So what do you say to that?
Instead of trying to erase history....educate about history and accurately DEFINE the symbol so it loses it's co-opted symbolism.
But maybe you simply find it easier to erase anything that you don't agree with. That is ignorant.

You're a day late to this party, why not read the thread instead of trying to restart an argument that's been put to bed already?

 

[TyrantBoss]

While they're at it, could Disney remove all the slaveholders from the Hall of Presidents? Their 18th- and 19th-century values offend 21st-century me.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson....the first two that need to go.

 

[bethymouse]

So much for any hope of ever getting Song of the South released. This controversy will only harden their resolve against anything evocative of the period.

Isn't that where the song "Zipideedoodah" came from? Now... what will they do with Splash Mountain?

 

[TyrantBoss]

You going for apples and oranges here.

It's very, very simple.

If everyone who viewed the flag as a symbol of southern heritage had went after those who co-op'd it as a symbol of white supremacy, racism and hatred and reused to put up with that, the flag wouldn't be relegated to a museum.

Instead, people tolerated that and allowed it to happen.

You can't blame Disney for wanting to get away from a symbol like that. Rather I'm surprised it took this long.

Then why did they SUDDENLY make the change if it is SO offensive? The Confederate flag has been co-opted for centuries.
So you are basically saying that Disney was SUPPORTING White Supremacy all this time until just now.

And they HAD it in a Museum. Their pavilion is basically a museum. And DISNEY is taking it OUT of the their MUSEUM.
So they are going against your belief that it should be relegated to a museum.

Your argument holds no water.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

If you don't understand the difference between a President who owned slaves and a flag that in 2015 is still being used as a symbol of white supremacy...you're beyond help.

"is still being used as a symbol of white supremacy" ... by one ignorant moron who was so isolated and frustrated with the lack of a white supremacy movement in the country (particularly his local area of the, supposedly, evil and racist south) that he actually wrote in his manifesto that he was so frustrated that there was nobody in the country (and, after he couldn't find any local white supremacists, he tried to locate like-minded individuals over the internet) that he had to go and kill people by himself to make a statement.

Again, his biggest frustration was that he couldn't find anyone that agreed with him ... and he said so in his missive to the public. You're tilting at windmills.

 

[TyrantBoss]

You're a day late to this party, why not read the thread instead of trying to restart an argument that's been put to bed already?

Obviously it has not been put to bed if people are still responding passionately.

And I chose not to read 22 pages in hopes that I don't repeat something. Just because ONE person says something that is not the ONLY time it can be said.

But I guess you would rather I be censored as is the history of this country.

 

[PhotoDave219]

You don't know history. The Civil War was not about slavery. The Civil War was about succession from the United States based on economics. Lincoln used slavery as a rallying cry because he needed more support from the Union citizens. "Up until September 1862, the main focus of the war had been to preserve the Union. With the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation freedom for slaves now became a legitimate war aim."

The south had slaves and used them to help them fight the war. They were an asset so Lincoln introduced slavery as a cause in the war as a strategy. The Civil War was NEVER originally about slavery. It was about Economic freedoms of the southern states.

And the Confederate Flag was simply a battle flag for the southern succession from the Union. It was NEVER a flag of slavery

Learn your history before you sound more ignorant than you already do.

The Civil War was indeed about Slavery.

Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens, in what was referred to as the Cornerstone Speech (March 21st, 1861) said : The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.

He went on to say in the very same speech that: Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

The State of Texas, at it's own secession convention in February 1861 said: We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

Clearly I know my history.

 

[JusticeDisney]

You don't know history. The Civil War was not about slavery. The Civil War was about succession from the United States based on economics. Lincoln used slavery as a rallying cry because he needed more support from the Union citizens. "Up until September 1862, the main focus of the war had been to preserve the Union. With the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation freedom for slaves now became a legitimate war aim."

The south had slaves and used them to help them fight the war. They were an asset so Lincoln introduced slavery as a cause in the war as a strategy. The Civil War was NEVER originally about slavery. It was about Economic freedoms of the southern states.

And the Confederate Flag was simply a battle flag for the southern succession from the Union. It was NEVER a flag of slavery

Learn your history before you sound more ignorant than you already do.

Please stop before this entire forum recognizes how idiotic you are. If you don't think that the confederate flag is associated with slavery and bigotry, then you are either blind or kidding yourself or just plain dumb. Or perhaps all of the above.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Then why did they SUDDENLY make the change if it is SO offensive? The Confederate flag has been co-opted for centuries.
So you are basically saying that Disney was SUPPORTING White Supremacy all this time until just now.

And they HAD it in a Museum. Their pavilion is basically a museum. And DISNEY is taking it OUT of the their MUSEUM.
So they are going against your belief that it should be relegated to a museum.

Your argument holds no water.

Actually it does. What you should be asking yourself as a supporter of southern heritage is why you've allowed hate groups to co-op'd your symbol of southern heritage.