OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot

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Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Which do you think is more achievable?
Option #1 ) Offend no one, think better as you say.. and avoid hurting anyone's feelings
Option #2 ) Improve Self-Responsibility and grow thicker skins so that we can all continue to function regardless of what gets thrown at us

Remember, for #1, the target is always moving and you can't argue what offends people or not...

Which option is really a practical way forward?

The problem with the thicker skin argument is that symbol we are currently arguing about was used for generations to repress and terrorize millions of people. It is emblematic of a sickness in American culture that persists to this day. You are essentially telling people who might find the Confederate flag deeply offensive because they or their parents or grandparents met with violence and intimidation at the hands of those proudly displayed it to "Stop whining and get over it." That is very simplistic, and more than a little condescending and patronizing.
 

Evolution

Active Member
To put things in context, Germany forbids displaying of the swastika except in historical or artistic contexts. Neo-nazis instead wear the Confederate Flag.

The flag was revived in the middle of the 20th Century solely as a response to the Civil Rights Movement. It is very much a symbol of institutionalized racism and claiming otherwise is, at best, ignorance of American history.

Completely agree. Kudos to Disney for doing the right thing.
 

Evolution

Active Member
Where does it end. We are changing the names of fish, football teams, and basically putting factual history in the closet in the name of "can't hurt anyone's feelings". Well, I'm bald and barbershop poles hurt my feelings so should I get to demand they all be taken down? I mean, I can't help that I'm bald. So shouldn't my feelings get protected too?

Wow. This has to be a joke, HAS to be.
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
This may come off offensive but who cares if Disney keeps it up or down. Put it back up. I mean yea as a minority effected by the South and slavery, it is offensive but so is Westboro Baptist Church, Neo-Nazis, and Fox News yet I don't see me asking for them to be banned or taken down due to being offensive when they demonstrate or even businesses that actively promote or support openly their agenda. Why? Because its more important to know what one thinks to mitigate that thought process later on, then to squash it and later not know when they may come after you. Rather know who supports those things so i can avoid going to those areas than everyone tipping toeing and not saying how they feel.

This is historical basis in a historical attraction. What next, they are going to take Pochantas out of Fantasmic because it has Native Americans and Caucasians shown in a bad light that offends people?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The problem with the thicker skin argument is that symbol we are currently arguing about was used for generations to repress and terrorize millions of people. It is emblematic of a sickness in American culture that persists to this day. You are essentially telling people who might find the Confederate flag deeply offensive because they or their parents or grandparents met with violence and intimidation at the hands of those proudly displayed it to "Stop whining and get over it."

Not at all.. I'm saying stop believing you can will everyone into a happy only world. Are you going to going to be chasing that impossible goal forever? Or can you pick yourself up and charge forward regardless of those who don't play your game?

something about 'sticks and stones...' comes to mind. Anyone who thinks we can squash all hate in the world is in for a rude awakening.. and are going to crush and ruin far more valuable things in mission in trying to do so.

You can't stop people from trying to hurt you.. and the idea that a society with rules is the only reality we will face are setting themselves up to be steamrolled by the first group that says 'screw your rules'
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
That post is so full of false equivalencies that I don't even know where to begin. For starters, the WBC, Neo-Nazis, and FOX are not represented in any fashion at all in WDW. (I was referring to quinnmac000's post)

What I am getting at is Disney is a huge top company. If they are willing to take a flag out of a historical based attraction, imagine what they would do in regards to their programming on their television networks to avoid conflict and not offend which they have already done in the past.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
What I am getting at is Disney is a huge top company. If they are willing to take a flag out of a historical based attraction, imagine what they would do in regards to their programming on their television networks to avoid conflict and not offend which they have already done in the past.
So we will never get a live action Benny Hill?
 

SoupBone

Well-Known Member
You must not have read the turkey leg hate threads!

You think this thread is full of people looking for something to argue about...

:D


Show them to me. Those people are un-American! Un-American I say! To suggest that a 5 pound turkey leg is anything but pure heaven tramples upon the very ideas that this great nation was founded on.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
imho, the fact the Stars and Bars was not removed proves that this is nothing but reactionary to a groupthink mindset that gets offended easily.

Flags don't oppress people. SYMBOLS do not oppress people.

If that was the case, the Christian Cross should be the most hated symbol of all time (and it appears in Disney in several places) because, throughout one point of history or another, the Cross has been "used" to oppress pretty much every group you can think of, even other Christians. And, it is still used that way today by many groups.

But, that's not the case. Why? Because SYMBOLS do not oppress. No sir.

People oppress people, and utilize social structures to do so. Don't be offended by the symbol, be offended by the people and their actions.

If the issue is the Confederacy (which actually DID all these things people are blaming some flag for, instead of blaming the people who DID them and not the symbol they adopted), then the Stars and Bars should be banished as well.

It's the same mentality as those who are offended by Tom Sawyer and think it should be pulled from school reading lists and bookshelves (yet probably happily bounce along listening to Lil Jon albums without a care in the world...probably with their kid in the back seat soaking up that dreck as well).

But then again, many people love to use the phrase "Uncle Tom" as a slur as well, I mean, it's well known what that means, right? It means a "sellout", a "tattle tale", all with a racial angle, right?!?

But, I bet they haven't read the book. Because, if they had, they would realize that the man was a hero (for those unaware, in the book's climax, Uncle Tom is confronted by his masters to find out where two slave women who ran away were hiding. Uncle Tom knew their whereabouts, but refused to tell. He was threatened with beatings, but he still refused, because he knew the truth and why they ran away. Aside from just the abuses of slavery, these women were being raped by their masters. Uncle Tom kept refusing, and his masters kept asking, and beating him. And they kept beating him, and he never told. Why? Because he refused to tell, and as a result, he gave his life to protect those girls. His masters beat him to death.

That is some straight up heroic stuff right there. How it became a slur? Well, because the masses are ignorant and love to repeat things they've heard instead of actually researching things themselves. Everyone is guilty of it in one way or another (I'm not claiming any moral superiority here). But, the point of education and critical thinking is to learn how to recognize it and hopefully rise above it at some level.

This relates to the flag in the sense that I stated waaaaay back on the first few pages. Context is key.
 
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SoupBone

Well-Known Member
I really wanted to avoid this thread like the plague, but sadly I can't. Did anyone point out Walt's background pre and post WWII? To me, this debate revolves around context, and truthfully, even with written accounts of the war, much is lost to the fact that we weren't there t personally witness the war or its aftermath. We view things the best way we can through historic accounts, but the reality is, even the best historic record is biased (unintentionally) by the authors own personal beliefs during the time its being recorded.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I really wanted to avoid this thread like the plague, but sadly I can't. Did anyone point out Walt's background pre and post WWII? To me, this debate revolves around context, and truthfully, even with written accounts of the war, much is lost to the fact that we weren't there t personally witness the war or its aftermath. We view things the best way we can through historic accounts, but the reality is, even the best historic record is biased (unintentionally) by the authors own personal beliefs during the time its being recorded.
What about his "background pre and post WWII"?
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Oh nonsense. Was it "recognized around the world as a symbol of white pride" in 1981 when the Dukes of Hazzard was the #2 most watched show on television? How about 2005 when the Dukes of Hazzard movie made $111 million in ticket sales?
It was among white supremacists. Here's the campaign flag used by George Lincoln Rockwell in his 1965 bid for the governor of Virginia.
us%7Danp7.gif

South Carolina politician Strom Thurmond ran for president in 1948 under the newly founded States Rights Democratic Party, also known as the Dixiecrats. The party's purpose was clear: "We stand for the segregation of the races," said Article 4 of its platform.


Here are some British Neo-Nazis from last week:
CJEbdnYWUAAf5ex.jpg



Of course, there are many other examples.
 
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