OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot

[Sped2424]

I think they're just trying to avoid any negative publicity.


Besides they have to make room for that Arrendale flag....

lol I think I am like the one person who still adores this film.

 

[flynnibus]

This is one of the best explanations I have ever heard. Very well put. I will likely steal this explanation from you in the future.

BTW... I like cheese.. and don't you think you can come in here and tell me I can't have it

 

[PhotoDave219]

So. You didn't read my comment. Okay. Thanks for pointlessly splitting the hairs.

That's what this message board does… They split every hair to the nth degree.

 

[WDF]

The Confederate Flag that everyone is fighting about should be removed in the interest of historical accuracy. It was never the official flag of the Confederacy. It should be used in battle reenactments or military museum displays where appropriate to the armies that used it as a battle flag.

I am not sure this is correct. The battle flag was not in The American Adventure Hall of Flags.

 

[HRHPrincessAriel]

Ok, but it seems like Southern Pride folks are much more vocal and "in your face" about it, hence the constant confederate flag stuff, it just doesn't make sense to me

I think it's unfair to lump them all into that category. Are there some? Yes. I'm very proud to be a Texan and say I have a lot of pride

Yeah but we're not charged $100/day to get in the smithsonian....

for some "lucky" kids their parent never expose them to things like The Smithsonian. I teach in TX and am amazed at how many of my students have never.ever. been to the Alamo. To me The Alamo should be something every kid in TX should visit.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

That's what this message board does… They split every hair to the nth degree.

It's the last place I expected to find a comparison of the enjoyment of cheese to slavery.

 

[Sage of Time]

That's what this message board does… They split every hair to the nth degree.

We have hair molecules, at this point.

 

[prberk]

That's actually not the confederate flag. Its basically a soldiers flag used in battle and a symbol based on the Scottish independence movement. That flag was used by Lee's army and adopted by other regiments because of the actual confederate flag's resemblance to the American flag which caused friendly fire deaths on both sides during the heat and confusion of battle. It was mainly used by Southern veterans after the war to pay tribute to their fallen comrades and at funerals. It was not used by hate groups and segregationists until the 1930's and 1960's and was used deliberately as a recruiting tool.

My stance is that it shouldn't be in state houses, but the US congress just quietly passed a law to ban confederate flags used one day out of the year on the headstones of dead confederate soldiers in confederate cemetaries. That's wrong and shows the slippery slope of whitewashing. And I think people have acted really poorly on both sides. We forget freed slaves were not welcome with open arms and treated like free Men in the north after the war and racism still exists in most of the country outside the south.

Disney is well within their right to remove it. But remember this, the history doesn't tell the whole story. The vast majority of confederate soldiers were poor, and were drafted and conscripted to fight by an industry that was the Confederacy, run by the wealthy slave holders of the planter class and the top 1% of the southern population.

When did the congress ban the Confederate flag on the gravestones of a confederate cemetery? I am assuming you mean for Memorial Day, which of course was started as Decoration Day and has its roots at Blandford Memorial Cemetery, a confederate cemetery in Petersburg, Virginia, when Nora Fontaine Maury Davidson brought her school children out to the graves of the Confederate dead to place flags on them to remember their sacrifice. That was almost immediately after the war was over. That cemetery, which is part of an historic church and next to the Petersburg National Battlefield, is still in use today, and is a beautiful place on Memorial Day -- usually with American flags AND Confederate flags still adorning the graves. 30,000 Confederate dead are buried there, along with many others who gave their lives in service to America. It is still an operating cemetery. People remember and honor all of them on Memorial Day. I took some students there just this year. It was moving and instructive.

And so is the story of Memorial Day itself. It seems that soon after Mrs. Davidson had started the tradition annually to lead her classes out to decorate the graves, the wife of a former UNION general (Gen. John Logan) came to visit and observed Mrs. Davidson and her class decorating the graves -- and brought it back to her husband and suggested they do the same thing. He agreed and worked to establish it nationwide. He issued an order to his troops to decorate the graves of fallen soldiers, calling it National Decoration Day. It cought on, and eventually led to Memorial Day. It grew and continued out of respect for one another -- all AFTER the war. It was a way to "move on," both with memory and respect.

I think the gentle story of Mrs. Davidson and her Northern contemporary working together to remember the sacrifices and feelings of others while recognizing differences or ways of life is especially instructive.

That is why I will be very disappointed if the Congress has gone as far as to ban this. Please let me know where you found this news.

 

[RandomPrincess]

I am not sure this is correct. The battle flag was not in The American Adventure Hall of Flags.

I was speaking of the flag everyone is fighting about in general not the one in the Hall of Presidents.

 

[s8film40]

You're doing a terrible job at it and you're still being overtly defensive, which borders on disrespect.

The show talks about slavery and the civil war, yes, but the flag itself (The topic of this conversion on symbols, public memory, and sentiment!) is not addressed.

Well I apologize if you perceive this as disrespect. I'm just not seeing how you don't see the connection between the flag and all the others representing the history of the US and its connection to the telling of the story of the American Adventure.

 

[s8film40]

You keep comparing apples and oranges..... I'm very confused.

So am I what does cost of admission have to do with this?

 

[Sage of Time]

Well I apologize if you perceive this as disrespect. I'm just not seeing how you don't see the connection between the flag and all the others representing the history of the US and its connection to the telling of the story of the American Adventure.

Thanks.

I see the connection. I think that connection should be explained in a more elegant and respectful manner.

 

[englanddg]

No the stars and bars flag

not be confused with the Naval Ensign here is a comparision shot

Interesting. Thanks for that!

 

[PhotoDave219]

So am I what does cost of admission have to do with this?

It goes back to the museum versus entertainment argument…

 

[flynnibus]

So. You didn't read my comment. Okay. Thanks for pointlessly splitting the hairs.

No... it speaks directly to your post. The crux of the matter is not the SPECIFIC item being in dispute... but simply that the matter could be disputed at all! "Root cause" -- look it up. Different from 'instigation'. Or use 'fundamental issue' if you like...

The same situation could play out with something like... Gun Control.. Abortion... or other controversial topics where the constitution does not grant the federal government say over the matter, but the Fed and some other states believe they can mandate it through the fed. You say 'stronger states rights' -- they were fighting over rights they had from the start... but the idea of the fed and the relations between the states had become strained over the differences in opinion on the matter. Here, the states felt strongly enough (for all the economic and other reasons we all know) that this was worth leaving the union over and risking war.

Too often people are blinded by the fact that the idea of the federal government as we know it today is nothing like what it was prior to the civil war, great depression, or WWII. All periods where great expansion of federal powers were enacted and became the norm, even without direct changes to the constitution.

 

[misterID]

Well there's a difference between the heritage of New York, the heritage of California and the heritage of the South.

Yes, there's always dark periods but I'm not sure I would trivialize the civil war and slavery by calling it simply a "dark period"

That's not trivializing. At all. And I feel that's a bit disengenuous in misrepresenting my post, as many sections of this country have not come to terms with their own dark moments; New York for instance has a long history of racism and violent descrimnation against Irish, Jews, Hispanics and Blacks, the latter who still live in the ghettos and projects they were displaced to from the south, and are still dealing with the realities of that dark history today in New York.

The south has not fully accepted our history, but it does not define us, the way other states try to paint us without accepting their own stained history.

 

[s8film40]

Thanks.

I see the connection. I think that connection should be explained in a more elegant and respectful manner.

Well I think when your telling a story you don't have to spell out every detail.

For example let's say your watching a movie about a confederate soldier. You don't necessarily need a narrator saying "now you see here a soldier on a horse with a flag. That flag is a Confedrate flag and this is what it represents". Instead it would just be there and through the story you learn what it represents.

 

[arko]

When did the congress ban the Confederate flag on the gravestones of a confederate cemetery? I am assuming you mean for Memorial Day, which of course was started as Decoration Day and has its roots at Blandford Memorial Cemetery, a confederate cemetery in Petersburg, Virginia, when Nora Fontaine Maury Davidson brought her school children out to the graves of the Confederate dead to place flags on them to remember their sacrifice. That was almost immediately after the war was over. That cemetery, which is part of an historic church and next to the Petersburg National Battlefield, is still in use today, and is a beautiful place on Memorial Day -- usually with American flags AND Confederate flags still adorning the graves. 30,000 Confederate dead are buried there, along with many others who gave their lives in service to America. It is still an operating cemetery. People remember and honor all of them on Memorial Day. I took some students there just this year. It was moving and instructive.

And so is the story of Memorial Day itself. It seems that soon after Mrs. Davidson had started the tradition annually to lead her classes out to decorate the graves, the wife of a former UNION general (Gen. John Logan) came to visit and observed Mrs. Davidson and her class decorating the graves -- and brought it back to her husband and suggested they do the same thing. He agreed and worked to establish it nationwide. He issued an order to his troops to decorate the graves of fallen soldiers, calling it National Decoration Day. It cought on, and eventually led to Memorial Day. It grew and continued out of respect for one another -- all AFTER the war. It was a way to "move on," both with memory and respect.

I think the gentle story of Mrs. Davidson and her Northern contemporary working together to remember the sacrifices and feelings of others while recognizing differences or ways of life is especially instructive.

That is why I will be very disappointed if the Congress has gone as far as to ban this. Please let me know where you found this news.

It was actually earlier this week and it is limited to federal cemeteries in the south, basically 2, the Andersonville and Vicksburg cemeteries in Georgia and Mississippi.

 

[s8film40]

It goes back to the museum versus entertainment argument…

So what does that have to do with it? If admission is charged it's not a museum? I've been to some pretty expensive museums.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That's not trivializing. At all. And I feel that's a bit disengenuous in misrepresenting my post, as many sections of this country have not come to terms with their own dark moments; New York for instance has a long history of racism and violent descrimnation against Irish, Jews and Blacks, the latter who still live in the ghettos and projects they were displaced to from the south, and are still dealing with the realities of that dark history today in New York.

The south has not fully accepted our history, but it does not define us, the way other states try to paint us without accepting their own stained history.

No, I feel you're sugarcoating the south's history by simply referring to it as a "dark period." This entire discussion has nothing to do with what happened elsewhere; rather its about what happened in the South.