OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot

[RandomPrincess]

The battle flag that the country at large is fighting about was not the one that was taken down by Disney. The one that was on display at Disney was the third official flag of the Confederacy, however. And it did contain an element that was the battle flag (ir the flag of the army of VA, take your pick on what to call it).

As a side note, the enlingated "confederate flag" that most people think of isnt even truly the battle flag. The battle flag was square. The "modern confederate flag" that is a rectangular version of the battle flag didnt come about until the 20th century.

Very true.

 

[Lucky]

Exactly… It was the battle flag for the Army of the Potomac and the Naval flag as well.

It's time for it to take it's appropriate place in history and that is in the museum.

The battle flag that the country at large is fighting about was not the one that was taken down by Disney. The one that was on display at Disney was the third official flag of the Confederacy, however. And it did contain an element that was the battle flag (ir the flag of the army of VA, take your pick on what to call it).

Just to clarify one point, Lee's army was called the Army of Northern Virginia, and it opposed the Union's Army of the Potomac throughout the war.

 

[misterID]

I'd like to know what "southern pride" actually means, but that's not directly relevant to this conversation.

Family, art, history, literature, music, food, enviorment, stubbornness, and our beautiful accents. At least for me. Every region of the United States has a sense of pride about itself. From New York to Boston and California and Oregon we have pride of who we are and where we come from. Unfortunately the south is questioned over this sentiment as if it's some alien notion, and the only one that has negative connotations... There are dark periods and aspects to all our heritage.

 

[englanddg]

Just to clarify one point, Lee's army was called the Army of Northern Virginia, and it opposed the Union's Army of the Potomac throughout the war.

Correct. And, Bonny Blue was not the flag of the Navy of the Potomac. However, it was a Confederate Naval Flag, and even a state flag for a period (Missouri? Perhaps? Google Bonny Blue and you'll find it.

 

[flynnibus]

So that's where I come from on what is a museum.

and so you can relate when one may argue why there is an IMAX theater in three of the museums and what their content really is... another format to present the content or to stimulate thought. Kind of like how a large AA show instead of just walls of pictures

Even the Smithsonian tries to make education into an entertaining or inspiring format.. and not just textbooks

 

[PhotoDave219]

Family, art, history, literature, music, food, enviorment, stubbornness, and our beautiful accents. At least for me. Every region of the United States has a sense of pride about itself. From New York to Boston and California and Oregon we have pride of who we are and where we come from. Unfortunately the south is questioned over this sentiment as if it's some alien notion, and the only one that has negative connotations... There are dark periods and aspects to all our heritage.

Well there's a difference between the heritage of New York, the heritage of California and the heritage of the South.

Yes, there's always dark periods but I'm not sure I would trivialize the civil war and slavery by calling it simply a "dark period"

 

[arko]

Correct. And, Bonny Blue was not the flag of the Navy of the Potomac. However, it was a Confederate Naval Flag, and even a state flag for a period (Missouri? Perhaps? Google Bonny Blue and you'll find it.

the rectangular version was used as the second confederate naval jack

 

[PhotoDave219]

and so you can relate when one may argue why there is an IMAX theater in three of the museums and what their content really is... another format to present the content or to stimulate thought. Kind of like how a large AA show instead of just walls of pictures

Even the Smithsonian tries to make education into an entertaining or inspiring format.. and not just textbooks

Yeah but we're not charged $100/day to get in the smithsonian....

 

[flynnibus]

I'm from Japan and never associated the Confederate flag with racism as much as I have associated it with the history and building of the United States.

I think we need to remove the rising sun flag and it's symbols from Japan... obviously the attrocities that the Japanese commited in the 20th century against it's neighbors are offensive and we should remove that symbol to avoid offending people.

Oh wait... it's other nationalities that would be offended... our moral tent pole doesn't cover then

 

[englanddg]

the rectangular version was used as the second confederate naval jack

Of Bonny Blue, right?

 

[s8film40]

Yeah but we're not charged $100/day to get in the smithsonian....

That's what it cost me when I went. Hotel, transportation costs etc. Sure the museums are "free" because they're government funded but the trip isn't.

 

[flynnibus]

Look again. The 1st and 3rd national flags of the Confederate States of America are both on display in the Hall of Flags. According to the Orlando Sentinel article, only the 3rd national flag was taken down. Like you said, most people probably don't even recognize the 1st national flag as a confederate flag.

Which just re-iterates... these changes are about emotions and not actually based in rational associations, etc. They are placating to the mob and what the lay associate. Beyond what the rubes think... no need to actually create the separation.

 

[ChrisFL]

Family, art, history, literature, music, food, enviorment, stubbornness, and our beautiful accents. At least for me. Every region of the United States has a sense of pride about itself. From New York to Boston and California and Oregon we have pride of who we are and where we come from. Unfortunately the south is questioned over this sentiment as if it's some alien notion, and the only one that has negative connotations... There are dark periods and aspects to all our heritage.

Ok, but it seems like Southern Pride folks are much more vocal and "in your face" about it, hence the constant confederate flag stuff, it just doesn't make sense to me

 

[arko]

Of Bonny Blue, right?

No the stars and bars flag

not be confused with the Naval Ensign here is a comparision shot

 

[Sage of Time]

Uhh... that palace there represents the monarcy... and the totalitarian government that instigated and supported those things... kind of like a flag that represents a government?

The buildings in the UK pavilion are amalgamations, just as the American Adventure is built in the federal style.

 

[HRHPrincessAriel]

There's a movement to end reenactments and to ban Gone With The Wind. There has even been pushing to move the flag to the basements of museums and out of sight.
http://www.thewrap.com/film-critic-calls-for-banishment-of-gone-with-the-wind-over-insidious-racism/

Wow.just wow. It so important for kids (and adults)to know these things. My dad taught at VMI and I was allowed to miss school every year for New Market Day. Even at 10-12 the ceremonies were very moving. It's important to remember both sides and what happened so that history doesn't repeat itself.

I'm not sure if it's still standard practice or not but when we lived in Germany the military would take their new members to concentration camps for them to visit. I remember sitting in the car at auschwitz watching them go inside.

One of the most poignant moments in my life was walking the Nuremburg Rally grounds. I was reading something when an older gentleman missing an arm came up to me and started speaking in German. I couldn't grasp what what he was saying so he motioned for my dad to come over. You could tell he was very emotional. He told my dad he had unwillingly fought and that we should never forget what happened.


The setting the flag is/was in at WDW doesn't bother me. I'll be honest I never noticed before. It wasn't displayed in an obscene way. It's not being raised and lowered on the flag pole on Main Street. It's in an educational type setting.

You can't change what happened in the past but you can educate others about it.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That's what it cost me when I went. Hotel, transportation costs etc. Sure the museums are "free" because they're government funded but the trip isn't.

You keep comparing apples and oranges..... I'm very confused.

 

[Sage of Time]

I am simply trying to understand if you saw the show how you were able to miss the explanation of what this flag represented. I have experienced this attraction many times it seemed obvious to me.

You're doing a terrible job at it and you're still being overtly defensive, which borders on disrespect.

The show talks about slavery and the civil war, yes, but the flag itself (The topic of this conversion on symbols, public memory, and sentiment!) is not addressed.

 

[arko]

The Smithsonian is a private institution.. not government

this is incorrect it is established as trust and is legally a body of the U.S. government administered by the U.S. government.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

If you like cheese... and I as the federal government come in and say "you can't have cheese!!" -- and you argue "you have no power to regulate what I eat... I don't recognize your claim"... and I say "well me and my buddies all agree, you can't have cheese!! and we get to tell you how things are"... and you say "well screw this, I'm not going to accept you trying to say I can't have cheese and i'll start my own government"

Is the conflict over cheese? Or is it over the conflict over who has the authority to define what people can and can't do?

Slavery was the point being disputed... but the root issue in dispute is over federal powers and what states would respect between each other. The slave economy states wanted their independence to do what they wanted, and were fired up over other states trying to manipulate and disregard their choices. Yes, some put "we will ensure CHEESE is not challenged" in their declarations... as basically the middle finger to those who thought to remove it because it was the item trying to be regulated.

So. You didn't read my comment. Okay. Thanks for pointlessly splitting the hairs.