On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[Phil12]

Yeah, back in the day, they had those lifetime soda refill mugs.

 

[UNCgolf]

It’s possible but I think lightcycle will have a long line/virtual gestapo style queue forever. The fact that isn’t more basic and is a disneyfied amusement type ride will build a strong following quickly. Then don’t all have to be FOP...sometimes primal works. RNRC is the best example of that.

And guardians is ok...but silly longterm because it’s not a mainstrem
Marvel pull Franchise. Using whatever they had seems short sighted. Just my opinion

I personally think the two Guardians movies are among the best of the MCU overall. Most of the other characters with multiple films have at least one that isn't good outside of Captain America and Ant-Man, but I think the GotG movies top both of them.

With that said, they certainly don't have the overall draw of some of those other characters, so you're right.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I personally think the two Guardians movies are among the best of the MCU overall. Most of the other characters with multiple films have at least one that isn't good outside of Captain America and Ant-Man, but I think the GotG movies top both of them.

With that said, they certainly don't have the overall draw of some of those other characters, so you're right.

I like the guardians movies a lot. One more than 2...

But I think when the mcu dust settles...and it will and maybe much sooner than people think...guardians will be forgotten more. I think the default marvel characters will still rise to the top more quickly.

The Caps are the best...no question. I agree with you there and with ant man.

I think the thors are the biggest stinkers frankly...and the iron man’s were bad but Downey was good.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cedar Point isn’t a carnie park, I’m getting tired of the subset of Disney Fans who feel that there is no viable option outside of Disney, heck, the way both parks are operating I would argue currently Universal is a better experience.

Couldn’t agree more.

I won’t say universal is a “better” overall time...but it’s way better than disneyphiles will tolerate being said. The main problem with URO is that the food and hotels are vastly inferior...there a big strength of wdw still over it (even if they are sliding back there as well)

But there are other places that provide very nice experiences not run by Disney.

First...the most “pure disney” spot is Anaheim now...the nickel and dining plan diming in Orlando puts a stink on it.

Beyond that...

Busch parks are well maintained and provide quality and variety.
It’s a shame sea world has gotten all the bad PR...they are great parks lead by Orlando.

Cedar fairs parks are well run and well appointed. They have been managed well. They are not six flags.

There are other regionals that are more than worthy of time...Hershey and Dollywood come to mind.


I feel like the shade thrown by Disney fans are because they never go anywhere else...or predetermine the parks are inferior before setting foot in them.

You know where else that’s a thing? Disney cruise line...lauded over and over again as “the best”....

When said by those that won’t go on others or make the carnival 1992 comparisons.

They also don’t notice that the service of celebrity ships and the sheer amenities of the RCL oasis and quantum class ships put Disney’s to shame...for less.

Pay no attention to the rodent behind the curtain.

 

[_caleb]

I don't get the nostalgia for the original EPCOT. I had been there a handful of times pre-1995 (pre-teen years) and then not again until 2009+ (well into adulthood), and I found the latter visits to be far superior.

Soarin'? Compared to the Cabaret and the other thing that either preceded or replaced it? C'mon. Original EPCOT + The Land = Solely the boat ride. Substantial gain.

Mission: Space? I have vivid memories of my childhood, but one of them is not Horizons. I would have remembered something about it if there was something worth remembering. Substantial gain.

Test Track? Ok, the original version was better than the computer version, but the computer version still stands on its own as a great ride. But like Horizons, I have no childhood memory of World of Motion...Couldn't have been worth remembering. Substantial gain.

The Universe of Energy (even pre-Ellen and BNTSG)...Fancy moving auditorium seating and some dinosaurs. That was nap time. No big loss.

The Wonders of Life...Ok, the loss of Body Wars was a substantial loss.

The Living Seas...Ok, a de-theming from Nemo and a return of the Hydrolators would be welcome. But otherwise, it still largely is what it is.

Journey Into Imagination...Ehh, Figment is still Figment, Honey I Shrunk The Audience was cool, seeing Captain EO again was cool, but I really don't mourn either of their losses. The jumping fountains are still the best part.

Spaceship Earth is still Spaceship Earth.

Everything not around the perimeter of Future World (with the exception of Spaceship Earth) was, and still is, a complete dead (to me) zone and is inconveniently large when crossing.

The World Showcase...Other than the conversion from Maelstrom, I can't think of anything else that isn't substantially the same as it always was.

Summing up the substantial gains/losses:

+3 (Soarin', Mission: Space, Test Track)
-1 (Body Wars)

I'm just not seeing the nostalgia.

I grew up a Disneylander and only visited WDW once in 1989 until the last few years. I vaguely remembered Horizons and had no recollection of World of Motion despite having been on the ride. Years later, after my second trip to Epcot as an adult, I actually posted a very similar opinion to yours on the thread about unpopular WDW opinions.

But since then, I’ve read up on Epcot, spoken with Imagineers who worked on Epcot project, and watched all of @marni1971’s Ultimate Tribute videos. As I’ve learned more about what Epcot was (and what it was intended to be), I’ve come to appreciate it more.

Epcot was never intended to be a theme park in the sense that Magic Kingdom or Disneyland was. The focus was on edutainment- engaging guests with interactive exhibits about science, culture, and technology. The sponsorships were intended to be partnerships that allowed guests to learn from leaders in different fields. Again, more like a World’s Fair.

The ”rides” weren’t really rides in the traditional sense. Disney was using ride mechanisms to help immerse guests in the learning experiences. So when Disney sticks Soarin’ (an entertainment ride) into The Land (and edutainment pavilion), it broke the concept a bit. Multiply these additions across the park, and neglect and poor maintenance, and I can see how fans would be really disappointed by what Epcot has become.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I grew up a Disneylander and only visited WDW once in 1989 until the last few years. I vaguely remembered Horizons and had no recollection of World of Motion despite having been on the ride. Years later, after my second trip to Epcot as an adult, I actually posted a very similar opinion to yours on the thread about unpopular WDW opinions.

But since then, I’ve read up on Epcot, spoken with Imagineers who worked on Epcot project, and watched all of @marni1971’s Ultimate Tribute videos. As I’ve learned more about what Epcot was (and what it was intended to be), I’ve come to appreciate it more.

Epcot was never intended to be a theme park in the sense that Magic Kingdom or Disneyland was. The focus was on edutainment- engaging guests with interactive exhibits about science, culture, and technology. The sponsorships were intended to be partnerships that allowed guests to learn from leaders in different fields. Again, more like a World’s Fair.

The ”rides” weren’t really rides in the traditional sense. Disney was using ride mechanisms to help immerse guests in the learning experiences. So when Disney sticks Soarin’ (an entertainment ride) into The Land (and edutainment pavilion), it broke the concept a bit. Multiply these additions across the park, and neglect and poor maintenance, and I can see how fans would be really disappointed by what Epcot has become.

The Epcot concept was the greatest amusement concept ever conceived and built. Not only in scale...but in adherence to an ideology.

We shall never see its kind again.

I only put a few in its class

Tivoli gardens...Disneyland...Luna park...

 

[Getachew]

I grew up a Disneylander and only visited WDW once in 1989 until the last few years. I vaguely remembered Horizons and had no recollection of World of Motion despite having been on the ride. Years later, after my second trip to Epcot as an adult, I actually posted a very similar opinion to yours on the thread about unpopular WDW opinions.

But since then, I’ve read up on Epcot, spoken with Imagineers who worked on Epcot project, and watched all of @marni1971’s Ultimate Tribute videos. As I’ve learned more about what Epcot was (and what it was intended to be), I’ve come to appreciate it more.

Epcot was never intended to be a theme park in the sense that Magic Kingdom or Disneyland was. The focus was on edutainment- engaging guests with interactive exhibits about science, culture, and technology. The sponsorships were intended to be partnerships that allowed guests to learn from leaders in different fields. Again, more like a World’s Fair.

The ”rides” weren’t really rides in the traditional sense. Disney was using ride mechanisms to help immerse guests in the learning experiences. So when Disney sticks Soarin’ (an entertainment ride) into The Land (and edutainment pavilion), it broke the concept a bit. Multiply these additions across the park, and neglect and poor maintenance, and I can see how fans would be really disappointed by what Epcot has become.

No doubt Disney's focus now is to make EPCOT more like MK (for $$$ purposes), which I can understand many people being upset about.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No doubt Disney's focus now is to make EPCOT more like MK (for $$$ purposes), which I can understand many people being upset about.

They could do that with a more uniform approach...instead of a piecemeal, thematic mess.

 

[Lilofan]

Credit card debt is a hell of a drug.

Slaves to Debt- Life in the USA for many. Businesses want your money, they don't care if you are in debt. Credit card debt is another epidemic.

 

[Lilofan]

Yeah, back in the day, they had those lifetime soda refill mugs.

Back in the day one had to earn a fastpass the hard way. Getting early to the park, running or speedwalking to each attraction and getting fastpass tickets. Now some complain they were not fast enough on their smartphones to get fastpasses. Pass the kleenex..

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Stocks? They mean nothing. Acquiring a company that puts you in a massive leveraged situation is not a good long term strategy. What did they get? A catalog of movies. Disney will survive but will never assume they are immune to the worlds problems.

They wanted the TV production companies and Hulu/Star.

The Fox deal wasn’t like Pixar/Marvel/Lucasfilm. It’s an acknowledgment that the only way Iger saw Disney building a general entertainment streamer was to buy one because the company couldn’t build up one internally like Netflix did.

 

[stretchsje]

So if water parks are the one bright spot in the industry, why do the Disney water parks remain closed?

 

[ParentsOf4]

I don't get the nostalgia for the original EPCOT. I had been there a handful of times pre-1995 (pre-teen years) and then not again until 2009+ (well into adulthood), and I found the latter visits to be far superior.

Soarin'? Compared to the Cabaret and the other thing that either preceded or replaced it? C'mon. Original EPCOT + The Land = Solely the boat ride. Substantial gain.

Mission: Space? I have vivid memories of my childhood, but one of them is not Horizons. I would have remembered something about it if there was something worth remembering. Substantial gain.

I'm just not seeing the nostalgia.

Like you, I don't feel much nostalgia for the original Epcot.

My first trip to Epcot was as a poor undergrad in May 1983, several months after it opened.

I found Epcot somewhat boring. The Magic Kingdom was much more entertaining for the group I was with. (We were in our 20s.)

The two things I miss the most?

1. An uncompromising commitment to quality.

For those of you too young to remember what Disney quality used to be like, I suggest visiting the most Disneyesque resort still in existence: Tokyo Disneyland.

2. Prices!

This is not a matter of the "everybody made less" counterargument. Even taking into account inflation, cost of living, minimum wage, etc., Disney genuinely cost much, much less than it does today. Disney never was a cheap vacation but it once was much more affordable.

Iger's most lasting legacies are a reduction in quality and price increases that have far outpaced the consumer's ability to pay them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So if water parks are the one bright spot in the industry, why do the Disney water parks remain closed?

Simple: they are there just to lengthen the trips of out of town travelers - particularly internationals - and don’t really make much.

It’s an easy place for them to straight up save operational costs.

A lot of the lifeguarding staff isn’t there with the IP/CPs out as well.

Waterparks aren’t coming back anytime soon.

 

[larryz]

I don't get the nostalgia for the original EPCOT. I had been there a handful of times pre-1995 (pre-teen years) and then not again until 2009+ (well into adulthood), and I found the latter visits to be far superior.

Soarin'? Compared to the Cabaret and the other thing that either preceded or replaced it? C'mon. Original EPCOT + The Land = Solely the boat ride. Substantial gain.

Mission: Space? I have vivid memories of my childhood, but one of them is not Horizons. I would have remembered something about it if there was something worth remembering. Substantial gain.

Test Track? Ok, the original version was better than the computer version, but the computer version still stands on its own as a great ride. But like Horizons, I have no childhood memory of World of Motion...Couldn't have been worth remembering. Substantial gain.

The Universe of Energy (even pre-Ellen and BNTSG)...Fancy moving auditorium seating and some dinosaurs. That was nap time. No big loss.

The Wonders of Life...Ok, the loss of Body Wars was a substantial loss.

The Living Seas...Ok, a de-theming from Nemo and a return of the Hydrolators would be welcome. But otherwise, it still largely is what it is.

Journey Into Imagination...Ehh, Figment is still Figment, Honey I Shrunk The Audience was cool, seeing Captain EO again was cool, but I really don't mourn either of their losses. The jumping fountains are still the best part.

Spaceship Earth is still Spaceship Earth.

Everything not around the perimeter of Future World (with the exception of Spaceship Earth) was, and still is, a complete dead (to me) zone and is inconveniently large when crossing.

The World Showcase...Other than the conversion from Maelstrom, I can't think of anything else that isn't substantially the same as it always was.

Summing up the substantial gains/losses:

+3 (Soarin', Mission: Space, Test Track)
-1 (Body Wars)

I'm just not seeing the nostalgia.

I have to give Innoventions the props for showing me something I had never before seen...

A clean garbage truck.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

2. Prices!

This is not a matter of the "everybody made less than too" counterargument. Even taking into account inflation, cost of living, minimum wage, etc., Disney genuinely cost much, much less than it does today. Disney never was a cheap vacation but it once was much more affordable.

Iger's most lasting legacies are a reduction in quality and prices that have far outpaced the consumer's ability to pay them.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wow. And to think it was just a few years ago I almost got kicked off another not-to-be-named forum for suggesting that WDW needed more thrill coasters

Your suggestion for more thrill coasters is welcome here.

Unfortunately for you, only Disney leadership can make that happen and they've pretty much excluded the idea under the banner of "more family friendly."

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I like the guardians movies a lot. One more than 2...

But I think when the mcu dust settles...and it will and maybe much sooner than people think...guardians will be forgotten more. I think the default marvel characters will still rise to the top more quickly.

The Caps are the best...no question. I agree with you there and with ant man.

I think the thors are the biggest stinkers frankly...and the iron man’s were bad but Downey was good.

How quickly we forget about DeadPool? By far the best for me. In the Marvel Universe, with guardians a close second then caps. I get that nothing could ever be done in the parks, even if allowed with pool but they are some serious good fun adult movies.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think you’re thinking quite selfishly though. Yes, I as an adult male with a decent job & no kids can save up over time for an expensive trip to Disney. I do a lot of traveling as well and I still think Disney is highly expensive, especially if you don’t have a love for theme parks. I’ve been to many music festivals these past few years too. Those too are things for singles & couples. Try buying EDC tickets for a family of 4.

I agree with you about the price being where it needs to be to bring among a higher quality of guests. Most don’t spend $300 on a ticket and want to act disorderly. That’s a lot to lose, unlike Sixflags & Seaworld.

Some who spends $300 on a ticket, say to themselves, “I spent $300 on a ticket, I am entitled to do what ever I want”.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How quickly we forget about DeadPool? By far the best for me. In the Marvel Universe, with guardians a close second then caps. I get that nothing could ever be done in the parks, even if allowed with pool but they are some serious good fun adult movies.

I think the future is X-men. They need to bring that in and take the mcu a different direction. It will allow them to not strangle the avengers characters 4x a year and let it breath a little