On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A bunch of high income earners that can “take it or leave it” because they have high income toys and diversions at home.

It didn’t USED to be that way...it used to be anchored in the middle class roadtrips/summer vacations...but they’ve taken it down another path.

No sense fighting the truth...it will win.

 

[el_super]

I think it's more about execution. The Fun Wheel/Pal Around doesn't try to hide what it is.

When it opened that was the biggest complaint levied against it.

In FL, they have been taking these things and dressing them up (and marketing them) like E's with an excessively high budget for what they are. All, IMO, of course.

I agree the marketing is out of control. However, building an attraction should still meet the need no matter how it is marketed. But for all the complains about capacity being removed, they added Little Mermaid to Fantasyland and kept Carousel of Progress and Peoplemover open, but mostly just get "meh" reactions from people. Deciding they need more mid-tier attractions, and building mid-tier attractions that can actually entice a crowd and drive revenue are two different things. It's a rare occasion indeed when a mid-tier attraction can actually pull its weight.

But yeah... as others have said part of the problem is the huge costs of WDI Attractions.

 

[FutureCEO]

I think you meant to type something else and it came out Carousel of Progress. It wasn’t that way before the pandemic. Are they giving out free cupcakes or something as you watch the show?

Update to the Carousel of Progress showcasing the progress (non inventions) that humans have made since the Spanish flu to Covid - 19. All you see is a big blank screen.

 

[UNCgolf]

They serve the same function, wholesome entertainment for the whole family. What’s interesting is that we are quibbling about the slight difference in approaches (amusement parks are mostly about the attractions, which are mostly rides, and don’t have an underlying story where as theme parks use their attractions which are far more varied and complex to transport you to a fantasy world) at a time when Disney World has been reduced to an elaborately themed amusement park (it’s currently all about the rides, there is no entertainment, no culminating night shows, just themed rides and shops.)

That's also part of the reason people are going to Disney at the moment. I know I wouldn't go right now.

But that also ignores that most of the rides that are functioning are highly themed rides featuring stories, which is still a significant difference from amusement parks.

 

[UNCgolf]

Yes, a bunch of theme park snobs

I honestly feel sorry for you if you're this bad at reading and understanding things.

"People don't like exactly the same things I like for exactly the same reasons? IMPOSSIBLE!"

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I love that park but the people who visit....yikes.

And this coming from someone who just referred to others on this forum as snobs.

 

[UNCgolf]

There wasn't anything to comprehend in your post because it was full of nonsense

So, just to clarify, you think the fact that some people like different things than you is nonsense? What kind of world are you living in?

Your entire point has been that the coasters at Disney aren't very good and are much better at regional parks. Nobody is arguing against that. You just seem unable to understand that a lot of people don't care about coasters and prefer themed/story rides. I can't figure out why you are incapable of grasping that.

 

[UNCgolf]

Just pointing out the hypocritical nature of the argument against regional parks when places like DinoLand and Toy Story Land exist

Yeah, which are awful and should be bulldozed. No chance of that happening to Toy Story Land, but Dinoland will probably be eliminated eventually (Primeval Whirl being closed permanently seems like the first step).

But the point (or at least my point) wasn't that regional parks are cheap and terrible compared to Disney or anything remotely along those lines. It was just that they are mainly focused on roller coasters and other thrill rides where the physical experience is all that matters. That's fine (tons of people enjoy it) but it's not what Disney is doing (or attempting to do). Disney couldn't compete with that even if they wanted to, because those parks already have tons of huge coasters. They'd always be playing catch-up, and there'd be little reason for people to travel to Disney just for coasters when they have a regional park that's just as good or better.

If your main interest is coasters, Disney isn't really for you.

 

[_caleb]

Careful opening of certain gates allow some of the animals to feed themselves. And, as a bonus, less overall mouths to feed.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A Disney vacation isn't expensive if you save properly. I don't know why people demand the supposed industry leader charge cheap admission. Look at the kind of guests SeaWorld attracts because their admission is so cheap. I love that park but the people who visit....yikes.

Most Americans have little to no savings...and because credit was widely pushed/embraced at the end of the 20th century...savings aren’t required for many purchases. But the bill comes due.

I’m not saying I disagree with your stance...it just isn’t the way it goes.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

A Disney vacation isn't expensive if you save properly. I don't know why people demand the supposed industry leader charge cheap admission. Look at the kind of guests SeaWorld attracts because their admission is so cheap. I love that park but the people who visit....yikes.

Hmmm, not expensive but you need to save properly to go? Sounds expensive to me

 

[_caleb]

These Tweets by two people who seem to know about this kind of stuff (one a former forum member) seem relevant:

When was the last time Eddie Sotto was actually in Disneyland? Zephyr is a carnival ride that has to shut down if there’s even a hint of wind and Jolly Trolly in Toontown (A land with more broken things than working things) was ignored for years and closed down in 2003.

 

[ElvisMickey]

Yeah, which are awful and should be bulldozed. No chance of that happening to Toy Story Land, but Dinoland will probably be eliminated eventually (Primeval Whirl being closed permanently seems like the first step).

But the point (or at least my point) wasn't that regional parks are cheap and terrible compared to Disney or anything remotely along those lines. It was just that they are mainly focused on roller coasters and other thrill rides where the physical experience is all that matters. That's fine (tons of people enjoy it) but it's not what Disney is doing (or attempting to do). Disney couldn't compete with that even if they wanted to, because those parks already have tons of huge coasters. They'd always be playing catch-up, and there'd be little reason for people to travel to Disney just for coasters when they have a regional park that's just as good or better.

If your main interest is coasters, Disney isn't really for you.

I’ve never been a coaster person either. Six Flags, Busch Gardens, etc. are a bit of a snoozefest for me. Once in a while to enjoy the day is fine, but definitely not looking for annual passes. It’s funny, when I lived in NJ, I LOVED going to Hershey, PA for long weekends. I would go at least twice a year. But I never liked Hersheypark. It’s always just been, boring to me. I DO love the town, museum, restaurants, the spa lol, etc. But Hersheypark is mostly coasters and some other stuff. It’s nothing like Disney at all. Anyway, despite not being a coaster person, I WILL do the ones at Disney. I’m a huge Aerosmith fan so RNR is a must. But the older I get, the more I just want to chill and keep it low key at the parks.

 

[_caleb]

Which is incredibly unfortunate. Not that the ride itself is bad, but the whole exposed track and theming is a major failure and part of the reason Toy Story Land is so terrible. If Disney pivoted to building a lot of rides like Slinky Dog I'd probably stop going.

I agree. Why didn’t they AT LEAST try to theme the track and supports look like something Andy would have built? Hot Wheels track? Erector Set? LEGO? Even some old lamps and furniture would have gone a long way to enforce the concept.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree the marketing is out of control. However, building an attraction should still meet the need no matter how it is marketed. But for all the complains about capacity being removed, they added Little Mermaid to Fantasyland and kept Carousel of Progress and Peoplemover open, but mostly just get "meh" reactions from people. Deciding they need more mid-tier attractions, and building mid-tier attractions that can actually entice a crowd and drive revenue are two different things. It's a rare occasion indeed when a mid-tier attraction can actually pull its weight.

But yeah... as others have said part of the problem is the huge costs of WDI Attractions.

Mid-tier attractions aren’t supposed to entice a crowd. That’s why they have so largely been abandoned. There purpose is to provide capacity and help fill out a day. They’re not something you plan a trip around but they increase satisfaction with the entire experience. The big problem with single-price admission is that no attractions directly drive revenue. It’s all based on correlation and surveys. A modest ride drives satisfaction with the day which drives revenue in souvenirs (happy people not overly focused on having the get their next ride buy more stuff), return visits and sharing the experience with others. The focus on driving obvious revenue is how parks have headed down the vicious cycle of having to build something that draws crowds but then not having enough capacity, so new rides have to be bigger and more expensive which just means they’re expected to bring in more people. When a modest ride like The Little Mermaid is attempted it can’t just be a nice addition to the day because it ends up costing $150 million.

 

[_caleb]

Mid-tier attractions aren’t supposed to entice a crowd. That’s why they have so largely been abandoned. There purpose is to provide capacity and help fill out a day. They’re not something you plan a trip around but they increase satisfaction with the entire experience. The big problem with single-price admission is that no attractions directly drive revenue. It’s all based on correlation and surveys. A modest ride drives satisfaction with the day which drives revenue in souvenirs (happy people not overly focused on having the get their next ride buy more stuff), return visits and sharing the experience with others. The focus on driving obvious revenue is how parks have headed down the vicious cycle of having to build something that draws crowds but then not having enough capacity, so new rides have to be bigger and more expensive which just means they’re expected to bring in more people. When a modest ride like The Little Mermaid is attempted it can’t just be a nice addition to the day because it ends up costing $150 million.

The cost isn’t the only thing that keeps The Little Mermaid from being a nice addition.

 

[_caleb]

All I'm saying is that if you think Disney is expensive, you must not get out and do much of anything. Of course, I routinely drop hundreds of dollars on concert tickets (RIP) which are only valuable for 2-3 hours max, so my concept of cheap vs expensive is skewed.

Concerts are another thing where the value is completely dependent on personal taste. I can’t imagine spending hundreds of dollars on concert tickets. Which, by the way, is why I don’t go to concert fan websites and post about how dumb concerts and concert attendees are.

 

[easyrowrdw]

But wasn't it Chapek who was against re-opening when the pandemic was going on? AND the guy who doesn't agree with Iger that Splash Mountain should be rethemed?

Prior to the announcement I don't think Florida had very bad numbers. And in the call I think Chapek said something about having solid bookings until the Covid numbers went absolutely crazy. So I find it difficult to believe he didn't want to open, much less other alleged disagreements between Chapek and Iger.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

All I'm saying is that if you think Disney is expensive, you must not get out and do much of anything. Of course, I routinely drop hundreds of dollars on concert tickets (RIP) which are only valuable for 2-3 hours max, so my concept of cheap vs expensive is skewed.

I think you’re thinking quite selfishly though. Yes, I as an adult male with a decent job & no kids can save up over time for an expensive trip to Disney. I do a lot of traveling as well and I still think Disney is highly expensive, especially if you don’t have a love for theme parks. I’ve been to many music festivals these past few years too. Those too are things for singles & couples. Try buying EDC tickets for a family of 4.

I agree with you about the price being where it needs to be to bring among a higher quality of guests. Most don’t spend $300 on a ticket and want to act disorderly. That’s a lot to lose, unlike Sixflags & Seaworld.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

Good point. Thankfully I don't have children so I'm not wasting my money there so it's easier to save

Life is so much better. Keep it up. I know I will!
I will continue to be another statistic of a childless millennial who needs to stop going to Disney