OK ladies, what would you do?

[njDizFan]

Try offering a seat on a crowded subway in NY city. The woman would look at you like some kind of perv who just wanted to stand next to her.

I stated in the previous thread that I thought my wife would be offended, after asking her, she has concurred. Equal rights, equal in every way. I do understand the principal behind the thinking and how this endures, although I believe more previlant in the south.


There are also many factors where I cannot understnad the logic at all. Should a 50 year old man give up his seat for an 18 year old girl? What is the tipping point where a man is considered the elder and has the right to the seat?

 

[njDizFan]

If a woman ever thought I was being "sexist" for offering my seat to her... then I'd politely treat her as a man (not as EQUAL, because I truly believe everyone is equal, simply because they in fact are, so treat her AS A MAN)... and knock her out.

Feminist are some of the worst type of people... and I imagine they're the only ones that would find offense in being offered a seat.

I'll offer my seat to a 35 year old dude if he's cute enough, so I don't need a bowlcut chick telling me I'm sexist if I offered it to a woman.

so you advocate punching someone because they think and look different from you?

 

[Dukeblue1227]

so you advocate punching someone because they think and look different from you?

I was being facetious...

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I think taking a second to try and recognize how different people approach the question is helpful.

Any man who offers his seat is probably motivated by simple politeness and should be met with the same.

But any woman who's put off by the offer probably recognizes that the idea behind it is essentially the same one that kept women at home for most of their lives until very recently in our culture. The idea that women are different than men and deserve special treatment can have both pleasant and awful consequences. Don't be too hard on the women who recognize that and are just uncomfortable with the thinking altogether...as long as they're not flat out rude about it, of course.

Basically...it's not a history quiz here. There's not really a right or wrong answer. Just try to appreciate where other people come from.

 

[Dukeblue1227]

Equal rights, equal in every way.

Again, my earlier post was 100% sarcastic.

However this type of thinking is simple insane.

No kidding equal rights. Offering a seat is in no way unequal.

Being offended someone offered you a seat is like being offended someone held the door open for you.

If I walk into Dunks in the morning and I had to open the door myself and there is a woman behind me... since "equal rights, equal in every way" should I shut the door in her face because... I mean hey, I had to open the door. So... she should have to open the door too?

I mean, it's the only equal thing to do...

My point was simply, it's ignorant to be offended by being offered a seat. It's a COMMON COURTESY. Like holding a door open. Like picking up something someone dropped.

Just as it's snobby to feel entitled TO THAT SEAT and feel you should be offered it. Again, a COMMON COURTESY. If the person doesn't offer the seat that's their prerogative and no one can tell them what they should or should not do.

 

[JenShelby]

Some of these answers surprise me. I would never think it was sexist or rude for a man to offer me his seat. I personally think that if a man offers me his seat that he is being a gentlemen. I work in a very large Children's Hospital and I am very appalled at how many men (older and younger) will not hold a door, they will let it slam in your face. When a man does hold a door for me I am quite surprised, so offering me a seat is wonderful. I do agree that it depends on the circumstance. If my young daughter is standing with me I would accept, if I feel that I am ok standing for the ride I would kindly decline his offer but thank him. What's so wrong with men being gentlemen in this day and age???

 

[njDizFan]

I completely agree that common courtesy and politness is something everyone should extend to everyone. And I get upset at the rudeness of people who do not hold doors, say please and thank you, or pick something off the floor when anybody drops something.

Having a cashier just look at you once, or at least aknowledging your presence during a transaction would be a nice place to start.

 

[tiggermarie]

I would not be offended at all and be secretly happy that chivalry is alive.

And yet we see so little of it.
I remember - not at Disney - that I was going in to a Burger King and two young boys - I have never seen before- maybe 8 and 10, both ran to the door before me and where arguing over who will hold the door for me. I thought that was very nice and thanked them both and their Mother. So chivalry is still alive just not seen much of.......

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Generally people who hold doors open do it for both men and women. That's what I do anyway.

I haven't seen anyone in here say they would offer a seat on a bus to a healthy-looking man. So it might be considered a courtesy, but it's not motivated by the same thinking that causes people to hold doors for other people. It seems more specifically related to gender. (Not saying that makes it wrong, but it does make it different.)

 

[Erika]

I voted No- I appreciate it but politely decline the offer but as I age, I suspect this will change :lol:

At this point I'm more likely to give up my own seat if someone else looks like he or she could use it.

 

[Dukeblue1227]

Nevernind

 

[muse1983]

I can't believe that a woman would be offended if a man offered her his seat. I suppose a extreme femenist would find something wrong with it but otherwise it's simply manners in my opinion.

 

[tigsmom]

Generally people who hold doors open do it for both men and women. That's what I do anyway.

I haven't seen anyone in here say they would offer a seat on a bus to a healthy-looking man. So it might be considered a courtesy, but it's not motivated by the same thinking that causes people to hold doors for other people. It seems more specifically related to gender. (Not saying that makes it wrong, but it does make it different.)

Well I did say that we do offer our seats to those who are older (be they male or female). In the case of my girls you would qualify. :lookaroun And yes, I have offered my seat to a healthy looking male (who was younger by the way) because he seemed very tired and he politely accepted though he seemed a bit embarrassed. :shrug:

Offering your seat to another is just polite manners and it is up to them to accept or decline (for whatever reason they deem appropriate) and I fail to see where anyone would be offended.

You see so many posts in these forums complaining about guests and CMs who treat others rudely, but if you do not take the time to teach your children proper manners then you are raising the next generation of rude people. You cannot expect someone to exhibit good manners if they are never taught them. It seems to me that everyone complaining here thinks common courtesy should be a thing of the past and if that is true then I feel sorry for the future...what you sow so shall you reap

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Speaking as an ignorant sexist pig, whats in it for me beeeeach????

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Both "Bus Etiquette" threads have provided ample entertainment for me as somewhere who uses public transportation both in and out of WDW on a near daily basis. I've never seen or heard so much drama in person before! Except maybe when a UPS truck drove into the back of a bus I was riding and everybody on board was noticeably pushed forward.

If someone is visibly having issues standing or boarding on the bus than I will see people offering seats, same to moms with kids and/or strollers to look after. Also, if there are seats available then people will move as far to one end as possible to fill all possible seats. All of this forms my "Bus etiquette" way of thinking.

I would never offer my seat to a woman, without a visible handicap or whom did not ask me, on the basis of her gender. As far as I'm concerned she can stand just like I do when no seats are available. Also, I'm sure any man who offered a woman a seat out of "kindness" would risk the chance of getting some weird looks. Maybe it's a city thing.

I haven't seen anyone in here say they would offer a seat on a bus to a healthy-looking man. So it might be considered a courtesy, but it's not motivated by the same thinking that causes people to hold doors for other people. It seems more specifically related to gender. (Not saying that makes it wrong, but it does make it different.)

Agreed and if I may, let me pose some questions:

What do men think if a women offered them a seat?

What do people of the same gender who are visibly healthy think of people offering a seat?

When do race, sexual orientation, religious background etc. become things taken into consideration?

Does "Bus Etiquette" extend to monorails, boats and steam trains?

In the mean time, pass the popcorn.

*does not how to get popcorn smilie :lookaroun*

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Speaking as an ignorant sexist pig, whats in it for me beeeeach????

The satisfaction of knowing your legs work at holding you up? The ability to get of the bus before she does? :shrug:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The satisfaction of knowing your legs work at holding you up? :shrug:

It is unlikely Im ratted, so I think I will have established that my legs are functioning by getting to the bus stop and standing in that q for several hours especially if its for SSR retirement home.

 

[Dukeblue1227]

Generally people who hold doors open do it for both men and women. That's what I do anyway.

I haven't seen anyone in here say they would offer a seat on a bus to a healthy-looking man. So it might be considered a courtesy, but it's not motivated by the same thinking that causes people to hold doors for other people. It seems more specifically related to gender. (Not saying that makes it wrong, but it does make it different.)

With absolute the upmost respect I have to strongly disagree. I hope not to offend you at all, I just don't agree with your logic...

This is the second post you have implied into "the thinking that goes into" something.

For stricter example; here you basically say offering up a seat to somebody is not motivated by the same thinking that causes people to hold doors for one another.

How do you know? You can't tell me what I'm thinking...

Your previous post explained that someone shouldn't be "so hard on a woman who is offended by having a seat offered to them."

But... aren't they in fact being hard on me for being offended. They're offended because they're, presumably, assuming I'm offering it to them as some sign of weakness?

Well, I think they're the ones with the skewed mindset.

Personally, I was raised to respect woman and to see them as a powerful, loving, caring figure in my life. Now, my father is my best friend in this world. But my mother, she is the symbol of love in my life. No one could care after their child quite like a mother can. No one can love a child quite like a mother can. And maybe this has instictively instilled a respect in my heart for women everywhere.

If I was on a crowded bus with a 27 year old man who was in the military... I'd have the upmost respect for that person and in honor of that respect offer him my seat. I don't think you can have a healthier man to use as an example in your question. And I would offer him my seat in respect.

So if I, out of my true respect for women, offer up my seat and a woman gets OFFENDED. Yeah, I'm going to be upset... because she is assuming I see her as weak and I see her as not equal... and SHE is the one being hard ON ME...

And that would offend me.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Well I did say that we do offer our seats to those who are older (be they male or female). In the case of my girls you would qualify. :lookaroun And yes, I have offered my seat to a healthy looking male (who was younger by the way) because he seemed very tired and he politely accepted though he seemed a bit embarrassed. :shrug:

Offering your seat to another is just polite manners and it is up to them to accept or decline (for whatever reason they deem appropriate) and I fail to see where anyone would be offended.

Glad to know your girls would give up their seat for a geezer like me. :lol:

I agree with what you're saying about taking offense (by which I mean getting angry) at a person who's trying to be polite.

If we remove any gender criteria and just offer a seat to anyone who looks like they could use it (like you said your family does), then I think you eliminate any issues with this.

But if you do make it purely a male/female issue, then I do see why some women would be a bit put off not at the act itself, but more at the thinking it emerges from. A man in 2010 who offers his seat is probably just being nice...but a man who did the same thing in 1940 would probably use the same reasoning behind it (women are different and special and have to be treated as such) to justify discouraging his wife from going to college, having a career, or generally doing anything other than breed. The courtesies and the barriers were all tied in together and motivated by the same ideas. You couldn't pick one or the other.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman who recognizes the historical baggage there and is wary about any act that is purely tied to gender, regardless of how nice it is — as long as she's polite about it, anyway.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

With absolute the upmost respect I have to strongly disagree. I hope not to offend you at all, I just don't agree with your logic...

I'm never offended by civil disagreement. No worries. :wave:

This is the second post you have implied into "the thinking that goes into" something.

For stricter example; here you basically say offering up a seat to somebody is not motivated by the same thinking that causes people to hold doors for one another.

How do you know? You can't tell me what I'm thinking...

You're right, I don't know what you individually think. But this whole thread (unless I've misread it) has been about the practice of offering seats to women in a way that generally differs from how men are treated. That's why it was started, to ask women what they think.

You mentioned that you would offer your seat to a man in a military uniform, which is laudable. But you're still making distinctions about the circumstances under which you would offer a man a seat, while (I think) saying you would always offer a woman a seat simply based on her gender. That, in and of itself, is all I mean when I refer to "the thinking behind the act."

I am definitely not saying you're a sexist for thinking that women deserve a special form of treatment. I have no doubts that your motivations are completely out of respect. All I'm saying is that when you start treating women differently based on nothing but the fact that they're women, then some women might be put off by it because they recognize that ideas like that have supported some very unpleasant practices as well as nice ones. It doesn't have to be a personal judgment on YOU, just a recognition of where a society can take that kind of thought if it's applied in every area of life.

Your previous post explained that someone shouldn't be "so hard on a woman who is offended by having a seat offered to them."

But... aren't they in fact being hard on me for being offended. They're offended because they're, presumably, assuming I'm offering it to them as some sign of weakness?

Well, I think they're the ones with the skewed mindset.

A couple of things:

1.) I've intentionally avoided the phrase "get offended," because I think it implies a nasty emotional confrontation. I'm not going to defend someone who makes a scene over a simple act of politeness. But if we're just talking about someone's mental reaction, then I don't think there's anything wrong with being wary — or even taking offense.

2.) I think the biggest bone here seems to be your worry that a woman you offer your seat to might judge YOU personally as having sexist motivations. I think any woman who's bright enough to realize the justifications for true historical sexism is also bright enough to realize that a guy who offers her a seat is probably just trying to be nice. Taking offense (mentally) doesn't have to be a judgment on the man himself, just on the negative potential for treating women as "special" in a larger context.

Basically, I feel like this is an issue where some shades of gray should be acknowledged. The only thing that I think should be black and white is we should be polite to each other and try to appreciate people's differences in thinking.