OK, I'll Admit it...Disney Prices Are Out Of Control

[bugsbunny]

Florida resident's aren't a very profitable subset of guests, so Disney doesn't care very much what you do. They want people to fly and they want them to be captive on property for the duration of their stay.

I agree with you on that. Locals and the majority of APs are no longer in any target demographic. This is similar to what happened at DisneyLand. This group does will not spend like the captive audience that flies in and and is hopefully trapped on property, has every waking moment choreographed and time reserved into an opportunity to spend more money. Raising the prices of APs and radically change the blackout schedule (like they did at DL) is purposely done to make it a "resort destination". It's an attempt to reduce crowd sizes by gearing towards the 5 day trapped visitor, not a zip in zip out AP holding day tripper. Push the low spending day trippers out, get the eager over spending trapped on property tourists in.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I agree with you on that. Locals and the majority of APs are no longer in any target demographic. This is similar to what happened at DisneyLand. This group does will not spend like the captive audience that flies in and and is hopefully trapped on property, has every waking moment choreographed and time reserved into an opportunity to spend more money. Raising the prices of APs and radically change the blackout schedule (like they did at DL) is purposely done to make it a "resort destination". It's an attempt to reduce crowd sizes by gearing towards the 5 day trapped visitor, not a zip in zip out AP holding day tripper. Push the low spending day trippers out, get the eager over spending trapped on property tourists in.

I'm not sure APs were ever very targeted. By nature, they are likely going to spend less money than a tourist on any given trip. Where Disney fails is the value the AP brings over time, particularly someone like me.

I've always thought Disney has failed at maintaining "accounts" and needs some kind of better reward program.

 

[thomas998]

absolutely, but I also do believe that even big publicly traded companies are influenced by the very thing those shareholders are looking for.
If the reason they behave that way comes down to profit and we want to effect change, remove the thing that influences them.

I just think it's really weird that we have this laundry list of stuff that is bad (which begs the question of how one had a good time) and we think it's going to magically get better by doing nothing but grumbling.
It's exactly like the saying about insanity. We want it to change, yet we do the same action over and over (give them our money) and we EXPECT it to do something different.

The reality is most companies that behave like Disney will face a future problem because of their focus on the quick return. Right now the fact is the population that can afford to go to Disney is growing fast enough that they can afford to drive away some percentage of their customers because the number of people that are already poised to take their place. But at some point if they continue to short change customers, they will begin chasing away repeat customers faster than they can replace them and that is when they will be forced to change directions.

It is also possible that if they continue to shortchange customers that they will allow other competitors to start poaching customers at a faster rate and be forced to make changes even sooner to avoid losing money. In the end, they can't continue in the current direction forever...

Though I do wonder about some of the changes like park hours and how they ended up where they are... It makes me think of a small grocery store we used to have where I was growing up... Their hours slowly declined first from 11PM... then 10PM... and on and on until they started closing at 7PM... it never made a lot of sense until I asked the owner why he did it. His answer was the customers were so few and far between as it got close to closing time that he couldn't justify paying his cashiers if they weren't making enough money when they were there. It made sense when he said it... but if you actually thought about it, you also realized that when you knew the store was going to close at 10PM you were probably not going to go there after 9:30... likewise when he cut back to 9PM when customer realized that was the closing time they wouldn't want to go there after 8:30... and on and on... given the town wasn't shrinking and people were still needing to buy groceries, he was just chasing away customer because he wasn't looking at why people behaved the way they did. I wonder if some of that shortsighted analysis is behind Disney and their dwindling hours. I know we don't like staying till closing because the place becomes a zoo when you are leaving so we try to leave a little earlier than closing... if other people do the same then Disney may be chasing out customers and assuming that they need to close earlier just because they see the number of people leaving and assume it is because they are tired and not that it is because they are just trying to beat the rush.

 

[eliza61nyc]

It is also possible that if they continue to shortchange customers that they will allow other competitors to start poaching customers at a faster rate and be forced to make changes even sooner to avoid losing money. In the end, they can't continue in the current direction forever...

Though I do wonder about some of the changes like park hours and how they ended up where they are... It makes me think of a small grocery store we used to have where I was growing up... Their hours slowly declined first from 11PM... then 10PM... and on and on until they started closing at 7PM... it never made a lot of sense until I asked the owner why he did it. His answer was the customers were so few and far between as it got close to closing time that he couldn't justify paying his cashiers if they weren't making enough money when they were there. It made sense when he said it... but if you actually thought about it, you also realized that when you knew the store was going to close at 10PM you were probably not going to go there after 9:30... likewise when he cut back to 9PM when customer realized that was the closing time they wouldn't want to go there after 8:30... and on and on... given the town wasn't shrinking and people were still needing to buy groceries, he was just chasing away customer because he wasn't looking at why people behaved the way they did. I wonder if some of that shortsighted analysis is behind Disney and their dwindling hours. I know we don't like staying till closing because the place becomes a zoo when you are leaving so we try to leave a little earlier than closing... if other people do the same then Disney may be chasing out customers and assuming that they need to close earlier just because they see the number of people leaving and assume it is because they are tired and not that it is because they are just trying to beat the rush.

lol, so I guess the question becomes how long until "forever"? So if you go back just on this one site, people have been voicing these complaints for the last 8 years easy. and the crowds are bigger and the prices higher. Now realistically unless a meteor hits the planet, I think the next 4 years are still golden for the mouseworld. so for at least 5 years I think Disney is going to continue down this current management style. If any thing with all the new stuff coming on board they will have great success at keeping them in the parks.

The big unknown is of course the economy. Yes a correction is coming, that's not rocket science but the wild card will be how bad a correction and also remember that nothing is stationary. I don't think it will be like 2007/08 where we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month but hey I'm not an economist, don't even portray one on tv.

So I think this notion of disney not being able to continue in this manner "long term" is misguided. or maybe the better question is what do folks consider "long term"?

So what do you think is going to happen "long term"?

 

[eliza61nyc]

I'm not sure APs were ever very targeted. By nature, they are likely going to spend less money than a tourist on any given trip. Where Disney fails is the value the AP brings over time, particularly someone like me.

I've always thought Disney has failed at maintaining "accounts" and needs some kind of better reward program.

I wonder (and I do not know folks, just wondering) if Disney views certain guest as a "depreciating" asset. lol. for example, us DVC'er who purchased early on. I've gotten my value worth out of my purchase, disney knows this. they probably assume that we do spend less money over the years so after say 10 years they don't even count us as having any type of monetary value??

 

[eliza61nyc]

It will fall apart and the Japanese, Norwegians and Arabs will buy WDW.

Hey from your mouth to God's ears because that would mean huge stock buy back and I could sell my shares at an exorbitant price and then price of tickets would no longer be a problem.

 

[thomas998]

lol, so I guess the question becomes how long until "forever"? So if you go back just on this one site, people have been voicing these complaints for the last 8 years easy. and the crowds are bigger and the prices higher. Now realistically unless a meteor hits the planet, I think the next 4 years are still golden for the mouseworld. so for at least 5 years I think Disney is going to continue down this current management style. If any thing with all the new stuff coming on board they will have great success at keeping them in the parks.

The big unknown is of course the economy. Yes a correction is coming, that's not rocket science but the wild card will be how bad a correction and also remember that nothing is stationary. I don't think it will be like 2007/08 where we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month but hey I'm not an economist, don't even portray one on tv.

So I think this notion of disney not being able to continue in this manner "long term" is misguided. or maybe the better question is what do folks consider "long term"?

So what do you think is going to happen "long term"?

I wouldn't expect them to hit any noticeable rough waters for at least 10 or 15 years. Only thing that will likely cause them to have issues sooner is Universal were to suddenly go after the toddler to pre-teen market. At the moment they are the most likely competition for WDW but have tended to focus on an older audience. Sure they have that goofy Doctor Seuss world but it is pretty small and has never seemed to be that popular.

Trouble with the economy hitting a down turn is that it would need to be a global downturn to impact WDW significantly because of the large international segment of their visitors.... DL would be more likely to hit a snag in a US downturn.

 

[thomas998]

Very wise post, anecdote and observation.

There are a bunch of dim nitwits making decisions at Disney Corp.

Case in point is the Disney After Hours during the Fall.
In the Fall the Disney After Hours starts at 9 pm.

This means the regular Park Guests will leave around 8-8:30 pm wait out dinner and go get dinner off site or out of the park.
And then the After Hours people will eat dinner before hand and just eat the free ice cream/popcorn at the event.

So sure they make money off the extra After Hours Tickets but that is offset by the loss of revenue from the big markup concessions and food.

And it wouldn't surprise me if you have different managers making those decisions completely out of the minds of the other managers. I could really see some poor dolt that is in charge of food sales wondering why they have a sudden down turn during the after hours events.

 

[erasure fan1]

So what do you think is going to happen "long term"?

That's hard to say. The answer could be, nothing. The world is a fickle place. Right now it doesn't seem that Disney has anything to worry about. People just keep going no matter what. What can happen is, if you push too hard, until it breaks, you risk people throwing in the towel and not returning. When a company takes for granted that customers will always just be there, bad things happen. "Long term" could be 10 years could be 20 years, it could also be never. It seems that Disney is banking on the never side. Either way Iger will be long gone with his billions by the time it breaks.

 

[eliza61nyc]

You own shares in Disney? Then I can see why you would people to continue to drink the Kool Aid. I would do the same thing if I owned Disney stock.

Really that doesn't come into play all. It's two different things.

Actually I think you folks are bigger koolaide drinkers. sorry If I made a list like the op made. there is no way in heckdom I would be going back. no way.

A persons experience also influences how they feel. now I've always said compared to others here, I'm a relatively new comer to the world. so I don't compare it to these glorious yesterdays. I've never ever experienced the trash can problem, nor dirty parks. My trips have been glorious. the worst I've run across is the monorail breaking down. the places I go to vacation (large cities mainly) food and drink are expensive and yes I've had a bad meal at a nyc restaurant. I don't go to the world and say "well disney never use to have bad meals" and then get upset if one of my meals suck. I contact the manager on duty and talk about the problems, I realize that if there is a human chef in the kitchen there is a chance the meal will come out bad.

For me I think the bigger issues is the crowds. hands down

Toy story land?? I didn't hate it, we had fun, is it my favorite land?? by no means but we had fun so I'm good. Ip in Epcot??? could care less, if every marvel character on the planet showed up there as long as the rides where good.
I also don't evaluate the new stuff like you guys do. I don't go looking at new building and get upset because they look like the "mall", in fact I can't seem to find all these malls that look like buildings in Epcot. not saying that folks who do notice it are wrong just that it's not something I do. so I have no reason to hate wdw at all. my vacations are still amazing,
As you probably know from my post, I am a huge believer in consumer power. I really don't care if people drink the koolaide or not as far as my investment go. I believe people should support the things they believe in and like. If millions of folks stop liking Disney then I whole heatedly support them taking their money elsewhere.

I purchased stock over the years because I saw growth and a return on my investment.

I also reevaluate every year. Again remember that this site is miniscule reflection of the general wdw vacation going public,. For the next 10 years I don't see this collapse you're predicting. Again the economy could do something, then all my bets are off.

 

[HongKongFu]

??? The Op says he's going back. So in essence we are not taking our money elsewhere. Now he definitely had a good time but there is absolutely no incentive that I can see for anything to change.

But he got a high priced food cost item at no charge and $100 credit for no internet

If those and giveaways like those were the widespread norm then Disney would be bankrupt on day 8.


Disney is better off offering quality experiences because believe it or not quality is cheap--- it really is---- and cutting corners/making mistakes/offering things half baked is expensive.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I wonder (and I do not know folks, just wondering) if Disney views certain guest as a "depreciating" asset. lol. for example, us DVC'er who purchased early on. I've gotten my value worth out of my purchase, disney knows this. they probably assume that we do spend less money over the years so after say 10 years they don't even count us as having any type of monetary value??

Maybe, but regardless, they should know exactly what you spend.

If nothing else, they should be targeting you with meaningful offers you might actually take. I never get targeted, I never get coupons, I never get special treatment. It's a joke.

 

[Chef Mickey]

But he got a high priced food cost item at no charge and $100 credit for no internet

If those and giveaways like those were the widespread norm then Disney would be bankrupt on day 8.


Disney is better off offering quality experiences because believe it or not quality is cheap--- it really is---- and cutting corners/making mistakes/offering things half baked is expensive.

True. Disney Parks STILL have relatively low ~20% margins and they can't just start giving credits left and right. I honestly think the $100 was necessary becauase of the nature of the problem. Do you think $100 was too little, too much, or just right?

The steak thing...I mean, that was a joke.

 

[flynnibus]

Besides the issues I mentioned, I had a wonderful time. I think a lot of these things would make first timers not go back or delay going back. I have gone enough to know how to manage shorter hours, avoid "rip-offs" and mitigate less than ideal circumstances. I don't need a lot of staff, as an example, to make my trip enjoyable. It's just sad I have to plan my day around attractions that are half running, but I can do it and still get the enjoyment out of my favorite attractions.

Now you are starting to get it... when people have a frame of reference, then Disney fails to meet that, yet still charges these prices.. you are bothered by it. Your frame of reference has always been what you have shown as other external comparable destinations or vendors.

Many of us use Disney's own performance as the frame of reference. Now you are seeing it slip even to your own frame of reference.

The message has been the same for awhile - they are charging a premium way beyond what they are actually delivering on.

 

[flynnibus]

they should have a rewards program because it would be a great way to "appreciate" those who go often and gives them incentive to spend more. I was going with the logic of rewarding those who go frequently and drop a lot of cash at the parks.
pointing out that others successfully do is not a confirmation of the why.

Well by your own arguments.. they shouldn't.. because people come anyway! It's your reasoning for supporting the nutty pricing and other choices... same logic here honey.

 

[flynnibus]

lol, so I guess the question becomes how long until "forever"? So if you go back just on this one site, people have been voicing these complaints for the last 8 years easy. and the crowds are bigger and the prices higher.

Housing prices were surging right before the crash too...
The 20s were booming until the depression hit...

You can't use prices and limited metrics as a size of HEALTH - they are RESULTS, not actual indicators of internal health, forecasts, margins, etc.

You keep preaching like the guy that thinks everything is fine until the moment the burning roof hits them in the head.

 

[WWWD]

I was at MK on July 3rd and at one point 14 rides were down across property - my kids counted them in the app. The app said at Animal Kingdom, both Pandora rides were down as well as Everest. Even Tom Sawyer Island was down due to kneel boat issues, that’s a first for me.

 

[DisneyGigi]

My problem is that I am an addict. I have complained, canceled once, still ended up going. Going again before my APs die in little under 6 weeks. I am not renewing passes when they die though. That doesn’t mean I won’t be back next fall, but we have been four 6-7 day trips since last August/September. I feel like we got our money’s worth bumping up from 8 day parkhoppers. Disney knows I will be back, maybe not that many times a year and with adding tons of extras, but they know I will be back. They throw the bait out, hook you, and just like a crack addict- (assuming) you will be back.

In all reality, I would rather be hooked on Pixie Dust, than what some addictions are. They depend on the Disney Addicts more than they like to admit tho. IMO

 

[eliza61nyc]

Housing prices were surging right before the crash too...
The 20s were booming until the depression hit...

You can't use prices and limited metrics as a size of HEALTH - they are RESULTS, not actual indicators of internal health, forecasts, margins, etc.

You keep preaching like the guy that thinks everything is fine until the moment the burning roof hits them in the head.

OK, I've got no problem with that. I use the information available and make decision. works better than preaching the "sky is falling"

 

[Much-Pixie-Dust]

True. Disney Parks STILL have relatively low ~20% margins and they can't just start giving credits left and right. I honestly think the $100 was necessary becauase of the nature of the problem. Do you think $100 was too little, too much, or just right?

The steak thing...I mean, that was a joke.

I think at least $100 comp for the lack of internet was appropriate, as was comping your meal. IMO LeCellier should have done something for you too, without prompting. It’s a steakhouse. You ordered steak.

In my experience with Disney, they have always addressed personal problems that we’ve encountered in an appropriate way that often times has gone above and beyond. Sometimes issues were handled by CM, like when little red ants were crawling out from behind the mirror in our bathroom area. I always write a letter after trip, and give names of CMs who were excellent as well as detail overall vacation experience. There was one instance when I received a call regarding a horrible customer service experience from concierge. The cast member that called was wonderful to talk to and offered a fantastic comp To make up for the bad experience. Never did I ask for anything, but I did accept it. In that call he also discussed multiple past trips I had at Disney. I imagine from all the data they keep us.

Like the op, I love Disney, but I have also seen things deteriorate from a quality aspect. The lack of staffing at rides and having rides not fully operating to capacity are what I have noticed the most. Upkeep of public areas is another. I don’t look at lightbulbs and such, but I do notice things like having an electrical cord duct taped down across the walkway at the Kidani pool bar area.

I am glad that despite the issues, you were still able to make great memories with your family.