OK, I'll Admit it...Disney Prices Are Out Of Control

[John park hopper]

So what you are saying is Disney basically does not give a S____ about people who drive to WDW because flying is not a option (cost, no direct flights, take longer to fly with connecting flights, etc etc). IMO it's both a money grab and an attempt to limit guest going off site. Sad

 

[Chef Mickey]

Disney has finally priced me out of ever visiting again. I priced a three night visit and it would cost more than I make in one month (including air). Disney has always been expensive, but I thought still provided some value. Seems now Disney raises prices because they know people will still pay for the experience!

I don’t like hearing that, but travel is expensive anywhere. You’ve got you basics no matter where you go...flight, hotel, and food. At Disney, the entertainment is a decent value in terms of ticket prices. Going to NYC, as an example, is more expensive than Disney if you don’t want to just sit in your hotel room.

 

[Amidala]

My kids have no desire to go back either. We had a fun trip a few years ago when they were 7 and 11 but I've been shocked that neither of them have ever asked to go back and have actually said no when we've offered to take them back. They'd both much rather go other places and do other things.

When I was a kid I was obsessed with Disney World (and, to a lesser degree still am, which is why I'm here writing this). I could have gone every year and still wanted more. As a parent, I realize my nostalgia for the place and my experience there 30 years ago strongly influence how I feel today. It wasn't nearly as fun for my kids who were experiencing it for the first time as it was for me who was experiencing it through the rosy lens of nostalgia.

Back in my day, Disney was sepcial. There was nothing comparable. Nothing. Today that's no longer the case. We took my kids to Universal the next year and they liked it as much--and in some respects even better--than Disney.

My kids will never have the same kind of nostalgia that I have and doubt that they will ever think Disney World is some kind rite of passage for their own children or be obliged to make a least one family pilgrimage--let alone more than one. I wonder what will happen when my generation of cradle to grave Disney enthusiasts gets replaced with my kids' generation.

I don't know...it sounds to me like maybe your kids are just very worldly, content with one trip to Disney & would rather explore new places on subsequent vacations. That isn't by any means a bad thing, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the norm...and certainly not true of the kids I've encountered, most of whom would jump at the chance to visit WDW. And I'm sure, if asked, most Disney fans would argue Disney was "more special" back in their day...varying levels of truth to all of these claims, but doesn't make the parks any less special in the eyes of young fans.

Disney is very much a part of the cultural zeitgeist right now (more so than it was during my childhood, post 9/11 theme parks slump, when both the Disney animation and parks divisions were languishing; not to say it wasn't popular with us then, because it was, but there was a pronounced lack of new things to look forward to for sure, especially compared w/ the current era). Not speaking one way or another to my own feelings on whether the parks are "better or worse" overall, but I have no doubt WDW is still the #1 vacation destination of kids around the world. And would venture most people still consider Disney to be in a league of its own (Universal is the only real contender, but in general the many, many families I spoke to while working at the parks still considered UO/IOA a 1-2 day diversion from Disney at most). It's possible you're just missing the necessary exposure to Disney fan culture among Millennials and Gen Z but I can guarantee you...Millennials grew up with the Renaissance and Gen Z grew up with the Revival Era. The passion has not lessened with the generations following yours, if anything it's become further mainstreamed.

And to wrap this back around to the relevant topic, Millennials can and will shell out exorbitant amounts for Disney if able. I'm sure it's part of why we're in this mess to begin with...the demand hasn't diminished, it's grown.

If I’m staying on Disney property with my car, I’m not driving to freaking Outback Steakhouse. I’m driving from home, and then I’m driving to and from the parks without waiting for buses.

I’m also driving to other WDW resorts for dinner and shopping.

But if you make me pay $20/night, I’m going to intentionally reduce my spending by that much or more.

IDK, I'll buy it as at least a partial reason for the charge. We never drove down when I was a kid (I'm from NY) but imagine we would have been stopping over for breakfast, lunch and/or snacks at Publix or the Speedway every day if given the chance. You can save a lot of money by only eating one big meal at the parks and getting the rest elsewhere. You can either buy a breakfast bagel from the gas station or pay $15-20 per person at a Disney quick-service...pay $5.25 per churro for your family of six or grab a value pack of potato chips on your way in. I don't think Disney is concerned about losing business to Olive Garden, but there are easy alternatives to the super overpriced snacks at the parks & Disney wants us to continue to buy them.

 

[smile]

I have no issues with the prices. I work overtime to make up for any increases. I dont want Disney cheap. Go on a Carnival cruise...and see what cheap does for cliental .. .But, I will never let any increases affect our family. Thats what O.T. is for..to pay for Disney, but we love it!

 

[erasure fan1]

IMO it's both a money grab and an attempt to limit guest going off site. Sad

Yes, Disney is doing it to drive revenue, clear and simple. You bring a car, Disney makes extra money. You don't bring bring a car, Disney makes extra money. Win for them and a loss for the guest.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Please expand. Tons of stuff wasn’t working. Like most of the effects in the 5th dimension.

There's an ongoing discussion about it here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/tower-of-terror-effects-status-watch.861775/page-11

and here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...city-due-to-an-extended-refurbishment.953122/

 

[Chef Mickey]

There's an ongoing discussion about it here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/tower-of-terror-effects-status-watch.861775/page-11

and here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...city-due-to-an-extended-refurbishment.953122/

I read it and can’t for the life of me figure out what was refurbished when I just rode July 7th. Literally, the entire 5th dimension scene almost had no audio or visible effects. The stars didn’t work, the lights opening the door, the eye, the picture, etc.

Terrible. Almost all the audio effects in the shaft were inaudible.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I read it and can’t for the life of me figure out what was refurbished when I just rode July 7th. Literally, the entire 5th dimension scene almost had no audio or visible effects. The stars didn’t work, the lights opening the door, the eye, the picture, etc.

Terrible. Almost all the audio effects in the shaft were inaudible.

Apparently it was only a mechanical refurbishment. But the side was down for ~two months. Most of those show issues existed before the refurbishment. It's pathetic that they didn't address any show issues at all during that time.

 

[smile]

I read it and can’t for the life of me figure out what was refurbished when I just rode July 7th.

then they dutifully accomplished their work, as perhaps it would be clearer if we referred to the most recent action on tot as maintenance as opposed to refurbishment

but really... who, at the time, surmised georgie was literal when he said he wanted to keep his old tower?
... or was there misunderstanding and he just wanted to keep his tower old?

 

[Chef Mickey]

Apparently it was only a mechanical refurbishment. But the side was down for ~two months. Most of those show issues existed before the refurbishment. It's pathetic that they didn't address any show issues at all during that time.

That makes sense then. Maybe the show elements will be restored at some point, but this clearly didn’t address anything I could see.

It’s also not more powerful, smoother, or any other Placebo effect.

 

[wendysue]

Absolutely. I already see the potential and perhaps it's why the standard has dropped before it gets better.

The new projects at EPCOT and DHS will perhaps be integral to restoring the "Disneyness" back to the parks. The neglect they've experienced is FAR worse than the staffing and operations issues. They just need good stuff in the parks. All my complaints can be easily addressed and I believe will be when the parks stabilize after all the construction and changes.

I think you are a bit too optimistic that your complaints WILL be addressed. It's been a year and a half now since we went. I miss it sometimes, but like looking at my new kitchen appliances that I could not have afforded if I had gone back. (It used to be that we could afford kitchen appliances AND a trip to WDW, but no longer.)

 

[VaderTron]

Spice-dusted Lamb Chops

Roasted Sunchokes, Baby Squash, Romanesco, and Royal Trumpet Mushrooms with a Lamb Demi

Quality ingredients in the wrong hands can still be extremely disappointing. At times it makes it even more of a disappointment knowing they were wasted because a better chef was "too pricey" to employ.

 

[VaderTron]

Going to NYC, as an example, is more expensive than Disney if you don’t want to just sit in your hotel room.

Absolutely false. NYC can be expensive if that's what you want. So can Disney. You can spend $40,000 in one visit at WDW. You can spend more than that. You can spend less. It's up to you. However, NYC has so much to offer within walking distance and infinite possibilities within train or Uber distance. Hotels on the whole are significantly cheaper than Disney hotels for same or better quality standards. A couple can fly from the midwest direct to NYC for $500 with bags and fees, $700 for 4 nights at a quality hotel. $1000 for $200 a day in food and drinks, and get a city pass (Empire state building, the Met, Museum of Natural History, Statue of Liberty (or Circle Line Cruise), 9/11 Memorial, Air & Space Museum, and Top of the Rock (or Guggenheim) all for $132 a person or $264. Alternate touristy things would be to explore the many parks, the Library, Time Square, admire the architecture, shop 5th Ave or china town, see Times Square and catch a Broadway Show ($200 or so). Plenty of lower cost options with many free events. Salsa nights outside Lincoln Town Center, walks along the Promenade in Brooklyn Heights, bar/restaurant crawls in Williamsburg. We're talking about $2,600-$2700 for 5 days. Can you spend more than that. Yes. You can spend as much as you want. Spend $400 a day on food and drink. Now your trip costs the same or still maybe less than a Disney trip at $3600. However, I have not had a (insert food item here) at Disney that I haven't eaten a better version of in NYC...and the price for the NYC version is at least the same if not cheaper than Disney's. Bonus: There is so much to do in NYC. Restaurants alone, you could not eat at every single one if you tried a different restaurant every day of your life...and more are added each day!

Classic undersell of NYC by someone who has to spend lots of money to feel they are having a good time.

 

[Hakunamatata]

As many of you know, I'm a long time Disney supporter and apologist when it comes to pricing. I admit it, price increases generally don't bother me because I still feel I'm getting a lot for my money. To me, the service always matches or exceeds my cost.

HOWEVER, I believe WDW has listened to too many consultants in the effort of margin expansion. This is includes not only charging MORE for the service, but neglecting the service itself.

I am fine with price increases if the delivery of service is not compromised, but I am starting to see that slipping. Here are a few examples I experienced in my most recent July 4th trip that made me question the quality of service.

1) Rides operating at half capacity - Is this to minimize staff? Pirates, Tower of Terror, and even It's A Small World only had half the ride operating on the Fourth of July. I mean, is this offseason now? Accordingly, wait times were 105min for ToT at 8:30AM during EMH, 50min for Small World, and 70 for Pirates. Tower of Terror was blamed for "maintenance" which I'm not sure is true, but I've seen them doing that at various times throughout the year. Only 2 of 4 lifits operating which points to minimizing cast member hours.

2) Food quality in general - One specific example is Be Our Guest. I literally paid $29 for a French Dip, Soup, and drink. Previously, the meat was of decent quality but this time, fatty, cold, chewy, and overall kind of disgusting. The soup was good. At Narcoossee's, I sent my steak back and literally asked them if this is Prime Beef. For $75 for lobster/steak, I expected FAR better. This was the toughest NY Strip I've ever had. They comped my meal without asking, but selling this crap for premium price is shameful. That was a choice steak, AT BEST.

3) No Wi-Fi at Boardwalk - I am paying almost $400/night and LOVE staying here, but not having working Wi-Fi during any of my 5 nights is simply unacceptable at a Deluxe Resort. I called every night and was connected to IT support which wasn't able to solve the issue. I finally talked to someone that just straight up told me, "It's terrible and it's a bandwidth issue. Simply too many people on it. We are switching to fiber but it's a long process." I appreciated the honesty, but come on...I get Wi-Fi at Holiday Inn. They did give me $100 credit without asking. Le Cellier...asked for my steak medium...served it straight up well done. They got it right on try #2, but didn't offer anything for me having to eat separately from my wife.

4) Park Hours - I know we've been talking about this for a while, but I totally AGREE...park hours are a joke. During most of my nights, MK closed at 10PM and everything else was closed by 9PM. July 4th, MK was open until 2AM I believe, which was nice. In general, the parks need longer hours particularly for the prices chaged.

5) Toy Story Land Sucks - I tried to like it. I tried my best. It sucks. The queues are outside, it's hot, small, crowded, and the best ride there already existed. Alien totally sucks and Slinky is the Barnstormer+. These new lands are just not cutting it. New Fantasyland sucked too. Avatar was good, but I still think Na'vi is a C+ to B- attraction.

6) Maintenance is Poor - I'm there about every 2 months and the same crap is broken consistently. Spaceship Earth is a travesty. American Adventure has the same slow lift issue it had in May, no Jane, and all kinds of animatronic issues. Rides also seem to be "down" more. I don't have data to back this up, but the day I got there, Thunder Mountain, Peter Pan, Pirates, and Space Mountain were all down at the same time for hours. I finally left having not used my Multiple Experiences Fast Pass.

7) Many Concessions Closed During Park Hours - What's up with this? Trying to get some juice in Liberty Square and it doesn't open until 11AM? I used to get one every morning. Same thing at Hollywood Studios. If the park is open, everything should be open!

I had a great time, but these things are starting to get tiresome. Disney still DOES take care of complaints with a smile and are ready to give you concessions, but I hate to even have to ask.

Funny you mention the operating hours of quick service. We were at DHS and wanted to grab an early lunch at ABC Com. While walking to the main door a higher level CM was walking out and she told us they were not open yet. I dont remember what time it actually was but the opening time on the menu board outside indicated that they should have already been open. I pointed that out and the CM kind if shrugged it off.

 

[made in china]

I'll share my take on things from a technical person's perspective. We visited DL recently and my wife and I were absolutely shocked at how frequently the rides failed on us whilst we were on them. Of course, many super popular rides were offline most of the day also. I've been going to DL for 35 years, and with my wife for 12 years. Of course we've seen the occasional ride failure, but this recent trip was truly outstanding.
It became immediately apparent to me that Disney isn't investing in the proper talent to maintain the rides.
Ideally, for such technical machines and safety oversight you'd want the best technicians you could find.
Maybe 21st century USA doesn't have as much talent, but there's still talent out there, but it doesn't come cheap anymore.
By my reckoning, you'd need to pay at least $100k/yr to retain good technical talent. And staff a few techs to keep the park running smoothly.
So, out of curiosity I checked the Disney job openings and they were advertising for ride technicians, I believe$35k/yr. In California.
No way can they attract the talent needed for such low pay. You can't keep such technology consistently, reliably running for such low pay.

Would it really hurt Disney's bottom line to employ a few good techs at $100k/yr who could drastically improve operations?

 

[Chef Mickey]

I'll share my take on things from a technical person's perspective. We visited DL recently and my wife and I were absolutely shocked at how frequently the rides failed on us whilst we were on them. Of course, many super popular rides were offline most of the day also. I've been going to DL for 35 years, and with my wife for 12 years. Of course we've seen the occasional ride failure, but this recent trip was truly outstanding.
It became immediately apparent to me that Disney isn't investing in the proper talent to maintain the rides.
Ideally, for such technical machines and safety oversight you'd want the best technicians you could find.
Maybe 21st century USA doesn't have as much talent, but there's still talent out there, but it doesn't come cheap anymore.
By my reckoning, you'd need to pay at least $100k/yr to retain good technical talent. And staff a few techs to keep the park running smoothly.
So, out of curiosity I checked the Disney job openings and they were advertising for ride technicians, I believe$35k/yr. In California.
No way can they attract the talent needed for such low pay. You can't keep such technology consistently, reliably running for such low pay.

Would it really hurt Disney's bottom line to employ a few good techs at $100k/yr who could drastically improve operations?

Some of the ride down time has to do with overly conservative OSHA standards that are out of Disney’s control in some ways.

 

[made in china]

Some of the ride down time has to do with overly conservative OSHA standards that are out of Disney’s control in some ways.

The ride safety regulations aren't the real issue.
I was looking at how the control systems are implemented on the rides (eye roll moment for my family) and I can see that the rides are capable of checking themselves. VFD motor controls, servo feedback, likely current monitoring on everything, time-to-service/complete trip monitoring, etc. The ride can detect issues long before a safety concern occurs. Issues could be excessive drag, out of tolerance parts, etc.
The ride system can halt a ride at any moment. OSHA (or whoever) likely has a requirement to document the incident and resolution, but it is up to the tech to quickly identify what is causing the system to fail. This is where you get "what you pay for" . A tech who is out of their league may try resetting the system or replacing something that wasn't the cause of the failure. Then, when the ride is tested, it continues to error. I know this because I saw the rides being tested, then failing, tested again, etc. Good techs will identify the problem right away, test the ride, document it as safe and reopen it.
Even as much as I pride myself as a good technician, I'd need to work on a ride for a while before I became an expert on it. At $35k a year I'd probably find a new job about the same time I became proficient.

 

[thomas998]

That's what I said, I think lol or your teasing me??
But seriously let's ask the question, why should Disney or any business change if they can sell an inferior product and we still by it??

General question

The reason they behave this way and will continue to is really down to them being a publicly traded company. Shareholder look for fast short-term results and that leads to the types of things Disney does with the parks. If they were a private company like the Mars candy company then it would be possible for the company to be run for long-term results without the short-term focus on quick dollars.

 

[LeighM]

Next year, my husband and I are going on a Disney cruise but spending the weekend before and after at a WDW resort. We used to be park commando people - go at rope drop, stay all day, and stay until closing. But the more often we go, we find ourselves spending less time in the parks and more time at the resort, Disney Springs, or the Boardwalk area. When we go next year, we aren't planning on going into a park unless they offer an After Hours event. It's easier for me to justify the cost of entering the park at 7pm and staying until closing with a near empty park with no wait in line than paying almost exactly the same for an entire day that's full of irritating, irritated people with long lines in the hot sun. The room rate increases bother me just because I'm frugal with money but it doesn't sting as much when I do compare it with other places I would like to go during the same time - Charleston, St. Augustine, Myrtle Beach, Siesta Key. Like others have said, the costs are increasing everywhere. Which I understand because everything is increasing - price of food, utilities, technology upgrades, etc. Someone has to ultimately pay for it all and that's the consumer. I've accepted that as long as I want to travel, I have to accept the costs, otherwise I just need to stay home or find someplace that still has yesterday's price. If I feel like I'm getting my money's worth then I'm happy. If I feel like it was money wasted then I won't repeat the experience. And that's how I feel about Disney's parks right now. I'm planning a trip in 2021-2022 for my 40th bday and their 50th when everything new is open. But I feel that going into a park next year is just a waste of my money. I would rather put that into new experiences like The Void at Disney Springs or trying new restaurants at the resorts.

 

[eliza61nyc]

The reason they behave this way and will continue to is really down to them being a publicly traded company. Shareholder look for fast short-term results and that leads to the types of things Disney does with the parks. If they were a private company like the Mars candy company then it would be possible for the company to be run for long-term results without the short-term focus on quick dollars.

absolutely, but I also do believe that even big publicly traded companies are influenced by the very thing those shareholders are looking for.
If the reason they behave that way comes down to profit and we want to effect change, remove the thing that influences them.

I just think it's really weird that we have this laundry list of stuff that is bad (which begs the question of how one had a good time) and we think it's going to magically get better by doing nothing but grumbling.
It's exactly like the saying about insanity. We want it to change, yet we do the same action over and over (give them our money) and we EXPECT it to do something different.