NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[jt04]

It's such a shame we can't have both. Why not have great show quality and a beautifully maintained park to go with it? (Well, I know why, but...)

The thing that irks me the most about MK right now is that while many building facades have been recently refurbed, there are still so many glaring "cosmetic infrastructure" issues that they are too numerous to count. Tomorrowland is a dilapidated disaster, the monorail station is looking rough, (as are the tribute to 1994 Walk around the World bricks), railings throughout the park are either significantly peeling or have 35 layers of crusty paint on them (rather than being stripped properly), and there seems to be layers of crud in out of reach (but certainly not out of sight) high and low corners everywhere.

Unfortunately these are the things that don't get talked about in NYT articles or corporate boardrooms. But when your park is a dump, guests certainly notice (as even non-Disney fans I know recently saw many of these things...)

SQS is huge, but to me, I think the general upkeep of the environment may actually be slightly more important (or at least of equal merit).

If we ever again enable a thriving free market in this country all your dreams will come true. If we do not, sorry about that.

 

[maxairmike]

Knowledge bomb.

Great first post and welcome. :wave:

Except for one glaring issue: where the Marvel royalties from Universal go. Hint; they don't come close to touching Parks and Resorts. That money is a completely separate pie, so to speak.

I see that misconception trotted out a lot lately. Yes, Universal selling lots of Marvel merch is good for Marvel and Disney as a whole, but has absolutely no financial bearing on P&R. Those Marvel royalties aren't funding P&R expansions/operations.

 

[John]

Except for one glaring issue: where the Marvel royalties from Universal go. Hint; they don't come close to touching Parks and Resorts. That money is a completely separate pie, so to speak.

I see that misconception trotted out a lot lately. Yes, Universal selling lots of Marvel merch is good for Marvel and Disney as a whole, but has absolutely no financial bearing on P&R. Those Marvel royalties aren't funding P&R expansions/operations.

Technically and directly you are correct, but I think indirectly they do help P&R. Corporate making money off of the Marvel deal would theoreticaly help P&R keep more of their own profits for said exspansion and refurbs. ie the bottom line. And isnt that what it is all about?

 

[maxairmike]

Borrowing from profitable divisions to prop up another is a fast track to serious issues more times than not. There are exceptions, but not very often (the $1+ billion rework of DCA for example, as I doubt that DLR, and DCA's cap-ex budget specifically had the "room" for it to be self-financed, even spread out over several years). While all the divisions count towards the larger bottom line and overall profitability and value to the shareholders, the pies shouldn't necessarily be shared.

 

[puntagordabob]

Before I say anything I am a Floridian and have not stepped into Universal since 2001 (pre 9-11 even!).... and I am of course always at Walt Disney World so I spend most of my $$ there....

Some fire up the rear ends of TDO will perhas finally make them loosen their pocketbooks substantially I imagine... Green Lighting things that would have never seen the light of day even a year ago! Good for us all....

That Being Said it is still unlikely that Ill be desiring to go to UNI anytime soon...but still I'd like to say: GO UNIVERSAL GO!!!!!!!

 

[HM Spectre]

Bingo. I don't blame Disney for resting on its laurels when it was king of the mountain with no competitors within sight.

I do. If a company is king of the mountain and want to keep it that way, they should always look to innovate, be creative and take chances on improving what is already a great product. By doing that, they’re always on the cutting edge and people are trying to copy them (and usually falling short), not the other way around. The way competitors are allowed to get back into the game is when Disney does exactly what you say it did – resting on its laurels and shooting for “good enough” instead of exceptional.

Think of how many things Disney could’ve done preventatively to stop Universal from chomping into their business: building new areas, keeping maintenance and show quality high, more innovation and technology, not letting Potter slip through their fingers in the first place, etc. The list is gigantic. The problem is that doing all those things requires money and risk, something that TDO is apparently allergic to. Instead, they’ve let the parks grow stale and fall into disrepair. Suddenly Universal is back in the game (yes, I understand Disney will always be bigger but taking business away from a family trip is bad news for the mouse). Go figure.

I’m hoping that competition from Universal will force TDO to do what should’ve been done from the beginning and that is to be creative, innovate, spend money to make money and take risks. That’s how a business grows and thrives. Honestly, part of me is afraid that they’ll just hunker down even more in the face of declining revenues and get leaner to counteract it (sounds like all the big improvements being done now have been forced from on high) but I also have a feeling that if that’s their response, it won’t be good enough for much longer if the current trend grows.

 

[monorail_silver]

I'm loving this thread! Also great to have '74 back - one of the few sane voices on this website. Thank you for your input as always.

On topic - Universal has been pushing the envelope ever since they started to design Potter. They took a big risk with what could arguably have been the last nail in the coffin for the resort if the area had failed. However, the quality of the area and it's contents won over guests, and they have been rewarded for it financially.

Now that Universal has a single owner, and is pitching about $150mil a year in resort funding for new attractions/refurbishments over the next 5 years, they are on the fast track to take even more business away from Disney.

 

[marni1971]

So a $450 million and $500 million expansion, as well as at least two new nighttime spectaculars, and a massive addition to Potter doesn't equal war? Got it.

Orlando is small fry compared to what's going to explode in California if all goes to plan from both sides.

Not to say what Uni has planned in Orlando in the medium term won't hit home either.

 

[WDW1974]

Are you using Disday's personal copyright rules? Because watch out, that copyright of yours may expire whenever it's convenient for 74 to use the phrase... :lookaroun

I only used his copyright rules for my book... SPIRIT DUST FOR DUMMIES... I copyrighted the title and all the names in the book... I was told I could... BTW, I also have a super secret contract that no one knows about, even the person who signed it... I will release a forgery to the SEC this week...

I will be just like Disney and folks like Mongello and Lange and Brigante etc ... so long as you write pro-Spirited posts all the time and spin my talking points, I won't come after you with my highly paid legal eagles. But step out of line and all bets are off (and so are some of your digits!):drevil:

 

[WDW1974]

But you'll spill all the details to Nikki Finke of Deadline Hollywood fame, right? She always gets the big insider scoops!

You don't wanna mess with Nikki. She is very scary ... and, yes, I do REALLY know her.

I bet she could make Iger cry.

I'll back you up, too. I've been to all of the actual countries in World Showcase except for China...that's on my to do list.

I've been to all WS countries except for Norway and Morocco (although I've been oh, so close to it!) I fully expect I'll visit both in the future as well as most of the WS nations I've already been to.

 

[WDW1974]

:zipit:

If only you could ...

Actually this would be only really true if they spent some time in a so-called "third world" country. Even those who understand this but have not done so really have no idea how fortunate they are to live in the US. It should almost be a requirement for citizenship.

So you believe that Americans need to visit places like the Sudan, Haiti and Yemen so they can appreciate that we aren't like that?

See, I think they should visit other civilized modern nations and see what they do better and worse than us and open their minds.

You're basically using the 'as long as it's better than Six Flag' method for our country and I find that ... well, typical.

Knowledge bomb.

Great first post and welcome. :wave:

Yes. Always good to open the arms and encourage the new poster who has loads of info and has just had a lucky meeting with a chatty Imagineer. ... That always ends well ...

 

[WDW1974]

It's such a shame we can't have both. Why not have great show quality and a beautifully maintained park to go with it? (Well, I know why, but...)

The thing that irks me the most about MK right now is that while many building facades have been recently refurbed, there are still so many glaring "cosmetic infrastructure" issues that they are too numerous to count. Tomorrowland is a dilapidated disaster, the monorail station is looking rough, (as are the tribute to 1994 Walk around the World bricks), railings throughout the park are either significantly peeling or have 35 layers of crusty paint on them (rather than being stripped properly), and there seems to be layers of crud in out of reach (but certainly not out of sight) high and low corners everywhere.

Unfortunately these are the things that don't get talked about in NYT articles or corporate boardrooms. But when your park is a dump, guests certainly notice (as even non-Disney fans I know recently saw many of these things...)

SQS is huge, but to me, I think the general upkeep of the environment may actually be slightly more important (or at least of equal merit).

I honestly was sickened by the sight of some of the buildings at DLP ... the resorts, in particular, are decrepit (Newport Bay Club looks like it was abandoned 10 years ago) ... but many of the signs of neglect are what I also see at WDW, with MK being the worst offender.

How many times have you looked at a door or railing or column at WDW that has what looks like 17 coats of paint because it never was stripped, coated and repainted? How many times have you looked at the pavement and seen cracks and splotches?

I don't understand the idea of building a beautiful place and then letting it go to hell. It always costs so much more to fix in the end vs. maintaining ...

DLP has some excuse with the debt issues (although TWDC has management control and could pump a billion dollars into it like DCA), but what excuses does WDW have?

 

[WDW1974]

If we ever again enable a thriving free market in this country all your dreams will come true. If we do not, sorry about that.

Please, take your pre-2008 era economic ideals and shove them up Jamie Dimon's backside.:hurl:

 

[WDW1974]

Before I say anything I am a Floridian and have not stepped into Universal since 2001 (pre 9-11 even!).... and I am of course always at Walt Disney World so I spend most of my $$ there....

Why, Bob?

Why?

Spread your wings ... fight the Pixie Dust addiction. It can be beaten. Really. I'm living proof!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I honestly was sickened by the sight of some of the buildings at DLP ... the resorts, in particular, are decrepit (Newport Bay Club looks like it was abandoned 10 years ago) ... but many of the signs of neglect are what I also see at WDW, with MK being the worst offender.

How many times have you looked at a door or railing or column at WDW that has what looks like 17 coats of paint because it never was stripped, coated and repainted? How many times have you looked at the pavement and seen cracks and splotches?

I don't understand the idea of building a beautiful place and then letting it go to hell. It always costs so much more to fix in the end vs. maintaining ...

DLP has some excuse with the debt issues (although TWDC has management control and could pump a billion dollars into it like DCA), but what excuses does WDW have?

Have they cleaned up the Peter Pan's Flight queue yet?

 

[misterID]

A) I don't think anyone has ever doubted that Imagineers have lots up their sleeves. The problem is they don't get the budget to build what they create, so they go work for Universal, who's in the business of approving big, technologically innovative attractions right now.

B) You're grossly over-simplifying the Disney/Marvel relationship. Also, I know a lot of cast members, and not one of them has ever referred to Universal as "the problem up the street."

Yes. Good post.

I still love the logic that when UNI makes huge strides in attendance and innovation, that money is still, somehow, going to Disney... What's REALLY funny is when they say that money they're stealthily taking from UNI right under everyones nose is going to fund expansion at WDW... EXPANSION! :lol:

 

[Captain Chaos]

I will be just like Disney and folks like Mongello and Lange and Brigante etc ... so long as you write pro-Spirited posts all the time and spin my talking points, I won't come after you with my highly paid legal eagles. But step out of line and all bets are off (and so are some of your digits!):drevil:

My super secret contract with Skip will prevent that from happening...

 

[menamechris]

A) I don't think anyone has ever doubted that Imagineers have lots up their sleeves. The problem is they don't get the budget to build what they create, so they go work for Universal, who's in the business of approving big, technologically innovative attractions right now.

B) You're grossly over-simplifying the Disney/Marvel relationship. Also, I know a lot of cast members, and not one of them has ever referred to Universal as "the problem up the street."

Exactly. Especially since many of them work at both resorts. I don't know why people think cast members have a non-compete agreement. They don't. I have a friend in entertainment who does Universal during the morning and early afternoon, then works nights at Disney. These people are just trying to make a living...

 

[I_heart_Tigger]

Exactly. Especially since many of them work at both resorts. I don't know why people think cast members have a non-compete agreement. They don't. I have a friend in entertainment who does Universal during the morning and early afternoon, then works nights at Disney. These people are just trying to make a living...

Very true. My old roomate was a diver for The Seas and at Sea World. I had a couple friends who worked in both parks and since we got discounts at US why would we complain about them :shrug:

 

[HiYa Pal]

A) I don't think anyone has ever doubted that Imagineers have lots up their sleeves. The problem is they don't get the budget to build what they create, so they go work for Universal, who's in the business of approving big, technologically innovative attractions right now.

B) You're grossly over-simplifying the Disney/Marvel relationship. Also, I know a lot of cast members, and not one of them has ever referred to Universal as "the problem up the street."

Yes, I over simplified it because not everyone has a MBA in accounting and understands the principles of more money for the corporation overall allows for more spending without hurting the bottom line. Do Marvel royalties directly pay for trash bags for MK, no, but that's not my point.

And the cast members that have called it the universal problem up the street I believe were all with the Disney Institute, so they have a slightly different view point than front of the house ride operators and performers.