NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[the.dreamfinder]

I agree, I don't think Disney (besides its media and how it could be used on Apple's devices), was of much concern to Jobs. That was simply not where his passion lay, and he had a big enough endeavor (Apple) to devot his attention to. Jobs's passion (or perhaps intellectual curiousity is a better term) in Pixar was because that was really a technology company when Steve first invested. But now, someone else is in charge of that 7.7% ownership of Disney (which is a staggering amount). Indeed, besides that fact that the stock is in trust, practically nothing is known about the trust.

I agree, no one knows anything about the trust. However, we do know a little bit about it. Laurene Jobs, Steve's Wife, worked on wall st. in the 80's as an asset manager and strategist. I would imagine the shares of Disney probably won't do more than collect dividends. I would imagine that if TWDC were going to h-e-l-l a la 1984 or 2004, those shares could be used to mobilize a save disney like campaign. So that could really help in making an effective campaign to change management if needed. Roy only held one percent of TWDC and was the nephew of Walt Disney, Imagine what 7.7 percent and John Lasseter & company could do. As 74 stated back on the James Cameron thread, John has all the power here.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Basically though I appreciate Disney going the extra mile to revolutionize the queue experience and I hope it succeeds.

I hope that by that you mean improved theming, not video games and jungle gyms. BTW whylightbulb, FJ queue is great. My hope is that you guys get to flesh out and extend the indoor portion for Hollywood and Japan.

 

[jt04]

I hope that by that you mean improved theming, not video games and jungle gyms. BTW whylightbulb, FJ queue is great. My hope is that you guys get to flesh out and extend the indoor portion for Hollywood and Japan.

I have no problems at all with applications as seen in SM and Pooh or even the HM which can be bypassed. Certainly better than tantrums.

But I think we will see the real beneficial change with NextGen tech.

 

[misterID]

There's a story that the Imagineers lobbied to close 20K for the real estate and plans they had for that area, and relied on some trickery to make the attraction seem unpopoular and needing significant repairs(skewed polling, anyone?). The story goes that they even sabotaged the ride when Ovitz tried to bring it back due to fan complaints. The Imagineers put Ovitz in the worst condition sub, had it rigged to give a rough and "jerky" ride and even threw buckets of water into the sub to make it look like there were leak problems with the subs. They got their way, 20K was shutdown, the space was cleared, but none of their proposals were ever greenlit.So their strategy basically got them nothing.

Anyway, that's the story I heard.

 

[ChrisFL]

Ah, a single subject finally. We had a long debate and insiders were involved etc. Went on and on and nobody would or could answer how 20 K was decided on when the theming was so wrong for the location.

One poster promised to get an answer at D23 but then silence.

All we have is the fact that Eisner shut down what was probably most people's favorite attraction or at least in the top 3 at the MK for no apparent reason.

There is a ton of mystery surrounding every aspect of 20K and even our most seasoned insiders avoid the subject like the plague. I just find that extremely compelling.

The last thing I want is to sidetrack this thread even if I am not clear what it is even about. LOL

However I am sure the subject will come up again at some point met by the same curious silence.

From what I've heard, 20K Leagues closed because of very low capacity, the boats were not steel like the Disneyland ones, I believe they were fiberglass mostly? and were not easily replaceable. There was also a major problem with handicap access.

Oh crap, I just realized I'm replying to jt, so this response might as well be talking to a wall.

 

[Cornballman]

Anyone els thinks jt just sits at home and has his little giggle while he continues to post his nonsense? How in the world can you continue to talk about anything universal when you haven't been there? You talk about spidermans queue when YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE!

 

[wm49rs]

NextGen is coming to the rescue. Cause the mouse puts the guest first.

Replace "guest" with "profit" and you're a little closer to the mark, right or wrong....

If you are a dog then yes it has been "decades".

Dog, cat, whatever. You haven't been in the better part of at least one decade. Perhaps personally experiencing that which you would either support or denigrate might help you cause a little.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

 

[ParentsOf4]

E.T. is kind of like their Small World, though. It was the first Universal attraction I ever rode. I was there the day before the park officially opened to the public and I thought it was amazing (it was about the only ride open) and UNI doesn't have a whole lot in terms of nostalgia classics like Disney does, so it would be a shame to see it go. But man, it does show its age.

I always think of E.T. as Universal's version of POTC or HM. All are based on 1960s (?) technology yet POTC and HM somehow seem a bit less antiquated. Maybe it's because POTC and HM are set in "old" times using technology that's newer than the setting while E.T. tells a story set in "modern" times using technology that's older than the setting. So the "old" technology fits in better on POTC and HM.

 

[flynnibus]

There's a story that the Imagineers lobbied to close 20K for the real estate and plans they had for that area, and relied on some trickery to make the attraction seem unpopoular and needing significant repairs(skewed polling, anyone?).

Not the imagineers - park ops. The ride was extremely expensive to operate and maintain
See - http://www.20kride.com/history.html

 

[flynnibus]

I am trying and I have gathered that...though he did address me directly in his post above (I feel so special! ) so had to defend myself there.

Using ignore.. there is nothing to see if they direct something at you.. and no one else sees it either when everyone plays along

 

[PhoenixSpirit]

By ignore I mean put him on the ignore list. Works wonders. Then we can all get back to actual discussion instead of being side tracked by the ravings of a madman who hasn't been in the parks for what I assume is decades.

I ignored him, simply couldn't stand the fact he was basically putting his fingers in his ears and refusing to listen *rolls eyes and sighs*
It is very strange only being able to read half a conversation though...

 

[Captain Chaos]

I ignored him, simply couldn't stand the fact he was basically putting his fingers in his ears and refusing to listen *rolls eyes and sighs*
It is very strange only being able to read half a conversation though...

I'll take reading half a conversation (the half that MAKES SENSE) than reading his nonsense...

 

[ChrisFL]

NextGen is coming to the rescue. Cause the mouse puts the guest first.

Where's the rolling on the floor lauging smiley? I missed this gem

 

[bubbles1812]

Not the imagineers - park ops. The ride was extremely expensive to operate and maintain
See - http://www.20kride.com/history.html

Interesting read. Though I don't think that article points to anything about 20K being "temporary" as jt suggested (not that I took him seriously to begin with) and that Walt had any grandiose plans for that area especially given how expensive it was to maintain. People don't put in super expensive temporary things just for kicks. If anything it looks like they were just following along with what DL had (still has?)

Though the guy was right about them eventually doing something with Pooh's Playful Spot. Sigh though, I think the MK is probably done for at least another 15 years after NFE opens.

Anyways, back on topic... I would be very sad to see E.T. go but I do think it needs some updating. When was the last time it was even refurbished?

 

[yeti]

(This may be off-topic since I don't know what the godforsaken topic of this sabotaged thread is supposed to be.)

I was happy with the model and intention of queues as established in the later part of the last century: that rather than being a series of switchbacks, a queue should introduce the attraction's storyline; that the attraction begins where the queue starts as opposed to when you board the ride.

Based on what I've so far of this "Next-Gen" (which I'm okay with so far...but not awfully excited about, either), I'm afraid this concept may potentially dissolve to the point that attention to detail will be secondary to sheer, cheap (albeit appropriately themed) amusement. I fear that a queue will no longer tell a story, it'll just be toys.

Of course, there's an extent to which subtle interactivity really works (the stepping stones on Indiana Jones come to mind, or the bell-ringing in the Everest queue). If they can integrate interactivity while still serving that fundamental purpose and maintaining a realistic atmosphere, I'll be happy. As long as these 'elements' help to keep you immersed, not distract you from being immersed. What I'm not a particular fan of is the way they're shoehorning in these "distracting games" into PotC, whose queue is already of stellar quality. It's superfluous, really.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Next Gen, especially Fastpass+ has the potential to be the single most divisive thing introduced in the parks. It is potentially a system that wildly favors the informed at worst, and resort guests at best. If the doomsday scenario plays out (Resort guests can reserve spots in line in advance while day guests can reserve day of) then this will truly be a guest services nightmare.

I couldn't care less how much technology is behind the Next Gen project. If it doesn't enhance my day, it's a waste to me. I can certainly see value in these types of reservation systems or quick service dining ordering in a "day of" approach, but aside from that I can't see how this would possibly be effective with the models I have seen.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

 

[WDW1974]

I respect your opinion but Staggs and Rasulo are speculated by many to be Iger's replacements, if Disney stays in house. Consider the following sources:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/robert-iger-disney-ceo-stepping-down-2015_n_1000472.html

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-CEO-Robert-Iger-Thomas-Staggs-248270

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201110/2691/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/mouse_house_switcheroo_bgvpCJl0qDTl1nvbGE8edM

Given that a new CEO won't take office for 3 years, I suggest that it's premature to start eliminating some of the leading candidates. However, if you have additional sources, I'd greatly appreciate reading them.

The fact that there are two men at high positions in the company who would like the job and have people who work for them that spin that scenario doesn't make it true.

My sources are from inside the company and in media circles. People I know and respect. They know what's going on.

Regarding a 5th Gate, I thought I was fairly clear that I don't see this as happening in the near feature. Instead, I was hoping that Disney might use the transition to announce something, especially since it’s now 14 years (and counting) since WDW's last major expansion. Sorry if I was obtuse. We who post on this site very much care about the state of the theme parks but I submit that the overwhelming majority of WDW guests simply don't pay attention. Nor do they pay attention to whether DHS or DAK (for example) have room for expansion. The operational state of the Yeti aside, I think EE is great. However, it received about a 15 second spot in my local news when it opened. (I remember being extremely disappointed by the lack of coverage.) Opening a 5th Gate will grab national headlines. Even the casual WDW vacationer is going to notice. I am hoping we get a 5th Gate before I die.

WDW doesn't need a fifth theme park, either now or ever. It has four already that can grow and change and should be timeless. I don't get the whole idea of bigger being better. WDW's quality has gone down in direct correlation with its growth. Major expansions can be done in the existing parks for the next 50 years.

I respectfully disagree with you on the eight-and-under crowd strategy. People's vacation habits are set at a young age. Young children strongly influence their parent's vacations habits. Disney's current marketing targets that demographic. To generalize, WDW is where young children want to go. Universal has created a large niche with the 10-to-17 crowd but, IMHO, Universal is still, at best, a 2-day excursion out of most American's week vacation to Orlando. UO simply lacks the scope and grandeur to keep a family entertained for a week. WDW has that grandeur.

I stand by my statement. Young children grow. And families come in many shapes, sizes and ages. Catering to simply young children and their parents is a recipe for long term disaster.

As to the grandeur of WDW ... well, maybe 25 years ago you could argue that ... but today?!?

IMHO, WWOHP has stolen business from WDW. However, given WDW's attendance over the last 10 years, I politely suggest that a poor economy has taken a bigger bite out of WDW attendance than WWOHP. For example, WDW was much more severely impacted by the post 9/11 economy than it was by the opening of WWOHP. Don’t get me wrong, I think WWOHP is the best "land" in all Orlando. It certainly has turned around UO. However, given that this thread is titled, NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney", it does not appear to me that UO has seriously damaged WDW's long-term revenue stream. Fundamentally, I don't believe UO ever will until it figures out a way to appeal more strongly to the small child crowd.

Please understand that I really enjoy UO and think it has 3 of the best 5 attractions in Orlando (FJ, Spiderman, Mummy). I just don't think it presents a significant risk to WDW's dominance at this time.

UNI has damaged WDW by simply taking more guests' money. The reality is people have a finite amount of time and money to spend on vacations (unless they are from the UK!) ... and every dollar spent at UNI is one that can't be spent at WDW. I don't need to point out how UNI's attendance has skyrocketed and their guest spend as well.

 

[WDW1974]

Universal better get busy because I am hearing they no longer have the 'premiere' theme park attraction in the world as many have claimed. LMAO!

Nope, that honor now belongs to Radiator Springs Racers brought to you by the team of Iger & Lasseter and sponsored by Pixar's classic franchise Cars!

Move over Mr Potter or get run over by a mouse.

Based on what?

Oh and RSRs was brought to you by Bob Weis, Tom Morris and a team of incredibly talented individuals ... John Lasseter had some input, but not anything overly significant. Bob Iger did not. He simply is the big boss. But you do know that.